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Conan» Forums » General

Subject: Only two 5 player scenarios? rss

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Richard Keene
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My copy of the game (Kings Pledge) arrived a couple days ago and I was a little dismayed that there are only two 5 player scenarios. I haven’t played yet but I’m curious if anyone who has could comment on scaling the other scenarios up and still having them be somewhat balanced/fun.
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anthony dybacz
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The scenarios that have the extra player increase the OL gems by 2 and increase the gem refresh rate by 2
(e.g the scenario gives the OL 10 gems and a refresh of 5 a turn, increase this to 12 gems and a refresh of 7 a turn). This is a start.

However while I do not believe that the scenarios are as balanced as some claim, please be aware that in some scenarios the extra gems given to the OL will not always ofset the additional killing power the heroes will get; the OL may well lose too many models too quickly.
The only way to ofset this is play it and see if the OL needs more minis (you cannot always increase tiles in the river, but you can add extra minis to certain units).

Hope that gives you something to go on and enjoy the game how you want to
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C B
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In addition to the extra OL gems, all the heroes start with 5 of their gems 'used'
 
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anthony dybacz
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ampoliros wrote:
In addition to the extra OL gems, all the heroes start with 5 of their gems 'used'


Good catch, I forgot that.
This can be really important because it will cause heroes to rest earlier and give the OL some breathing room.
 
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Lack of 5 player scenarios is what has turned me down from this game. Usually, games of this type have rules for scaling. Better or worse, but the scaling is there. That the designers did not even attempt to implement scaling is a worrying sign.
 
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anthony dybacz
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Tiefling wrote:
Lack of 5 player scenarios is what has turned me down from this game. Usually, games of this type have rules for scaling. Better or worse, but the scaling is there. That the designers did not even attempt to implement scaling is a worrying sign.


You wont get any arguement from me on this issue.

While it could be said that the scenarios are finely balanced and adding extra characters will mess with that, I would respond with 2 points:
1) I reject the premise that the scenarios are so finely balanced, and
2) design scenarios with scaling in mind from the ground up...

A caveat to the balance issue is that there certainly are things that can ruin a scenario (skills in particular scenarios, for example) and you need to be wary of these issues.

Personally, I really like the game (or I would not be posting here) and am not averse to making my own house rules to enjoy the game how I want to, but I acknowledge that it would be beneficial to increase the player base (for all concerned) by having this sort of stuff in there to cater for all types of groups.

 
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Mathieu Hatt
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Yesterday we played the scenario "in the heart of darkness". we played it once with 4 heroes (adding Valeria), adding 2 gems and 2 recovery for the OL, as well as adding two bowmen and a squad of skeletons. The OL lost very fast (turn 4), although he objectively made several major mistakes. However, I am not sure that if he had played differently, he would have survived until turn 8 anyway.
We played it again, with 3 heroes and the standard setup. Heroes won again at turn 7, although it was more balanced and difficult. Belit died, but the two remaining heroes managed to kill Skuthus. This time the OL played better, and only made one big mistake, that could have allowed Skuthus to survive one more turn.
 
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anthony dybacz
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When we play 'In the Clutches of the Picts' the scenario is so unbalanced that I give Belit 2 guards AND I randomise where the Princess is and I can still beat the heroes convincingly (they are getting closer, 5 tries so far).

We feel that Belit without guards and OL choosing where the princess is located is basically a cake walk for the OL.
 
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Justin Colm
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CardboardAnt wrote:
When we play 'In the Clutches of the Picts' the scenario is so unbalanced that I give Belit 2 guards AND I randomise where the Princess is and I can still beat the heroes convincingly (they are getting closer, 5 tries so far).

We feel that Belit without guards and OL choosing where the princess is located is basically a cake walk for the OL.


No argument at all that the scenario is slanted heavily towards the OL. One change we've found that evened things up a lot was to switch Belit for Savage Belit. Savage Belit's ability to carry the Princess whilst retaining the Evade skill is a major boost for the heroes, and as she doesn't us Guards anyway she doesn't feel hobbled without them.
 
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anthony dybacz
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High Flying Bird wrote:


No argument at all that the scenario is slanted heavily towards the OL. One change we've found that evened things up a lot was to switch Belit for Savage Belit. Savage Belit's ability to carry the Princess whilst retaining the Evade skill is a major boost for the heroes, and as she doesn't us Guards anyway she doesn't feel hobbled without them.


