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Subject: Loving and Protecting students, the new hate crime! rss

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Ben Foy
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Educators: tomorrow pls show your muslim, black, latino, jewish, disabled, or just non-white St's, that you love them and will protect them!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/social-media-...

The wording could be improved but the idea of reassuring kids who might be stressed out over the election is above reproach right? Wrong!

Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.

BTW, a petition has been put forth to fire the superintendent over that tweet.

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M. S.
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“All messages like this do is pit students against each other and further divide them. National leaders, from both parties, have called for unity after the election. Messages like this do the exact opposite."

Let's see how far Trump gets with mandatory military service.
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BFoy wrote:
Quote:
Educators: tomorrow pls show your muslim, black, latino, jewish, disabled, or just non-white St's, that you love them and will protect them!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/social-media-...

The wording could be improved but the idea of reassuring kids who might be stressed out over the election is above reproach right? Wrong!

Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.

BTW, a petition has been put forth to fire the superintendent over that tweet.



The fact there is a petition shows how far we have to go. And the comments of those like Salling shows how degraded the GOP has become
 
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William Boykin
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It's a great example of why saying "All lives matter" is just a bait and switch to avoid discussing the fact that some people face more discrimination and bigotry because of their skin color, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation.

"All Lives Matter- YOU'RE the racist!!" is going to be the password for Trumpists sentinels, ever on the watch against the evils of insidious Political Correctness, the dark tendrils of which might actually cause some of them to show empathy for others....

Darilian
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Drew
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BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.
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Drew1365 wrote:
BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.


Actually the GOP reaction to this proves it to be quite true. But why let facts get in the way. Worked so far.

But thanks for the example of what passes for a logical argument on your side of the aisle
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Junior McSpiffy
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Kumitedad wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.


Actually the GOP reaction to this proves it to be quite true. But why let facts get in the way. Worked so far.

But thanks for the example of what passes for a logical argument on your side of the aisle


I think there are two different issues. The reaction I am seeing to stuff like this isn't "Racism doesn't exist." It's "Why are we constantly coddling kids?" The message is that these kids are fragile. And I would hope they aren't. Racism and prejudice DO exist. So why wasn't the message "Keep an extra vigilant eye out for kids who may be bullying other students over the results?" Why was it "Assume children are distraught and find every unique subgroup of distraught child and remind them how distraught they must feel?"

This is not "You are making things up if you see racism." This is "Don't expect midterms to be cancelled.

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Guido Van Horn
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So, I'm an educator in a school with a vast majority of Hispanic students. I see 500+ unique students a week. I didn't see one kid who seemed distraught over the election, a few kids mentioned it, a few people asked who I voted for.

The only reason I'd imagine seeing a kid distraught is if they were taught that from a parent. Most kids don't give two farts about the election. Life goes on as normal.

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Stephen Rost
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
So, I'm an educator in a school with a vast majority of Hispanic students. I see 500+ unique students a week. I didn't see one kid who seemed distraught over the election, a few kids mentioned it, a few people asked who I voted for.

The only reason I'd imagine seeing a kid distraught is if they were taught that from a parent. Most kids don't give two farts about the election. Life goes on as normal.



What do you tell those students who ask how you voted?
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GameCrossing wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.


Actually the GOP reaction to this proves it to be quite true. But why let facts get in the way. Worked so far.

But thanks for the example of what passes for a logical argument on your side of the aisle


I think there are two different issues. The reaction I am seeing to stuff like this isn't "Racism doesn't exist." It's "Why are we constantly coddling kids?" The message is that these kids are fragile. And I would hope they aren't. Racism and prejudice DO exist. So why wasn't the message "Keep an extra vigilant eye out for kids who may be bullying other students over the results?" Why was it "Assume children are distraught and find every unique subgroup of distraught child and remind them how distraught they must feel?"

This is not "You are making things up if you see racism." This is "Don't expect midterms to be cancelled.



I know teachers who had to deal with distraught kids. And we have seen the news stories like the Latino kids being taunted with chants of "build the wall" at school. And I know from that teacher I know of the taunting that is going on. The administrator in the story was trying to be proactive and cared about the knees. You see kids like this feel threatened not because they are fragile, its because of the new atmosphere of hate we are enduring.

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.
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Kelsey Rinella
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Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.
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Jake
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rinelk wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.

It has nothing to do with Gamecrossing himself, it's just that he disagrees with Kumitedad.
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rinelk wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.


The possibility of spoiling kids? I have heard from a teacher who said that when she was trying to reassure a latino student about the results of the election a white student came up and asked if the latino was even born here. That teacher was shocked as she had never run into a situation like that in her school. This is not coddling or spoiling this is dealing with a situation that they have been given. To use the "mid terms will not be cancelled" as an equivalent is absurd and unfeeling. to be polite
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Kelsey Rinella
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Kumitedad wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.


