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Roy Stephens
United States
San Jose
California
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So, I just ran The Source for my group. We are running a full, 4 rebel character campaign with one rebel player and me running the Empire.

We just finished the scenario and there is no way that we could see to have the rebels win the scenario in 8 rounds or less (6 if they want bonus credits). How is this possible? The garbage compactor room (first room with enemies) alone took 4 turns to clear. Between the viciousness of the 2 Nexu critters and the 2 Royal Guards, and then a 6 Threat generated per round for me, he couldn't clear the room. The guards blocked the exit so the captive officer couldn't reach the door to open it. Every time a round ended, I was bringing in big guns, either a pair of heavy troopers if he had dropped them, or the elite nexu if he dropped it. They would then spawn directly in front of the door. Then, when he did finally get into the first hall, to trigger the yellow spawn point, it was more of the same: swarming troopers, resurrected nexu, and then to add insult to injury, I was allowed to move the captive officer a space each turn at the end of the round, making his trips to the doors take even longer. In the interest of fairness, i just told him to ignore the time limit and just try to keep from getting everyone wounded. He was able to finally eke out a win, but only with 2 incapacitated heroes, and on the 13th round.

So, how the heck is this mission winnable as written? I counted up the number of spaces to drag the officer and the number of doors and terminals he has to interact with and came up with about 17 actions to get him from the first room to the terminal. How can this possibly work?
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Rico P
Canada
Toronto
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First of all, 'The Source' is a hard mission. I'd estimate the difficulty to be comparable to 'A New Threat'

Still, I feel like your Rebel player have made some tactical mistakes. By now (Story Mission #4) he should know 'kill everything in sight' -> run out of time. The threat level is public (6) so he knows you get 6 threats per round and (surprise!) eNexu costs exactly 6 to bring back

A commonly forgotten rule I've seen was in the mission briefing:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A Rebel figure can interact with the captured officer to perform the following: The hero and the captured officer each move 2 spaces.

Since it's not a special action, Rebel heroes can spend both of their actions doing it

As a side note: are you playing with pre-nerf or post-nerf Royal Guards?

Finally, I think this mission will heavily depends on who are the 4 Rebel heroes and their build/xp purchases
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Cornixt
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If you have Mr Goat as a rebel character then he can get an extra action per turn when he interacts. Just pushing this guy around makes him a moving/killing machine.
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Roy Stephens
United States
San Jose
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Well, apparently I was using the pre-nerfed Royals... which did make it much harder for the Rebs, but still...

Am I doing something wrong with spawns? They are supposed to just pop up on or as near the spawn point as possible, yes? No matter where the Rebels are as far as LOS goes? I recall that in Descent (not sure if 1st or 2nd edition) the rule was that if the heroes had LOS to a spawn point, monsters couldn't spawn. If the spawn point is in front of the door, and I just respawn a large base enemy such as a nexu on it and just let it sit there, even if eventually the rebs are able to kill it, they have been delayed enough that a victory in 8 turns is impossible, and a victory by turn 6 is laughable. If the spawn point had been elsewhere in the room, it might have been better... but having it right at the door, and having large base figures in my enemy pool, was just overwhelming.

Yes, it isn't a "kill every enemy" kind of game. It is more of a "run the gauntlet" kind of game.. emphasis on "Run". but, damn... I love winning games as much as the next guy, but I felt like it was the damned Kobayashi Maru for the rebels if played as written.


And as far as the rebels not being specced right; I even let him completely re-spec them before our session. He did all the normal purchasing and what not and then I refunded all of his XP he had earned over the campaign and let him re-choose his abilities. This was due to a bookkeeping error on my part, mixed with a spilled stack of cards.

We played a side mission first (Brushfire) which he did win. It was a brutal one, but he was able to win it and played it correctly, running and gunning toward objectives as opposed to trying to stand and fight everyone.

His squad is: Diala (with reward lightsaber), Biv, Fenn (with his unique reward), and Gideon.

So, what strategy would you suggest he use? Even if daisy-chaining the imperial officer along the group, it still is very tough for them to make it all the way to the terminal in the time limit.

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John Fanjoy
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Virginia
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By that point in the campaign, the rebels should usually be dropping an elite Nexu in a single activation (two attacks) unless you're rolling especially hot on the defense die. I think as a rebel player, I'd be OK with you spending all of your threat for the round to spawn a single unit in a place where I can easily unload on it with my best hitter to likely eliminate it before it gets to activate.

