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Viticulture» Forums » Strategy

Subject: How to get points without orders rss

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Cru Jones
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Each time I play Viticulture, I generally play the same basic strategy:
1. Get extra workers.
2. Get green cards
3. Get the advanced field buildings (forget their names).
4. Plant green cards.
5. Harvest.
6. Make wine.
7. Build cellar expansions.
8. Fill orders.

Maybe slight variations each time. I've come close to winning once or twice, and not come close many times. I have not won yet. Most of my plays are with more experienced players. We usually use the base game, although we have used some Tuscany expansions lately, including the new board, which I like.

I have read that other players can win or get lots of points by only filling one order or no orders.

How do you do this? Tasting room? Windmill? Both of them don't look like they will generate that many points.

Thanks.
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Simon Woodward
New Zealand
Hamilton
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Yes, you can get single points from several sources, including waking up late, selling grapes bonus, Windmill and Tasting Room, filling order bonus, and some yellow and blue cards, etc. If you're getting around 3+ of these points per year, you'll finish the game in the 8th year; it takes a long time to get the wine engine going, so you can beat it if everyone else if going wine. You can still fill an order or two along the way. It's harder if other people also try to do the same thing though.
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Val Ofiesh
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It's not a clear path to victory.
May be affected by the skill level and aggressiveness of competitors. I know people have tried to win without filling wine orders in my circle but not with any success.
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David Harrison
United States
Greenville
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manukajoe wrote:
... you'll finish the game in the 8th year; it takes a long time to get the wine engine going, so you can beat it if everyone else if going wine.


Finishing in the 8th year is actually rather slow. In fact, I believe all of my games have finished in the 7th year or sooner, and a competitive strategy can often finish in the 6th year.

Honestly, in the base game, I don't think winning without filling wine orders is viable unless you get really lucky in drawing your visitor cards and/or your opponents aren't very good.

Now, with the Tuscany board, things are a little different because there you have more options to trade things in for VPs, so it's at least a semi-viable strategy.
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RvdH
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coblackmagus wrote:
manukajoe wrote:
... you'll finish the game in the 8th year; it takes a long time to get the wine engine going, so you can beat it if everyone else if going wine.


Finishing in the 8th year is actually rather slow. In fact, I believe all of my games have finished in the 7th year or sooner, and a competitive strategy can often finish in the 6th year.


The year the game ends depends largely on which version of Viticulture you're playing. The Essential Edition usually takes less years than the original. And if you play the original, it also depends if you upgraded your summer and winter visitors to the advanced visitors.
The older visitors were not always useful, and thus they make the game longer. Finishing the game in 8 years is not uncommon in the original version, even with experienced players.
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Scott Mohnkern
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SpaceAlien wrote:
It's not a clear path to victory.
May be affected by the skill level and aggressiveness of competitors. I know people have tried to win without filling wine orders in my circle but not with any success.


We've had a couple of cases where people have tried the "no orders" strategy through a combination of tours, selling grapes, and picking up points through visitor cards.

They have come close several times, and we've got some pretty experienced players, so they tend to be pretty aggressive.

I think the "no wine" strategy might work with the right combination of players.

Which what makes this games so cool, is that the combination of players can have a huge impact on strategy.
 
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Scott Mohnkern
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coblackmagus wrote:
manukajoe wrote:
... you'll finish the game in the 8th year; it takes a long time to get the wine engine going, so you can beat it if everyone else if going wine.


Finishing in the 8th year is actually rather slow. In fact, I believe all of my games have finished in the 7th year or sooner, and a competitive strategy can often finish in the 6th year.

Honestly, in the base game, I don't think winning without filling wine orders is viable unless you get really lucky in drawing your visitor cards and/or your opponents aren't very good.

Now, with the Tuscany board, things are a little different because there you have more options to trade things in for VPs, so it's at least a semi-viable strategy.


True, I've been playing with the Tuscany expansions (well most of them) for awhile, and consider that "standard" Viticulture (My mistake). ON a basic board, you pretty much have to make wine to win. There just aren't enough other points in the game.
 
