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Deep Madness» Forums » General

Subject: A very successful KS campaign--I'm so glad I missed it. rss

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Robert Haddon
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First off, congratulations to Diemension Games and the backers; this was a phenomenal success for a rookie game company and designer. And oh man, those minis and the artwork are simply gorgeous! Top notch stuff.

This was a really tough call for me. I pledged, I cancelled, I pledged again, I cancelled again. That went on for most of the month, but eventually I decided the game wasn't for me and I stuck to my decision. This is a significant victory for me because I am totally weak willed when it comes to miniatures games.

Here's what eventually put me off of DM for good (at least until retail, which I am certain is going to be a LOT FARTHER away than DG's estimates):

* Too many KSE that are content related. I believe KSE should be of minimal game content and more upgrade type stuff (plastic tokens, doorways, etc). A few KSE Heroes/Bosses are fine, but I think DM went overboard. KSEs to me are like the hard sales pitch of a used car dealer and it seems to indicate that the company doesn't care so much about the long-term viability of their product at retail.
* So many beautiful minis, I wanted them so badly! However, I have literally many hundreds of equally nice minis from many other KS campaigns in various stages of production headed my way, not to mention the dozens sitting on my hobby table that still need paint.
* The game play felt too shallow to me and the mechanics didn't fit the theme as well as I would have liked (i.e. spending sanity to roll again struck me as out of place). The game play videos that came out only confirmed this for me.
* As a result of the points above, buying this game would have been just for the minis. Approximately 0.60USD for minis of this apparent quality is fantastic, but I don't need them and they are most likely three years away.
* This is DG's first time at bat. I think my money will be better spent elsewhere for now, but I will definitely be interested in their next projects.


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Flavio Santos
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Man, I made my pledge with only 5 minutes left. I cancelled it with 3 minutes left. I made it again with less than a minute to go.

Credit card already took the hit. Not sure if I made the right call, but I will not ask for a refund.
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Mike Morales
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I'm curious why you think they won't meet that deadline? From what I've seen they have things pretty much planned out and all that is needed is money and production which is being done by ludo fact. They also gave themselves 1 year which is longer than the typical 6-8 month estimation that most of these types of games give. Also not sure why you think its still to late to pledge for this. late pledges is a thing so you can technically still get in on the kickstarter.
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Lol to O.P. I am almost there with you. KS has been so cool for games, but it has melted my credit card and stuffed my house. I've sworn that after the Forbidden Fortress, I'm done for a long, long time. (It'll probably last a week...)
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Robert Haddon
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Desferous wrote:
I've sworn that after the Forbidden Fortress, I'm done for a long, long time. (It'll probably last a week...)

Best of luck with that! For me, I'm saying after KD:M I'm DONE. But there's Rise of Moloch from CMON on its way. No no no no!
 
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Robert Haddon
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Mrdabba wrote:
I'm curious why you think they won't meet that deadline?


You make some good points and perhaps DG will be closer to their mark then I'm assuming. Nevertheless, I'm certain there will be significant delays. Even the veterans of this business consistently miss, and this is DG's first at bat.

Take CMON for example. 24 projects created! Their latest ones are all late. Masmorra is due now but current estimates are Q1 2017. Rum & Bones is looking pretty close (due in Jan), but it doesn't look like they will wrap up before Chinese New Year.

It seems that really successful campaigns, with lots of unlocked SGs and optional buys, are a difficult target to hit, even by the veterans.
 
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Anders Pedersen
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Sorry, but I don't get the point of this thread.
Are you looking for other people who have dropped out of the campaign and agree with you, or are you wanting a discussion about whether you are right or wrong?
Just curious.

After going back and forth a lot, I ended up backing for the base game alone. There is a lot of content so I can probably sell it for about the same price I paid, should it not live up to my expectations. And I don't mind if they end up getting delayed with production. Plenty of unplayed games in the closet already.
But as another poster already mentioned, they have a fairly good marging to work within already, so I am not really worried.
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Freelance Police
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Pretty much agreeing with OP. If DM's around again, I'll definitely check out their campaign.

Beware of FOMO. You can still skip high-risk KS and have too many games to play, and too many miniatures to paint. Between KS (including miniature-only ones), eBay flash sales, the OLGS, and flea markets, I may be accumulating 1K of miniatures per year. Oh, and Reaper Bones IV miniature KS will be starting in a few months.