Even if you're rolling dodges twice as often as you should be (one attack out of 3), it still shouldn't be a problem to eliminate a Nexu with two Rebel activations, which leaves the other two rebels to clean up other troops and/or make progress moving the officer.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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I managed to drop Vader into the garbage compactor room, and it was devastating for the Rebels. The eventually killed him off, but not before he had done irreparable damage. The Rebels got out of the room, and actually made it a decent amount further, but the damage had been done already- they were badly wounded and behind schedule.

Without dropping Vader in, I think that the Rebels would have done a little better- they could handle most things I threw at them, but getting through that door with the Lord of the Sith in the way was tough for them.
 
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Jeremy N
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We won this mission.

In fact, it is the only regular campaign mission we won.


Having Mak with Expertise helped a lot. He could move the Imperial Officer 3 times for 6 spaces. But you have the Diala which is even better since she can move the Imperial Officer 4 spaces and then Force Throw him 3.

Remember for Imperial Officer: Move 2 spaces = moves through 2 water spaces. No movement penalties are applied.


Round 1 all 4 characters should be able to attack, 2 of them attacking twice. The other two work on moving the Imperial Officer.



Your group configuration looks good.

Does Diala have Force Throw? That ability is nuts through water, since you can Force Throw a friendly figure across water at a discount.

Loadout (in order of importance):

Diala:
Force Adept
Force Throw (she can Force Throw the officer....)
Way of the Sarlaac (one attack on EACH adjacent player neutralizes RGs)
Battle Meditation OR Defensive Stance OR Snap Kick (my preference is Defensive Stance)
Weapon: Lightsaber

Fenn:
Rebel Elite
Tactical Movement
Suppressive Fire AND/OR Trench Fighter or Weapon Expert (if you have a low-range weapon) (my preference is Suppressive Fire)
Adrenaline Rush
Weapon: DXR-6 or Plasma Rifle (ideally one of those came out in the previous buying round) I'm more partial toward the DXR-6 for maximum blast targeting range. Add Weapon Expert for blast sniping.

Biv:
Vibrobayonet
Trophy Armor or Crushing Blow or Final Stand
Advance (REMEMBER: Advance applies even if Biv didn't kill the character.... he can fill spawn points)
Shake It Off
Weapon: T-21 (probably the only character this weapon is actually good on since it has mad surges to give Biv strain back and Biv can re-roll dice)

Gideon:
Master Stroke
Called Shot
Rallying Shout
Air of Command AND/OR Mobile Tactician
Weapon: Deathhammer or Sporting Blaster

Fenn should start Turn 1 and use 2 Strain Move + Tactical Movement to get as close as needed to have 100% hit chance (6 away with DXR-6) to the spawn point and Rebel Elite blast the spawn point TWICE (ideally if you thought it out and arranged your starting characters properly, Gideon should have LOS for called Shot or use Tactical Movement to get him LOS), throwing Suppressive Fire on one of the shots. Fenn should always be using Rebel Elite and Suppressive Fire and going first to clear out new spawned characters.

Gideon then goes 2nd and uses Master Stroke to make Fenn do it twice more. Everything should be nearly dead. Biv or Diala can clean up with C&P or Way of the Sarlaac depending how the IP moved their units (aggressive or separate them to mitigate blast).

Diala can go Force Throw the Imperial Officer for 3 free movement and then go interact twice (after Strain Move). This should almost have the Imperial Officer in front of the door Turn 1.

Turn 2 everyone works on killing new units and staging in front of the door (you should have learned by now never open doors if more than 50% of your group has activated).

Turn 3 open the door. Go kill stuff (Fenn should always lead the way).

Turn 4+ rinse and repeat.

This is not a mission to speed through (never open a door if 50% of Heroes have activated or there is more than 6 Threat on the board), slow and methodical, but don't backtrack to go kill guys. Always forward.


But your group is built like a tank, you should have no problem just powergaming through everything. Diala or Biv or Gideon can guard the officer, Diala being able to Force Throw him 3 spaces every round. Gideon can use his non-Command action to move the officer.

Edit: Fixed stuff noted below.
 
