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Subject: Deporting 2 million+ rss

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Andy Holt
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Even ignoring such minor details as "due process", how long would it physically take to deport two million people?

Four years?

Maybe recruit the KKK to help or get advice from Putin.
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Jake
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andyholt wrote:
Even ignoring such minor details as "due process", how long would it physically take to deport two million people?

Four years?

Maybe recruit the KKK to help or get advice from Putin.

Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization. Well over 2 million total.

Due process involves nothing more than determining no citizenship and no visa. Hardly a long process.

I suppose Obama had help from the KKK also?

Ah, I remember the glory days of people knowing what the fuck they were talking about before they chimed in.
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Andy Leighton
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Captain Coconut wrote:
andyholt wrote:
Even ignoring such minor details as "due process", how long would it physically take to deport two million people?

Four years?

Maybe recruit the KKK to help or get advice from Putin.

Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization. Well over 2 million total.

Due process involves nothing more than determining no citizenship and no visa. Hardly a long process.


Well there could still be issues. Presumably some may claim refugee status - some legitimately. The US is a signatory to the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. Returning legitimate refugees is breaking that protocol and as such against international law.
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Jake
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andyl wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:
andyholt wrote:
Even ignoring such minor details as "due process", how long would it physically take to deport two million people?

Four years?

Maybe recruit the KKK to help or get advice from Putin.

Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization. Well over 2 million total.

Due process involves nothing more than determining no citizenship and no visa. Hardly a long process.


Well there could still be issues. Presumably some may claim refugee status - some legitimately. The US is a signatory to the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. Returning legitimate refugees is breaking that protocol and as such against international law.

Absolutely, but he's prioritizing criminals. Not just criminals with regard to immigration, but actual criminals.

How many legitimate refugees do you think are in the US right now that don't have legitimate refugee status? I can tell you: not many. With the Middle Eastern refugee situation right now, the current vetting process is pretty intense. Anyone who's portrayed it otherwise is either misinformed or has an agenda.
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Jage
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Captain Coconut wrote:

Ah, I remember the glory days of people knowing what the fuck they were talking about before they chimed in.


When was this?
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Steve Cates
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jageroxorz wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:

Ah, I remember the glory days of people knowing what the fuck they were talking about before they chimed in.


When was this?

Make RSP great again!

Yeah, Obama has deported 2.5 million. Where's the outrage over all the families that were broken up?

Trump will build the wall first, deport the criminals, strengthen laws on hiring undocumented workers, and laws regarding receiving benefits. Most of the illegal immigrants will self deport if they can't find work. The scare scenario of the Dems of a deportation force going house to house is never going to happen.

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Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-num...
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Jage
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People don't care when it's "their guy".

Expect protests of drone strikes, deportations, foreign wars, etc... to suddenly pop up again.
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casey r lowe
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Captain Coconut wrote:
Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization.

i guess thats why andyholt estimated it would take 4 years to deport 2 million people - that know-nothing fuckhead

jageroxorz wrote:
Expect protests of drone strikes, deportations, foreign wars, etc... to suddenly pop up again.

those must be the far left policies the democratic party embraced according to tstone
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Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America? Is there any serious argument for just opening the borders to foreign nationals who are drug dealers, robbers, rapists, murders, etc?

This alone is the single issue that I just despised Bush for not taking care of. Obama I understand, he's a globalist who views illegals voting as the path to ensuring a permanent progressive America. But to me Bush betrayed us by failing to stem the tide of criminals into America. We'll see if Trump actually does it. if he does, I mean really puts effective controls on the border and deports criminals he'll be a shoe-in for 2020. Health care aside - it's this and jobs in America that he will succeed or fail on.
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casey r lowe
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DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America?

job creators who exploit immigrants for cheap labor would have a problem with that
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Patrick Dignam
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Seems like Obama processed close to 2 million just fine and this was just for part of his presidency.

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Andy Leighton
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DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America? Is there any serious argument for just opening the borders to foreign nationals who are drug dealers, robbers, rapists, murders, etc?


He wants to extend it further to everyone who didn't get into the US through regular means doesn't he?

But also your "criminals" will also include petty shop-lifters and jay-walkers and people committing traffic offenses.
 
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ironcates wrote:
jageroxorz wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:

Ah, I remember the glory days of people knowing what the fuck they were talking about before they chimed in.


When was this?

Make RSP great again!

Yeah, Obama has deported 2.5 million. Where's the outrage over all the families that were broken up?

Trump will build the wall first, deport the criminals, strengthen laws on hiring undocumented workers, and laws regarding receiving benefits. Most of the illegal immigrants will self deport if they can't find work. The scare scenario of the Dems of a deportation force going house to house is never going to happen.