Of course, I say this already received Cthulhu Wars and two RAFM Cthulhu KS, plus the Grenadier Cthulhu miniatures I already own. Seems that, with Lobotomy, the Others, Cthulhu Wars, and Deep Madness, we have plenty of tentacled nightmare fuel to choose from -- Kingdom Death's add-ons should look interesting.

Myself, I'll congratulate Diemensional Games when they fulfill the campaign! whistle That's the hard part of a KS.
 
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Freelance Police
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Mrdabba wrote:
I'm curious why you think they won't meet that deadline? From what I've seen they have things pretty much planned out and all that is needed is money and production which is being done by ludo fact. They also gave themselves 1 year which is longer than the typical 6-8 month estimation that most of these types of games give. Also not sure why you think its still to late to pledge for this. late pledges is a thing so you can technically still get in on the kickstarter.


Most KS don't make their deadlines. The main reason is that it's kinda hard to set one when you don't know the scope of the project, and, with SG's you don't know the scope of your project until the funding campaign has ended. But KS *requires* you to state a due date *before* the project starts. It's basically a Catch-22 because SG's, while not required by KS, are expected by backers.

On top of this, this is a First Created project. Production by Ludo Fact, imo, is pretty minor. Cthulhu Wars used Panda Manufacturing, one of the leading boardgame design companies, and was two years late.

Dunno about late pledges.
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Brian C
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I applaud anyone who was able to say no to the exclusives -- and hope all the backers end up with a great game.
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Robert Haddon
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dbc- wrote:
Sorry, but I don't get the point of this thread.
Are you looking for other people who have dropped out of the campaign and agree with you, or are you wanting a discussion about whether you are right or wrong?
Just curious.


There's really no point at all. It was a slow morning at work and I just felt like talking about my hobby. I was amused to learn that I wasn't the only one who waffled back and forth though.
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Robert Haddon
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Sam and Max wrote:
Oh, and Reaper Bones IV miniature KS will be starting in a few months.


Holy crap I did not need to know about that. Ugh...
 
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You may call me
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Friedmutant wrote:
I was amused to learn that I wasn't the only one who waffled back and forth though.

I think this KS may have had a lot more "wafflers" than usual (me included) because on the surface the game looks amazing but when analyzed the gameplay is very generic and the implementation of the theme lacking, yet the value and quality of sculpts was very enticing.
 
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Paul Liolio
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I thought this looked cool too... almost went in on it, but got confused and irritated by all the content.

In the end, I can't stand these tactics. This isn't "kick starting". This is micro-transaction psychological warfare.
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Elijah
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I was in but backed out.

Tons of boardporn but to me, the core gameplay seems hollow.
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Craig O'Connor
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One of my friends pointed (ok, shoved) me in the direction of this game a few months before it started. I made a note. I went through all the information offered at the start of the campaign, and held off.

I am heavily sceptical of these CMON style kickstarters, mainly because of the first Zombicide, which I bought (at retail) and absolutely despised.

I think this kind of stretch goal/KS Exclusive model is really really bad business sense. With so many extras that are only available at the campaign, it makes the game worthless at retail level.

Anyhow, I was interested in this because of the general Lovecraftian theme, but the gameplay seemed kinda standard. Flipping tiles during the game seemed a bit fiddly to me (especially if there are gonna be mini's/tokens on the tile being flipped) and overall, I had an issue with the sculpts of the models. Not that I don't think they look detailed or anything, they do, but its a similar issue I had with the sculpts for the Others: Seven Sins. They're just too... cartoony, for me.

Then there's the bonus characters. I know a lot of people like nods to other, existing franchises, but here it goes beyond homage. That final Dead Space character was like, we aren't even trying any more, we're just going to rip off characters from other franchises.

Then again, I'm ridiculously - fanatically - picky about such things.
 
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I agree with many of the reasons of the OP. I love miniatures and games with heavy theme, but I too have many games of this nature already. My main reason for not backing was the fact that there were SOOOOOO many miniatures and bits, and as a new company I doubt they will deliver anywhere near their projection.

I learned my lesson with other Kickstarters that have as much plastic to produce, namely Shadows of Brimstone. Hell, I am still waiting to receive stuff from that and it's going into the THIRD YEAR since it's kickstarter!!!

