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Myth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about card interaction for reducing the Darkness Meter AP rss

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projhex #
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Hello all,

I've been playing MYTH since the original Kickstarter, and recently after having completed the Fury of the Fireborne quest, we've run into an issue with the Darkness Meter and reduction in AP.

A player in our group has two items:

Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory)
"At the start of this Hero's turn only, Roll 1 FD. If the result is the Hero's Defining Attribute reduce the Darkness AP by 2.

Mantle of Fate (Armor)
"Once per roll, you may set 1 FD to any result."

Do these items interact how they read? Are we able to reduce the Darkness AP by 2 every single time we start a new Hero Phase?

We normally have a five person group with the five base classes where one person has the Shroud of Xa'ndria (Armor)
"Once per Hero Cycle, you may reduce the AP cost of 1 Hero card you play by 1,"
and others have AP reducing cards such as Pacify, Fool's Errand, Feet of the Saints, and the journeyman cards Battle Advice and The Path of Nature... it seems like the enemies never actually get a turn.

We played through the first act of Shores of Khanis today and I'm not sure anyone every took a single point of damage. The enemies did not even get a turn during the first two-tile setup after the prologue.

Are we doing something wrong here? The only thing I can think of is that the Skull of the Corruptor should read "Once per attack roll, you may set one FD to any result."
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Jerry Tresman
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projhex wrote:
Hello all,

I've been playing MYTH since the original Kickstarter, and recently after having completed the Fury of the Fireborne quest, we've run into an issue with the Darkness Meter and reduction in AP.

A player in our group has two items:

Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory)
"At the start of this Hero's turn only, Roll 1 FD. If the result is the Hero's Defining Attribute reduce the Darkness AP by 2.

Mantle of Fate (Armor)
"Once per roll, you may set 1 FD to any result."

Do these items interact how they read? Are we able to reduce the Darkness AP by 2 every single time we start a new Hero Phase?

We normally have a five person group with the five base classes where one person has the Shroud of Xa'ndria (Armor)
"Once per Hero Cycle, you may reduce the AP cost of 1 Hero card you play by 1,"
and others have AP reducing cards such as Pacify, Fool's Errand, Feet of the Saints, and the journeyman cards Battle Advice and The Path of Nature... it seems like the enemies never actually get a turn.

We played through the first act of Shores of Khanis today and I'm not sure anyone every took a single point of damage. The enemies did not even get a turn during the first two-tile setup after the prologue.

Are we doing something wrong here? The only thing I can think of is that the Skull of the Corruptor should read "Once per attack roll, you may set one FD to any result."


Answer 1.

projhex wrote:
Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory)
"At the start of this Hero's turn only, Roll 1 FD. If the result is the Hero's Defining Attribute reduce the Darkness AP by 2.


As Read at the start of this Hero's turn
projhex wrote:
Mantle of Fate (Armor)
"Once per roll, you may set 1 FD to any result."

As read when attacking and equipped.
MERCKenny Posts: 1,345 April 2014 Official FAQ at Megacon wrote:


http://megacongames.com/community/#/discussion/comment/4341

Devastate is unusable when moving cautioiusly. Other items provide bonuses automatically to the Hero's dice pool and other areas.

If armor / helms / or accessories provide bonus dice of any kind they are always added to the dice pool of the Hero's attacks.


I have seen later posts on the community saying it can be used at other times but they have probably not seen Kenny's post on this.

So you are right there is an implied ""Once per attack roll" for items unless the card text says otherwise e.g. states at the start of a Hero's turn

Note:- I havent received or played any Journeyman expansions yet so the following is based on (ignorance and pre Journeyman)

Be aware if you potter about minimising AP you may have a few quiet safe rounds but you will not get much done.

If you don't level up via the rules e.g. just bounce into a quest with your choice of items then you are going to unbalance things.

As for cards that reduce AP you have to have them in hand and play them. They will discard and go back into your draw deck at the end of the Hero Cycle. So yes an average of 1-2 per HC but with 5 players then the darkness will ramp up quicker. So reducing AP by 1 for the cost of a card slot may be worth it. Some Heroes work better ramped up (Soldier)


 
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Judy Krauss
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How do you define a Hero's "turn" since there aren't any real turns, just the Hero Cycles and the Darkness Cycles (plus the Hero Deck and Refresh Phases)?:
The first time the Hero who is equipped with that item plays a card during the Hero Cycle? And if so, can it be any card?
Or, at the beginning of a Hero Cycle as long as the Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory) is equipped and the Hero wearing it hasn't been defeated?
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Jerry Tresman
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Jude wrote:
How do you define a Hero's "turn" since there aren't any real turns, just the Hero Cycles and the Darkness Cycles (plus the Hero Deck and Refresh Phases)?:
The first time the Hero who is equipped with that item plays a card during the Hero Cycle? And if so, can it be any card?
Or, at the beginning of a Hero Cycle as long as the Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory) is equipped and the Hero wearing it hasn't been defeated?


Good catch Judy.


I hadn't thought about that before - how I read it is.

Immediately after the Hero Cycle and beforethat character plays any cards in the new Hero Cycle. So that the players can pick the order of any "actions" at the beginning of a Hero Turn (Hero Cycle).

In effect "at the beginning of a Hero Cycle as long as the Skull of the Corruptor (Accessory) is equipped and the Hero wearing it hasn't been defeated?"