Quote:
Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-num...


Making a serious attempt to deport undocumented workers isn't going to happen either, nor is punishing the businesses that take advantage of them.
 
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Andy Holt
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andyl wrote:

But also your "criminals" will also include petty shop-lifters and jay-walkers and people committing traffic offenses.


Apparently one third of all usaians have a criminal record by the time they are 23. Looks like the USA has a much bigger problem than illegal immigrants.
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andyl wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America? Is there any serious argument for just opening the borders to foreign nationals who are drug dealers, robbers, rapists, murders, etc?


He wants to extend it further to everyone who didn't get into the US through regular means doesn't he?

But also your "criminals" will also include petty shop-lifters and jay-walkers and people committing traffic offenses.


Okay. Still wondering why anyone believes this is an issue. We have immigration laws you know. So does your island. Are you saying that those laws should just be ignored?

Technically anyone in America who didn't go through the proper channels is here illegally. Starting with the known criminals and deporting them first makes total sense. That also gives those who are merely guilty of the lesser crime of coming here illegally to take steps to become legal. This is something I 100% support Trump on and that I 100% felt betrayed on by Bush - these people are essentially an income resource for Mexico. Remittances from illegals back to Mexico are responsible for 2% of their nation's total income. It's cost effective for Mexico to rid themselves of their deplorables and help them get here where they get health care and education for free and become a cash flow stream of dollars back into Mexico.

It's just moronic to allow this to persist.
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BJ
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Captain Coconut wrote:
Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization. Well over 2 million total.


No he didn't. The Obama Administration changed the definition of deportation to include those people who were turned away when caught at the border. Removing 4 million people who actually live here is a far more difficult task than Obama's inflated number.
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Patrick Dignam
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DWTripp wrote:

Okay. Still wondering why anyone believes this is an issue. We have immigration laws you know. So does your island. Are you saying that those laws should just be ignored?

Technically anyone in America who didn't go through the proper channels is here illegally.


*AGREED* Isn't this obvious? Yet others think we need to break our laws for their agendas. Ridiculous.

People who are in any country w/o due process, are at most criminal and in the least lack respect for that country's rules and citizenry.
 
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andyholt wrote:
Even ignoring such minor details as "due process", how long would it physically take to deport two million people?

Four years?

Maybe recruit the KKK to help or get advice from Putin.


I think you're in error...there's no due process for most illegals, it's a straightforward process.


Ferret
 
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Patrick Dignam
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bjlillo wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:
Obama deported almost a half million per year while pushing for mass naturalization. Well over 2 million total.


No he didn't. The Obama Administration changed the definition of deportation to include those people who were turned away when caught at the border. Removing 4 million people who actually live here is a far more difficult task than Obama's inflated number.


The Captain is right. I just posted 1/2 of Obama's deportation #s above. Pay Attention.

In fact Trump is suggesting following what Obama started,

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-has-president-obama-de...
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Andy Leighton
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DWTripp wrote:
andyl wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America? Is there any serious argument for just opening the borders to foreign nationals who are drug dealers, robbers, rapists, murders, etc?


He wants to extend it further to everyone who didn't get into the US through regular means doesn't he?

But also your "criminals" will also include petty shop-lifters and jay-walkers and people committing traffic offenses.


Okay. Still wondering why anyone believes this is an issue. We have immigration laws you know. So does your island. Are you saying that those laws should just be ignored?


If you are OK with everyone being deported why bring out the talk of murderers and rapists and drug-dealers then? I would guess hardly anyone supports those people being put in jail or deported - although I guess jail is better unless you can guarantee the receiving country puts them in jail.

Now if there was a fairly liberal policy of regularisation* for long-term illegal immigrants** that works together with a sane deportation policy then things could possibly work. However there has been very little talk about the regularisation side of the coin.

Also of course the big spectre is the immigrants from Mexico and Central America who comprise about two thirds of the US total of illegal immigrants. There is very little talk of the other third.

* Which grants indefinite leave to remain and work, and even lets people work towards citizenship.
** Quite a few of whom will be parents of US citizens.
 
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Patrick Dignam
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andyl wrote:


If you are OK with everyone being deported why bring out the talk of murderers and rapists and drug-dealers then?


I think if you paid attention to what was previously posted by others and me --- you have to start somewhere --- these are the squeaky wheels that need greasing. This is a political issue, politics make this action expedient.

