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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Scaling of enemies (core vs expansion) rss

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Norman Lew
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I'm currently running 2 different groups of SoB. As forums suggested, we've ramped up the difficulty by adding more elite tokens to each monster based on our level. I've been slowly getting more enemy packs and adding them to the threat decks. As mentioned on the forums, expansion enemies are significantly more difficult than the core enemies.

Should we be ramping up difficulty on the expansion enemies? or should we be extra ramp the core enemies (2 levels higher)? I find the game changes drastically depending on which enemies are drawn (expansion vs core).

thoughts?
 
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Klutz
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I don't have an answer to your question, but what makes the expansion enemies more difficult?

I won't have anything other than the core sets for a few months still...
 
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Joe Price
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It really varies depending upon the enemy. It might be basic combat stats (4 def with more than 1 health; more combat stat, higher damage stat), it might be special offense (various crit abilities; ignore defense - early with no armor, ouch!) or defense (endurance, I'm lookin' at you). It might be change in AI (shootout with a mob of melee in front hurts a lot more than just a mob of melee). It might just be utility (move through targets on more than a hellbat).

Oh, and here's another one that's been hitting us: the decrease in loot draws. The core sets have a MUCH higher percentage of "monster+lower threat card" which means drawing two or more loot per combat. That's a much higher percentage of gear and artifact draws. The new material is mostly (not entirely) single cards, whether for a single enemy or multiples (think of the card that adds 2P Void Spiders and P Strangers or 1 Slasher and P Hellbats versus the card that adds 1 Slasher and 1 Low Threat). Less gear and artifacts = slower power progression. Sure you can find "the best" gear up front, but even if you got lucky to find that one piece you were looking for, you're not just looking for one piece. And combine that with the extra artifacts and especially gear that comes with everything, and it's much harder to not just get gear, but get gear that fits with the composition of your party.

Having said all of that, we still love it. I've just been looking to find some additions to bring back some more of the multicard pulls, especially with some of the shootout folks. Void Sorcerers and Serpentmen Shaman really want support critters to keep heroes away and occupied so they can cast their buff spells, especially their monster buffs (hey look, everything's +1 def for the next turn - oh, and they just healed damage AND gained 2 max health? Whee!).

For now, we're leaving everything as per vanilla and we'll adjust if/when the difficulty changes at the higher level. For now, we've lost more with the recent group getting to 3 than the three groups before them getting to 8.
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J M
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KevBelisle wrote:
I don't have an answer to your question, but what makes the expansion enemies more difficult?

I won't have anything other than the core sets for a few months still...


A case in point- Three Harvesters vs two first level characters final boss battle (rancher and doc). Immune to the usual level 1 hail-mary (dynamite) and Toughness 5 meaning 6s to wound, 5 wounds. Not realistically possible to defeat. Probably not a problem for a gunslinger and US marshal though.

Void sorcerer dropped fairly quickly to those characters, though.
 
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Joe Price
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AceAceBaby wrote:
A case in point- Three Harvesters vs two first level characters final boss battle (rancher and doc).


Uh, yeah, ouch. Our new group was lucky to have a free attack once per fight that ignored defense item that hit and killed the single one we faced. Sweating bullets for that one (that were just bouncing off it). The higher level groups didn't have a problem, but they were definite speed bumps. Harvesters with other mobs would be fun too! Decisions, decisions.

For reference, my group runs mostly four characters with the occasional three character group.
 
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Klutz
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I haven't actually played with anything other than the cores sets, so take this with a grain of salt but...

I feel like FFP should've kept the expansion ennemies at the same difficulty level as the core sets, and released updated Posse Size and Posse Level Difficulty Scaling charts.

That way each encounter is more or less the same difficulty and not either:

A) Oh, an encounter card from the core set, we'll just blast through these in a single round and get 2-3 Loot Cards each.

B) Gosh darnit, it's the first encounter and we're all going to die.
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Norman Lew
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I've added dark stone brutes, harvesters, guardian.

The the guardian hit the table (60HP) with self healing we just ignored it and prayed it didn't kill us because there was such much more going on (6 tentacles, 12 hungry dead, 2 corpse piles).

I've also noticed some issues with frontier town bandits. I actually posted a question here

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1672146/frontier-town-too-h...

In one of the missions, bandits had 2X HP, which mean 16HP, +2 defence, which meant 4 defence. There are usually 6 of these bandits on the map. Compare that to 1 harbinger with 18 HP. That doesn't even take into account the # of shots from ranged.

I love the game, just trying to find that delicate balance of making the game harder but not impossible.
 
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Max Caine
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You don't need to ramp Trederra. Not at all. Trederrans are tough but fair. You just have to think about what they are going to do several turns in advance and plan for it.

E.G. when our group was facing 4 Trederran Legionnaires, two manning a rather large darkstone-powered laser cannon, I, the gunslinger, who had rolled well on his movement ran into the other two Legionnaires and shot one dead. The other one couldn't move away (failed his retreat roll), so he stayed in hand to hand and rolled 2 dice at a 4+ to-hit. This was in stark comparison to the 4 dice at 3+ to hit (elite ability + # of shots scale with level) that he would have hosed me down with had I stayed back and traded shots. It also got me out of the way of the laser cannon who went on to shoot the Bandito who is our aggro tank and could take the blow.
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Max Caine
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Double post because I think of things long after I post.

What I've found with expansion enemies is that Core enemies make great filler to break up expansion fights. You can get through a hard fight with a trio of custodians and then it's kinda restful to squish some void spiders or have a Night Terror jump out just long enough to shout AAARGH before it changes to AIIEEE. Expansion enemies spice the dish, as it were.
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Andreas Lieberoth Wadum
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Maximillian_Caine wrote:
Double post because I think of things long after I post.

What I've found with expansion enemies is that Core enemies make great filler to break up expansion fights. You can get through a hard fight with a trio of custodians and then it's kinda restful to squish some void spiders or have a Night Terror jump out just long enough to shout AAARGH before it changes to AIIEEE. Expansion enemies spice the dish, as it were.


Haha!

Good game psychology trumps balance any day.
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chang chang

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KevBelisle wrote:
I haven't actually played with anything other than the cores sets, so take this with a grain of salt but...

I feel like FFP should've kept the expansion ennemies at the same difficulty level as the core sets, and released updated Posse Size and Posse Level Difficulty Scaling charts.....


100% this.
I liked the game, and balaced it quite well i thought... then got some expansions.. then some more.. and now WTH!??!?!? lol

stop adding expansions.. and so far skipping the KS.. kind of a shame. It had a lot of potential. This could have being a great campaign game if they had scale monsters with heroes and would have being a ta more creative with the missions...

 
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Andrea Florio
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To be honest I like how Trederra is supposed to be more dangerous that other worlds.

I mean, cowboys fighting ww1 veterans? It HAS to be hard
 
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