The possibility of spoiling kids? I have heard from a teacher who said that when she was trying to reassure a latino student about the results of the election a white student came up and asked if the latino was even born here. That teacher was shocked as she had never run into a situation like that in her school. This is not coddling or spoiling this is dealing with a situation that they have been given. To use the "mid terms will not be cancelled" as an equivalent is absurd and unfeeling. to be polite


Meh--I don't usually argue about words. Use them to mean whatever you like, and I'm happy to bring my use in accordance with your and focus on substance. My point was just that I had made an argument which sounded like a categorical claim that it was impossible to be too nice to children. I wanted to point out that I did not mean it to go so far.

But, to the extent that context might be mattering to you, I would be very sympathetic if you were thinking of the guy with the otherwise identical avatar who has Gandalf rather than a pawn in the middle. He does not seem generally sympathetic or willing to see other sides. GameCrossing is exemplary in that regard, though. And that seems to have a salutary effect on the conservatives with whom he interacts, if what he's seeing is lots of people who are genuinely aware of the need for extra vigilance to prevent bullying, but don't want to shop anxiety to anyone who isn't already feeling it.

GameCrossing doesn't want children to feel like they need to be fragile to meet adult expectations. I think most of us have had at least one experience of someone clearly assuming we'd be emotionally vulnerable at a time when we sort of oblivious and just wanted to play with our legos. I don't know that's it's the sort of big deal that would warrant anyone bothering to write about how terrible it is that we're coddling children, but I understand the view that some kids will take away the message that they're supposed to be emotionally fragile, and that this will make them either insincere or will cultivate that fragility. Exactly how to best raise emotionally robust adults is an empirical matter, and I'm not quite so arrogant that I dismiss views like that.
 
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T. Nomad
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
So, I'm an educator in a school with a vast majority of Hispanic students. I see 500+ unique students a week. I didn't see one kid who seemed distraught over the election, a few kids mentioned it, a few people asked who I voted for.

And way over here in Korea, I have had a whole semester of kids worried about what a Trump victory means for the US support of their country. They'll all feel better now that he's backpedalled on that one, too.

A lot has been written this week of the left's contempt for voters. But in 3 days of being POTUS-elect, Mr. Trump has shown himself to be unparalleled in that regard: 'Thanks for your votes, suckers. Watch me do none of the things I promised you.'
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Blue Mountain
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They can't protect students who will be on a bus to the southern border within the next 12 months.
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Kumitedad wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.


Actually the GOP reaction to this proves it to be quite true. But why let facts get in the way. Worked so far.

But thanks for the example of what passes for a logical argument on your side of the aisle


I think there are two different issues. The reaction I am seeing to stuff like this isn't "Racism doesn't exist." It's "Why are we constantly coddling kids?" The message is that these kids are fragile. And I would hope they aren't. Racism and prejudice DO exist. So why wasn't the message "Keep an extra vigilant eye out for kids who may be bullying other students over the results?" Why was it "Assume children are distraught and find every unique subgroup of distraught child and remind them how distraught they must feel?"

This is not "You are making things up if you see racism." This is "Don't expect midterms to be cancelled.



I know teachers who had to deal with distraught kids. And we have seen the news stories like the Latino kids being taunted with chants of "build the wall" at school. And I know from that teacher I know of the taunting that is going on. The administrator in the story was trying to be proactive and cared about the knees. You see kids like this feel threatened not because they are fragile, its because of the new atmosphere of hate we are enduring.

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


More hateful? What the world are you watching? There are a seemingly unending number of resources to support minorities, the acronym brigade, religious minorities... they are present in greater numbers than ever. People HAVE the tools, and those tools exist because the world is being more open and compassionate, as well as more aware of the problems people face.

So I guess my question is two-fold:
1) Why aren't we focusing on disciplining the miscreants?
2) Why are we encouraging and enabling victims to be fragile?

The sentiment was great. It absolutely was. But instead of saying that they should be extra vigilant about actually protecting people from violence, bullying, etc., his comment was "Assume every single minority of any sort has been traumatized and treat them as such." It came with the best of intentions, but it shows how little he really thinks of those kids.

Standing up to the bullies and the violent is FAR more empowering than treating them like something may be wrong with them if they aren't afraid.

Also, teenage kids with their not-fully-developed brains flooded with hormones are assholes just looking for an excuse to asshole. Doesn't excuse it. But it does explain it.
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Junior McSpiffy
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Kumitedad wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.