I think Kenny and others use the term through gaming habit.
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David Jackson
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It's been discussed that Mantle of Fate, as written, is -too- good, and breaks too many things in the game.

Perhaps there was an unofficial ruling as was stated that things like this should only apply in combat (but even then, significantly upping your chance of completing a FD recipe, or even guaranteeing it, is powerful).

This "variant" was put in the community item pack and is what I've been using in place of the default item.



I don't know what to do other than tweak things myself here and there, because I'm sure as people start progressing through Journeyman and try out some of the new orange/set items, there are going to be other scenarios where combos allow the game to become too easy most of the time.

Kenny's statement doesn't really cover the effect given by this item, to me. It's not giving bonus dice or adding to the dice pool. Perhaps it should be implied, but here we go again on the vague and inconsistent wordings on things.
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Jerry Tresman
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CarelessOpossum wrote:

Perhaps there was an unofficial ruling as was stated that things like this should only apply in combat ...
Kenny's statement doesn't really cover the effect given by this item, to me. It's not giving bonus dice or adding to the dice pool. Perhaps it should be implied, but here we go again on the vague and inconsistent wordings on things.


Kenny's ruling was official it was in his Official FAQ section - just not published yet. It is certainly not vague by normal standards.

To me ,its quite clear all dice bonus (anything that impacts/add/removes /increase or decreases dice) unless otherwise stated can only be used as part of an attack.

For Myth (and Recon) The spirit of the game is the assumption as opposed to rules lawyer interpretation of Any kind would carry over to turning FD. In effect he is defining the scope of these items and ther impact it is limited to the attack action, unless otherwise stated.

Earlier post that day on same thread wrote:

Concerning the blue item MANTLE OF FATE--

Which fate dice can be affected by the item. Obviously it affects (and is intended for) the FD rolled in the dice pool, but does the mantle work if to influence the FD rolled for traps? Or can it be combined with the blue item THAT THING to change that die to whichever hero face is desired?


It was in direct response to the Mantle of Fate. So would clearly include turning FD. So deduction rather than assumption.

The discussion on the Mantle of Faith ignored Kenny's ruling, probably because it was buried in one thread and not published.
 
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Stevie P
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There are a ton of combinations and the more "stuff" that is the game the chances of getting an unbeatable combination is going to become more and more common. Maybe when the combinations come up there needs to be a ruling that when ITEM A and ITEM B are in the same party of heroes then the magic being so close to each other nerfs one of the items in some way.

I would rather have a nerf list then see a bunch of rewrites on the cards which could take forever or never happen. That way you can still have one of the cards at full power as long as you dont have that unbeatable combination.

 
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David Jackson
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I went to the thread you quoted/linked.




It would appear that he was responding to the questions posed immediately prior to his post - i.e. +FD being given on the attack line of non-weapon items. The question posed about the Mantle of Fate specifically was a good 10-12 posts further up the thread. He even answered the question about devastate that was asked in the same post.

Are there other posts connecting the two? I don't see Kenny's response as a direct reply to the Mantle of Fate question, but rather the question in the post above his.
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Jason S
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It definitely would seem more likely to me that Kenny's response regarding adding or subtracting dice was a response to the immediately prior question regarding adding or subtracting dice rather than a question that didn't have anything at all to do with adding or subtracting dice, i.e. mantle of fate.
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MM
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js379 wrote:
It definitely would seem more likely to me that Kenny's response regarding adding or subtracting dice was a response to the immediately prior question regarding adding or subtracting dice rather than a question that didn't have anything at all to do with adding or subtracting dice, i.e. mantle of fate.


Agreed.

I'd recommend @mentioning Kenny over on their site calling his attention to this question. That way you know he's aware of the question. The odds are long that either Brian or Kenny will answer this here.
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projhex #
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Starman54 wrote:

I have seen later posts on the community saying it can be used at other times but they have probably not seen Kenny's post on this.

So you are right there is an implied ""Once per attack roll" for items unless the card text says otherwise e.g. states at the start of a Hero's turn

Note:- I havent received or played any Journeyman expansions yet so the following is based on (ignorance and pre Journeyman)

Be aware if you potter about minimising AP you may have a few quiet safe rounds but you will not get much done.

If you don't level up via the rules e.g. just bounce into a quest with your choice of items then you are going to unbalance things.

As for cards that reduce AP you have to have them in hand and play them. They will discard and go back into your draw deck at the end of the Hero Cycle. So yes an average of 1-2 per HC but with 5 players then the darkness will ramp up quicker. So reducing AP by 1 for the cost of a card slot may be worth it. Some Heroes work better ramped up (Soldier)


We have leveled up according to the rules. As some people have not be present for all sessions, most of us have between 3-4 titles each and 3-4 card replacements each. We have pretty much all of the blue gear for each class, but are just getting the Gold and Orange items, as I'm still waiting on Item Expansions I, II, and III.

I realize that we may not be getting -AP cards every turn, but we are getting them very often. I am playing the Acolyte and with the Dark Crystal I am very often able to recycle Feet of the Saints causing most attacks to be free or nearly free. Our Archer has the +hand size bow causing him to go through his deck a slightly faster and he has both Pacify and Fool's Errand. The Apprentice pretty much gets a free attack every turn with the Shroud of Xa'Ndria, etc.... It all adds up quickly.

We may just have to house rule the Skull to "on attacks only."
 
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