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Rico P
Canada
Toronto
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@Roy (OP): I don't think your Rebel player realize how powerful Diala's precise strike is. It's totally possible for Diala to drop the eNexu in 2 actions. Don't forget that surges can recover strain for all heroes

Fenn should be a loose cannon blaster. Blast 2 from Rebel Elite + lone wolf + surge recovery means Fenn can easily do Blast 2 twice and end up with no additional strain (yes it can work like that: 1 strain for Blast 2 -> 1 surge to recover 1 strain -> lone wolf)

Gideon...not much to say there, command/Masterstroke him like crazy
Use Biv as if he's Gaarkhan: charge him into the middle of melee and be a wrecking ball, just make sure he doesn't get friendly-blasted by Fenn

@Jeremy:
Didn't notice Mak's 'expertise' over there, yeah that ability is crazy good on this mission

Perhaps you could have worded it differently, but this part is screaming for a possible rule mistake?
jnad83 wrote:

Gideon then goes 2nd and uses Master Stroke to make Fenn do it again. Everything should be nearly dead. If everyone has moved apart, send Diala in instead (she can use the Master Stroke activation to Force Throw herself 3 spaces then Way of the Sarlaac obliterate everything).


First of all, Masterstroke lets Gideon to perform an additional command("perform 1 move or 1 attack") for free, so it's still Gideon's activation.

Diala's force throw is 'during your activation'. So she can't do that during masterstroke since it's not her activation

Way of Sarlaac is a special action and is not "1 move or 1 attack". So she also can't do that from Masterstroke

Finally, Diala's force throw is 'another friendly figure', so she can't force throw herself
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Yep. Command lets another figure perform a more or perform an attack, nothing more. Command does not give out actions (so no special actions are available) or activations. It is still Gideon's activation the whole time when a Command is being resolved.

However, Diala can use Precise Strike once per activation, i.e. once on her own, and once during Gideon's activation, if she can afford the strain cost.

(And correct on Diala not being able to Force Throw herself.)
 
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Jeremy N
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ricope wrote:
@Jeremy:
Didn't notice Mak's 'expertise' over there, yeah that ability is crazy good on this mission

Perhaps you could have worded it differently, but this part is screaming for a possible rule mistake?
jnad83 wrote:

Gideon then goes 2nd and uses Master Stroke to make Fenn do it again. Everything should be nearly dead. If everyone has moved apart, send Diala in instead (she can use the Master Stroke activation to Force Throw herself 3 spaces then Way of the Sarlaac obliterate everything).


First of all, Masterstroke lets Gideon to perform an additional command("perform 1 move or 1 attack") for free, so it's still Gideon's activation.

Diala's force throw is 'during your activation'. So she can't do that during masterstroke since it's not her activation

Way of Sarlaac is a special action and is not "1 move or 1 attack". So she also can't do that from Masterstroke

Finally, Diala's force throw is 'another friendly figure', so she can't force throw herself


You are correct on my mistakes.

We did not abuse these rules, it's just been a while since I've played this game.


So replace Diala force throwing herself with just strain-moving 2. She can also Force Throw the Imperial Officer anytime or her comrades.

As for Gideon, we never played him, so I've forgotten how his abilities read. So, yes, you'd use Gideon to let Fenn make 2 additional Havoc Shot attacks, since Havoc Shot is not a special attack and can be applied anytime Fenn makes a successful attack.



ricope wrote:
@Roy (OP): I don't think your Rebel player realize how powerful Diala's precise strike is. It's totally possible for Diala to drop the eNexu in 2 actions.

Correct. Diala with Way of the Sarlaac and Precise Strike and Force Adept reroll took down 2 Elite Royal Guards in our Finale (force throw one to eliminate defensive bonus) in one turn (one was wounded 4 damage from Gaarkhan cleaving him, the other untouched, she rolled max dice with the Force Pike and equipped staff addon that adds surge: +2 dmg). She was focused for one of the WotS attacks (used battle meditation before) to kill the untouched elite RG. 10 damage in one attack between RYYG and surge options of +2, +1, +1.
 
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Jeremy N
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In the end, my post was meant to say winning this mission is possible.


However, statistics about this mission are probably skewed since this mission is played when the Rebels lost the previous mission. This is probably a theme for the Rebels, since the IP player probably has 3-4 XP more than them by now.


This game is very vulnerable to asymmetric powergaming. Even moreso since the Imperial has hidden information. If the Imperial is powergaming but the Rebel player(s) are not, the Imperial will virtually wipe the rebels clean everytime.


In general its better to have the perceived weaker player playing as the Imperial in this game.
 
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Jeppe Nybo
Netherlands
Haarlem
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I've played this mission twice - with totally different results. In one the Rebels won without even cutting it close to the time limit and in the other the IP won before the Rebels had even gotten half way.

I seem to recall there is an oft misunderstood rule in this mission, that can have some impact on the outcome. I don't recall the details, but something about the wording of what you get when you interact with the captured officer - and that you are actually inteded to get all of the effects rather than having to do only one (so you have him both move AND open a door), which saves the Rebels several actions across the entire mission.
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