The possibility of spoiling kids? I have heard from a teacher who said that when she was trying to reassure a latino student about the results of the election a white student came up and asked if the latino was even born here. That teacher was shocked as she had never run into a situation like that in her school. This is not coddling or spoiling this is dealing with a situation that they have been given. To use the "mid terms will not be cancelled" as an equivalent is absurd and unfeeling. to be polite


How did that teacher handle that? I would hope that the kid who said what he did got serious discipline for it. And if the Latino in question saw the teacher getting that kid to the vice principal's office by their ear, that kid would have felt infinitely more secure than a mere hand-pat and a "there there." If the teacher did nothing except drop the jaw and mumble a "Well, I never..." then the kid learned that all the empathy in the world amounts to nothing... thanks, allies!

And I am sure you know, but kids in Yale... the best and brightest... had professors suspending mid-terms because they couldn't cope with not being winners. So it's not exactly out of the discussion.

The solution is not to pre-victimize them. The solution is to take those who actually do and say vile things and hold them as accountable as can be done. THAT is what compassion looks like.


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Sean Lynch
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tommynomad wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
So, I'm an educator in a school with a vast majority of Hispanic students. I see 500+ unique students a week. I didn't see one kid who seemed distraught over the election, a few kids mentioned it, a few people asked who I voted for.

And way over here in Korea, I have had a whole semester of kids worried about what a Trump victory means for the US support of their country. They'll all feel better now that he's backpedalled on that one, too.

A lot has been written this week of the left's contempt for voters. But in 3 days of being POTUS-elect, Mr. Trump has shown himself to be unparalleled in that regard: 'Thanks for your votes, suckers. Watch me do none of the things I promised you.'


I find this attitude funny and pretty common from more left-leaning folks. Him walking back shows that he is willing to compromise on issues important to liberals - isn't that exactly what one would want from a president? Instead he gets crap from liberals for doing so, to the point where it almost feels like they want him to act like a tyrant to justify their recent fear mongering.

By the way, wasn't saying you necessarily felt that way, just that it is a pretty common attitude lately.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

BTW, we get it, you are an unfeeling schmuck. No need to emphasize it.


Dude--Gamecrossing? Seriously? I mean, I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion that there's a sensible version of the complaint that people were being too nice to children. But that's not that out there. I mean "I'm coddling them because they're kids, and both need and deserve care" seems like a good answer to me, but I recognize the possibility of spoiling kids.

There's another user with a yellow road sign avatar--might you be thinking of him? Because I could totally see your point if you're getting them confused.


The possibility of spoiling kids? I have heard from a teacher who said that when she was trying to reassure a latino student about the results of the election a white student came up and asked if the latino was even born here. That teacher was shocked as she had never run into a situation like that in her school. This is not coddling or spoiling this is dealing with a situation that they have been given. To use the "mid terms will not be cancelled" as an equivalent is absurd and unfeeling. to be polite


How did that teacher handle that? I would hope that the kid who said what he did got serious discipline for it. And if the Latino in question saw the teacher getting that kid to the vice principal's office by their ear, that kid would have felt infinitely more secure than a mere hand-pat and a "there there." If the teacher did nothing except drop the jaw and mumble a "Well, I never..." then the kid learned that all the empathy in the world amounts to nothing... thanks, allies!

And I am sure you know, but kids in Yale... the best and brightest... had professors suspending mid-terms because they couldn't cope with not being winners. So it's not exactly out of the discussion.

The solution is not to pre-victimize them. The solution is to take those who actually do and say vile things and hold them as accountable as can be done. THAT is what compassion looks like.




It was not that they could not copy with "not being winner" it was probably the shock of having an openly bigoted candidate winning the Presidency. You seem to be making a habit of dismissing the fears of others like this exchange from another thread

Quote:
"I've been wondering a lot about what practical things we can do to prepare for the terrible things that may be coming in the future.

(I know, a bunch of you are going to say that this stuff will never happen - but isn't it better to be prepared?)

One of the dangers is that people will be either attacked by hate groups, or unreasonably targeted by police.

I have no idea if this is feasible, but it seems like one thing we can do is to try to create community communication and safety nets; setting up contact info and "phone chains" of people willing to stand up for their neighbors, so that a group of close-by people who can come to protect (or at the very least be witnesses) can be within reach of a single call or text. The targeted family makes a call to one person, who then starts calling everyone else, getting as many people as possible to physically get there and support them, record any wrongdoings, or whatever is needed. There's strength in unity. You can haul away one "undesirable" without raising too much notice, but if their whole neighborhood is standing at their side, it might be a lot harder.

Does this sound like a good idea? Is this feasible? Are there ways to do it without exposing the members to too much harm from having their contact info be known?


And your response was this
Quote:
Wow. I had no idea that the fearmongering had its hooks in this deep.



News for you, he have elected a President that is openly hostile to citizens who are Muslim, and has been targeting Latinos, both born here and undocumented. And has as his presumptive Chief of Staff who targets immigrants for hate campaigns.