Sadly, I've lost confidence in many of these kickstarters.
 
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Freelance Police
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dbc- wrote:
Are you looking for other people who have dropped out of the campaign and agree with you, or are you wanting a discussion about whether you are right or wrong?


Well, since he paints, he's *obviously* trying to get his paint queue under control! laugh

Even without the "First Created" projects, you're gonna be busy:
* Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress: 50+ miniatures.
* Mythic Battles: Pantheon: 100+ miniatures.
* Kingdom Death: Monster : 25+ miniatures (counts as 200+ of painting).
* Manor House Workshop : 100+ pieces (counts as 25+ with airbrush).
* Tombstone : 25+ miniatures (resin, so counts as 50+ of painting).
* Rise of Moloch : 100+ miniatures.
* Reaper Miniatures Bones IV : 150+ miniatures (not including add-ons).

Ain't gonna help the wallet, either! laugh
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Erik Andersson
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I grabbed an EB the first day. Canceled it. Pledged $1 so I could pledge later. Canceled that $1 and told myself "I don´t need another game like this". Yesterday I sniped an EB. So now I am in.

I did the same thing with Vampire Hunters, almost identical. Got an EB, dropped it, got another one the last day (slayer pledge).



 
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Kirk Nelson
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Eric, I think you got my EB! thumbsup

After MUCH internal debating I finally dropped to the $1 pledge to see if I was more in the mood for another dungeon crawler in the spring. I should have a better idea of where Diemension Games is with the project at that point. Plus, after the shipping fiasco I got force fed by Steamforged, it might be better to see what they end up charging.

Anyway, this game looks fun to me and if the minis come in close to what is shown it would look incredible on the table.

I hope Diemension comes through and provides all of the backers a game they are happy with and as few headaches as possible. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from Project:Elite though, in the end, the game plays great.
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Robert Haddon
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Sam and Max wrote:
dbc- wrote:
Are you looking for other people who have dropped out of the campaign and agree with you, or are you wanting a discussion about whether you are right or wrong?


Well, since he paints, he's *obviously* trying to get his paint queue under control! laugh


There is a lot of truth to that statement.

Anyway, I didn't intend to tear DM apart. Truly, I hope it turns out great and all the backers love it. I'm still in for $1, so it could still suck me in and take my money, but I doubt it. I need to stay strong! I like this new me that can say no miniatures games.
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Goeshi
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Friedmutant wrote:
spending sanity to roll again struck me as out of place


Interesting, I thought this mechanic made loads of sense. The investigators are straining themselves mentally in order to focus. If they push too hard they risk that strain turning to madness. I like it. It fits.

I do agree that a lot of the rest of this game looks pretty derivitatve. Having said that it pulls together so much of what I love that I couldn't be happier to have backed it.
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James J

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Definitely the riskiest KS I've ever backed, IMHO, but I kept my original EB pledge. Unlike the OP, I like exclusives--particularly for a new, risky venture like this one--as they hedge my risk. It makes the game more attractive on the secondary market if it turns out I don't enjoy it.

Gameplay apes several other games I enjoy, but I can't say conclusively whether it will all gel into a coherent whole. It could very well be a mess.

As for timelines, who cares? Completely immaterial as long as it doesn't take years or hint that things may never get completed at all. It's funny to see people worry about a game being late...and then mention the huge backlog of games they already own (and/or other KS games already on their way). LOL. And as for exclusives hurting support, I haven't noticed that much with similar large campaigns. If they are generating millions up front, they've probably front-loaded all the support and expansions I could want. I don't need a module coming out a year later. It may discourage latecomers, but that's why you learn to browse KS every couple of weeks. Only took missing Arcadia Quest to teach me that. Bought and enjoyed the retail box, but now I regularly do my homework and don't miss out on crazy good deals.
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Juha M
Finland
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To me this is probably the game that makes me quit, and sell, my Zombicide: Black Plague.
The game play is hugely influenced by that game, but it also has some innovative aspects, and added monster variety, that other games in this genre seem to be lacking.
Also the release date is a generous 1 year, and the local connections to manufacturers, so I'm hopeful that they will not be so late.
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J Bailey

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Could not pass up $90 for 163 minis this awesome, I'd feel like I came out on top even if I threw 100% of the rest of the game into the trash once I got it.
 
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