BTW --- Great Britain has basically decided to wall themselves off. It's the "do as I say not as I do" Libs love to live by. whistle
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Jage
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Just ask the people living in other countries if I can move in without going through the proper channels and become a citizen.

I mean, hell, can I just walk across the border to Canada and decide to live there? Can I just fly into Sweden and become a citizen?
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Chris Binkowski
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andyholt wrote:
Even ignoring such minor details as "due process",


Do non-citizens get due process?

He doesn't need to physically deport many people: take away the incentives illegals come here for (free benefits, illegal job positions) and many will self deport.

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single sentences wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America?

job creators who exploit immigrants for cheap labor would have a problem with that


More to the point, the US built a system that depends on cheap labour for various activities. And the cheapest sort of labour is illegal immigrants - because they will work even for sub-legal wages without any ability to sue or otherwise object. Having many, but not too many, illegal immigrants suited many people fine. And the system was constructed to enable that. And that's without considering that they make useful scapegoats.

So there is an argument that while technically illegal, the system actually encouraged them (though not individually, they were filtered in number by various measures) and to now pull out the illegal card is simple hypocrisy when politically expedient.

Now the Trump vote (and the Brexit vote - though our equivalents are mostly legal currently) that makes it expedient contained both those who both had real reasons to want to eliminate any form of downward wage pressure (which has been real, though illegal immigrants are not the main reason, bitvsre a reason) and those who bought into the scapegoating. Ratio unknown (and there's overlap).

As you can see I'm a proper liberal (not in the US insult misuse of the word) in that I can see arguments on both sides of the issue.
 
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andyl wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
andyl wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem with Trump (or any president) deporting criminals who are illegally residing in America? Is there any serious argument for just opening the borders to foreign nationals who are drug dealers, robbers, rapists, murders, etc?


He wants to extend it further to everyone who didn't get into the US through regular means doesn't he?

But also your "criminals" will also include petty shop-lifters and jay-walkers and people committing traffic offenses.


Okay. Still wondering why anyone believes this is an issue. We have immigration laws you know. So does your island. Are you saying that those laws should just be ignored?


If you are OK with everyone being deported why bring out the talk of murderers and rapists and drug-dealers then? I would guess hardly anyone supports those people being put in jail or deported - although I guess jail is better unless you can guarantee the receiving country puts them in jail.

Now if there was a fairly liberal policy of regularisation* for long-term illegal immigrants** that works together with a sane deportation policy then things could possibly work. However there has been very little talk about the regularisation side of the coin.

Also of course the big spectre is the immigrants from Mexico and Central America who comprise about two thirds of the US total of illegal immigrants. There is very little talk of the other third.

* Which grants indefinite leave to remain and work, and even lets people work towards citizenship.
** Quite a few of whom will be parents of US citizens.


I think that Viking guy answered this pretty well. I watched Trump being interviewed by that one 60 Minutes lady -- the one who looks like an old lady who applies her lipstick with her fist -- and he pretty much said the same thing... you really do have to start somewhere.

The idea of regularization is that if someone can not get caught committing their crime for a long enough period of time then we should just forget that it's a crime and reward them for being canny enough to stay hidden. That's an invitation to be a criminal. When you are an illegal alien you are committing that crime all the time. It's not like robbery or assault where there is a single event and then after a statute of limitations that event is no longer considered actionable.

There really is no valid argument for allowing people to illegally enter, stay and and then divert the resources of one nation for the benefit of the citizens of another nation. Unless you are against the idea of nations altogether. Even that is a stupid and ignorant thing to believe in - look at any nation that has within it other boundaries, districts, etc. The idea is that each district (city, state, county, parish) raise money to pay for basic needs and wants that the resident within those boundaries decide are worthwhile. Some money goes to the district that encompasses them and then up to the larger districts until you come to the national boundary. At that point, via elected officials money can then be used *legally* outside the national boundary for a variety of reasons from trade to military aid to helping allies or to disaster relief, science or educational funding, etc.

The reason to have a national border isn't so much cultural as it is to protect and secure the interests of the people who are of that nation and who are the source of the abundance that the nation itself possesses. When you have anyone, literally anyone no matter how appealing their reason, who violates that boundary and begins gathering and consuming resources and follows that by funneling those resources to other nations of people then you are effectively allowing yourself and your citizens to be robbed.

As for children of immigrants born here - that's a dicey one for several reasons not the least of which is the sheer amount of people who break the law and come here specifically so they can force their children onto a nation that they have done nothing for. Would I like to send those people back? Maybe, in some cases, maybe not in others. That's why you start where you can have the biggest effect the quickest and reduce crime in our nation the quickest - with those who have criminal records.
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