That would be a significant boost, to both movement and attack. It also might be needed...

I mentioned this scenario in counter to mathhat's mention of unbalancing the Heart of Darkness scenario; playing scenarios 'as is' can also be unbalanced.

Some scenarios an extra character will slot in easily and others might require a little more than gem manipulation (in Heart of Darkness I would give Skuthus more wounds, probably +2). Incidently, we find Heart of Darkness to be one of the more balanced scenarios.
 
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Mathieu Hatt
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CardboardAnt wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:


No argument at all that the scenario is slanted heavily towards the OL. One change we've found that evened things up a lot was to switch Belit for Savage Belit. Savage Belit's ability to carry the Princess whilst retaining the Evade skill is a major boost for the heroes, and as she doesn't us Guards anyway she doesn't feel hobbled without them.


That would be a significant boost, to both movement and attack. It also might be needed...

I mentioned this scenario in counter to mathhat's mention of unbalancing the Heart of Darkness scenario; playing scenarios 'as is' can also be unbalanced.

Some scenarios an extra character will slot in easily and others might require a little more than gem manipulation (in Heart of Darkness I would give Skuthus more wounds, probably +2). Incidently, we find Heart of Darkness to be one of the more balanced scenarios.


We should have started with the standard setup and then play the alternate one with an additional hero, but we did the opposite because we started the evening with 5 players and one left after the first game
Since this was the first try for this scenario for everyone, neither the heroes nor the OL had any pre-conceive strategy regarding how to address this scenario. In my next 5-player try of the heart of darkness, I will likely add 2 hit points to Skuthus, and perhaps also add 2 hyenas (for a total of 5 instead of 3). Note that we also replaced (for both tries) Conan and Belit by their Brom Guest box version (queen of the dark coast and Conan the thief).
 
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anthony dybacz
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mathhatt wrote:

We should have started with the standard setup and then play the alternate one with an additional hero, but we did the opposite because we started the evening with 5 players and one left after the first game


I broke the scenario were Skuthus raises the dead (cannot remember its name off the top of my head) by allowing Balthus as a character; his ranged attacks ignore Skuthus' protection ability meaning he just sniped him.
That was a harsh lesson in how skills can break a scenario. Wont be making that mistake again... blush
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Justin Colm
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CardboardAnt wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:


No argument at all that the scenario is slanted heavily towards the OL. One change we've found that evened things up a lot was to switch Belit for Savage Belit. Savage Belit's ability to carry the Princess whilst retaining the Evade skill is a major boost for the heroes, and as she doesn't us Guards anyway she doesn't feel hobbled without them.


That would be a significant boost, to both movement and attack. It also might be needed...

I mentioned this scenario in counter to mathhat's mention of unbalancing the Heart of Darkness scenario; playing scenarios 'as is' can also be unbalanced.

Some scenarios an extra character will slot in easily and others might require a little more than gem manipulation (in Heart of Darkness I would give Skuthus more wounds, probably +2). Incidently, we find Heart of Darkness to be one of the more balanced scenarios.


The heroes playing with Savage Belit was the only time the heroes have won this scenario in our group. And the OL didn't play optimally with the Giant Snake. If he does that the heroes need near perfect strategy and little to no bad fortune, played as written. Savage Belit really forces the OL to rethink what he's doing or she will just snatch the princess from under the Snake's nose. No-one else can rescue her without the Snake being killed if the OL uses it properly.

Anyone who wants to try this by the way: we just equipped Savage Belit with a standard Sword and no other equipment.

We also allow Hadrathus to swap out his useless 'Area of Attack' spell for another similar one (the name of which I forget at this moment) which is slightly weaker, slightly cheaper but most importantly that he can actually use without doing more damage to himself than his enemies.

I'm in complete agreement with your main point: generally the scenarios as designed are not balanced anyway so people need to be less afraid of experimenting. I also totally agree that 'Heart of Darkness' seems one of the best balanced.
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anthony dybacz
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High Flying Bird wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with your main point: generally the scenarios as designed are not balanced anyway so people need to be less afraid of experimenting.


You were able to put this much more succinctly than I did, thanks
 
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glen bruton
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High Flying Bird wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with your main point: generally the scenarios as designed are not balanced anyway so people need to be less afraid of experimenting. I also totally agree that 'Heart of Darkness' seems one of the best balanced.


Good point. I like to think of it a bit like heroes quest. Sure some of those quests were stupid hard but it was still fun
 
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