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SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: Specific Relic (spoilers) rss

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Sam Bookler
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We are going into game 9. We only have 3 relics so far in our game and one is the horn that allows you to spend fortune at dangerous sites. I'm beginning to think it may not be working as designed. Ker was conquered after one game because of the horn, for instance. It is rendering dangerous sites meaningless for the player who holds it. It seems like instead of unlimited fortune, it should only allow 1 or 2 fortune to be spent at a site. Also, it should maybe exclude certain story dangerous sites / player provinces.
 
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Brian Denning
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Well, don't forget, Relics take up hold spaces, and therefore can be stolen fairly easily.
 
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Sam Bookler
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We've actually found them to be all but impossible to steal. We all tend to keep our ships together and the defender can choose their flagship. So, they'll just choose the one that doesn't have the relic. They have ships with 5 raid, so the amount of dice and turns you'd need to dedicate to sink one ship, then try to get an attack in on the other to steal the relics is a excessive.

However, regardless of who ends up having it, I think being able to spend unlimited fortune at dangerous sites ends up breaking several mechanics / campaign pacing features.
 
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Brian Denning
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Well, if everyone teamed up, and instead of taking it, you sank the ship, making the relic lost forever...

But also, fortune tokens aren't THAT plentiful, and you can't ADD successes where you don't have dice, it just changes failed rolls into successes, so you can't use them to pass things that would normally be impossible. Just hard.
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Sam Bookler
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Well, now you're moving the goal post a bit. Having *everyone* team up because of a single relic - that already shows that the given relic is overpowered. Plus, the way the enmity system works, it's likely that whomever succeeds in taking the relic will just get it stolen back by the original owner.

Since getting that relic (since it was the first one discovered), the owner has upgraded his fortune every chance he's had - any game win and a couple random Captain's Booke rewards. He has 5 tokens to start the game. Occasionally, an advisor or building gives him a couple more. Hence how Ker was conquered the very game after discovery. While fortune doesn't add dice, it does almost guarantee success if you have the dice, given you have enough of it.

Given the ship upgrade that allows fortune use caps it at 2, it's hard for me to wrap my head around the design decision to allow unlimited fortune use for the relic.

On the one hand, I empathize with the sheer difficulty of balancing and playtesting a legacy game. I, for one, love this new dawn of legacy games. I recognize we're in the frontier here and things will be rough. On the other hand, there seems to have been some very strange design decisions in Seafall that seem almost a priori imbalanced. Easy fixes that were overlooked.
 
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J Kaemmer
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I just want to make sure you are playing end game upgrades correctly...

You must take the lowest sticker available. Always. That means if you already have 3 fortune it doesn't help

To start with 5 someone would have to selected fortune at the end of 8 separate games... when there are clearly better rewards.

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I guess certain milestones give it as an option


I guess he could have taken the "Lucky" appellation, but still... thats 5 fortune upgrades AND the appellation.

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Assuming he didn't start with it


I'm not going to lie, your group has either somewhat enabled this situation or he is literally SUPER Lucky.

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Getting the right appellation, everybody taking fortune upgrades for milestones and end-game rewards, happening to find the exact relic... I don't neccessarily think the relic is broken, I think the situation is incredibly unlikely or you played the upgrade rules wrong
 
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AJ Harris
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iswearihaveajob wrote:

You must take the lowest sticker available. Always. That means if you already have 3 fortune it doesn't help


The way you wrote this makes me think YOU actually might be doing this wrong, haha. You take the next lowest number when upgrading. So a 3 definitely upgrades to a 4, not just another 3...just clarifying.
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Brian Denning
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Well, there is also the Grizzled Veteran, who gives you 2 and lets you use 4, so 2 isn't always a cap.

The important thing is that fortune tokens don't ADD successes. They just fix dice that are already there. You can't use them to succeed an endeavor if you don't have enough dice in the first place.
 
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J Kaemmer
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much0gust0 wrote:
iswearihaveajob wrote:

You must take the lowest sticker available. Always. That means if you already have 3 fortune it doesn't help


The way you wrote this makes me think YOU actually might be doing this wrong, haha. You take the next lowest number when upgrading. So a 3 definitely upgrades to a 4, not just another 3...just clarifying.


Well shit. Now that I re-read the rules:
"Take the next higher available sticker"

I must have misremembered it as just "next available" or "next sticker." Personally, I think that this method would work better because it means nobody can run off down the road getting really good in 1 category. They have to spread out the rewards first.

Ah well, even though I was wrong, I'm the only player affected thus far in the campaign so no biggie.

I apologize and retract my previous comment.
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Nathanaël Dufour
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Spoiler box 3 :

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I don't feel like the Idol is that much more powerful than most other Relics. It is quite powerful, but not broken. If it seems too powerful, maybe try to steal it ? (Not easy I know).

Yes, dangerous sites are supposed to be harder to get, and the Idol lets you bypass that. On the other hand, if that player is focusing on dangerous sites, he is ignoring the Tombs, which are so ludicrously powerful. He's also probably spending all of his luck tokens in one endeavors, when they are his main upgrade. (and one of the weakest usually).

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