Some folks actually want to be proactive about facing hate. Something you seem be somewhat dismissive of. To repeat a phrase I have heard elsewhere. "It is comforting to be able to be able to ignore the bigotries of a President that will not affect us". Well some folks chose not to be comforted. Imagine that
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
Standing up to the bullies and the violent is FAR more empowering than treating them like something may be wrong with them if they aren't afraid.


Were you bullied as a child?
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Kumitedad wrote:

Some folks actually want to be proactive about facing hate.


Let me ask you again: this teacher in your anecdote, when the student was openly racist in her presence, how did she respond? If it was just with further hand-patting, then her attempted empathy did more harm than good. It would be far more inactive than proactive.

And yes, I still say that assuming the worst will be coming is fearmongering. When the entire campaign was run not on her own issues but on the premise of "He will steal your freedoms," then it isn't surprising to see people thinking "Oh no, everything will fall apart." The issues for Hillary were 1) Trump will ruin everything, 2) Hillary has a vagina, and 3) whatever her actual issues were which we would have to look up online because nobody ever talked about anything but #1 and #2. Fearmongering was the heart of the campaign, or at least the only part of her message that people grasped onto. And now you can't see past it.
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Junior McSpiffy
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rinelk wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Standing up to the bullies and the violent is FAR more empowering than treating them like something may be wrong with them if they aren't afraid.


Were you bullied as a child?


Yes I was. I have a birthmark on the side of my face and it* made me a target for bullies. One guy I remember in particular would sneak up behind me in every social studies class we had a filmstrip or video presentation and when the lights were out, he would repeatedly slap me in the back of the head. I had a couple of people tell me how horrible they felt it was that he did that over and over. But what never happened was anyone stepping up to actually make it stop. Not teachers, not friends, not admiinstrators. I had people patting my hand over how badly I got treated, and the bullying never stopped.

Maybe if all my friends wore safety pins, the jock in class would have stopped slapping the back of my head. What do YOU think?











* And my martyr complex over it, if I want to own my own issues
 
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Kelsey Rinella
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GameCrossing wrote:
rinelk wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Standing up to the bullies and the violent is FAR more empowering than treating them like something may be wrong with them if they aren't afraid.


Were you bullied as a child?


Yes I was. I have a birthmark on the side of my face and it* made me a target for bullies. One guy I remember in particular would sneak up behind me in every social studies class we had a filmstrip or video presentation and when the lights were out, he would repeatedly slap me in the back of the head. I had a couple of people tell me how horrible they felt it was that he did that over and over. But what never happened was anyone stepping up to actually make it stop.


So, this is my problem with your proposal--we have never cared enough to arrange that there will be no opportunity to attack other kids when there are no authorities watching. Maybe it's genuinely impossible. But think about what standing up to that bully would have meant for you: very likely, by the time the teacher saw you fighting, it would be too late for them to see that he started it, and you'd already have been hit a bunch more. So you both get sent to the office for fighting, and since no one can confirm how it started, you get equal punishments, perhaps detention. Which is just super awesome, because detention happens after school, when there are even fewer authorities around and more opportunity for him to find a secluded place to beat the crap out of you for having the temerity to get him in trouble.

And what then? Does it just stop, or does he keep thinking of you as his personal aggression outlet for the rest of the year? Here's hoping you don't ride the same bus!

Now imagine all those concerns combined with an election which gives you reason to think that this one bully has a bunch of compatriots. So even if you don't ride HIS bus, there's going to be several people on your bus who think like he does, and the other people on it are less likely to help. What if there's just one teacher in the school who agrees with those kids, and doesn't actually do anything, but just turns a blind eye and is more likely to dismiss anything as just "boys being boys"?

So, owning my own issues back at you, when the system doesn't prevent stuff like this, as a kid, you learn that this is what they want. They built the system like this because this is the outcome they were going for. They want kids to get bullied sometimes, because they want children to learn self-reliance. So your principal, your teachers--the collective power of their approval is behind every fist. And they're generally caring, thoughtful (ish) people when you're face-to-face with them. But if you don't learn self-reliance? They don't know. They're maybe hoping you'll put up a fight, and your bullies will be few and cowardly enough to stop. But if not, they'll never know. You'll just keep getting bullied all year and probably next, and if you're not able to stop it yourself, that's the consequence they're intending.

So, yeah, I have some personal issues which feed into my thinking that hoping that kids will learn to be empowered deliberately ignores the downside of that approach.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Drew1365 wrote:
BFoy wrote:
Though conservatives rail against political correctness, they are trying to impose their own form of it. Any acknowledgement that racism, prejudice, bigotry exists violates the Republican political correctness. They are super sensitive to any benefit/resource someone of another race has, whether the person earned it or not.


False.


Nanny.



Nanny.



Boo.



Boo.
 
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