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Dirk Meijlof
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There is a papa or mama card that gives you the right starting building to start generating points quickly. But even then it's (and should be imo) almost impossible to win without fulfilling wine orders.

I know it's a race game, but I personally wouldn't like to win without even trying to fulfill a wine order. It's a game about producing and selling wine after all. And although I play to win, I like the experience more than just winning
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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I've won or been darn close with only filling one wine order a couple of times. I go for the Cottage, Tasting Room, and Windmill for this strategy. Make heavy use of the latter two for a steady dribble of VPs. The Cottage helps keep a constant flow of visitor cards through your hand which increases the odds of getting one to make a good opportunistic VP score.

The ironic thing is the last game was our first with Tuscany: Essential, and I saw more wine orders filled than most of our games to that point combined. I think I filled 4-5 myself. We had the Politico as one of the special workers, and my son was working the Trade space with that worker hard (I jumped ahead of him on the last year to put a stop to that devil ).

Edit: ninja'ed:

Dirk_M wrote:
There is a papa or mama card that gives you the right starting building to start generating points quickly. But even then it's (and should be imo) almost impossible to win without fulfilling wine orders.

I know it's a race game, but I personally wouldn't like to win without even trying to fulfill a wine order. It's a game about producing and selling wine after all. And although I play to win, I like the experience more than just winning

To be pedantic, no it isn't. It's a game about running a vineyard. The primary & obvious path is making & selling wine, but there's other ways as well.
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Michael Logan
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claudermilk wrote:
I've won or been darn close with only filling one wine order a couple of times. I go for the Cottage, Tasting Room, and Windmill for this strategy. Make heavy use of the latter two for a steady dribble of VPs. The Cottage helps keep a constant flow of visitor cards through your hand which increases the odds of getting one to make a good opportunistic VP score.

The ironic thing is the last game was our first with Tuscany: Essential, and I saw more wine orders filled than most of our games to that point combined. I think I filled 4-5 myself. We had the Politico as one of the special workers, and my son was working the Trade space with that worker hard (I jumped ahead of him on the last year to put a stop to that devil ).

Edit: ninja'ed:

Dirk_M wrote:
There is a papa or mama card that gives you the right starting building to start generating points quickly. But even then it's (and should be imo) almost impossible to win without fulfilling wine orders.

I know it's a race game, but I personally wouldn't like to win without even trying to fulfill a wine order. It's a game about producing and selling wine after all. And although I play to win, I like the experience more than just winning

To be pedantic, no it isn't. It's a game about running a vineyard. The primary & obvious path is making & selling wine, but there's other ways as well.


do you play with the updated Tasting Room where you need to have wine in your cellar in order to get the bonus point?
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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Yup. Always have played it that way.
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James Cheng
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I really haven't play as much Viti as I'd like, so my experience might be limited, but I have always been able to win in Year 7 with one or two order filled. These are with base game and with Ma & Pa + new visitor.
 
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Dirk Meijlof
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claudermilk wrote:
Yup. Always have played it that way.


So do I. I have VEE. (TEE arrived yesterday. Looking forward to try it.)
 
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Dirk Meijlof
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claudermilk wrote:
Dirk_M wrote:
There is a papa or mama card that gives you the right starting building to start generating points quickly. But even then it's (and should be imo) almost impossible to win without fulfilling wine orders.

I know it's a race game, but I personally wouldn't like to win without even trying to fulfill a wine order. It's a game about producing and selling wine after all. And although I play to win, I like the experience more than just winning

To be pedantic, no it isn't. It's a game about running a vineyard. The primary & obvious path is making & selling wine, but there's other ways as well.
Yup. you're right. It's about creating a winery according to the rules.

It's just me. I'm so stubborn that I want to believe that creating a winery should be about producing and selling wine (with some side activities to make extra income). I compare it with a bakery. If you run a bakery, you probably started it because you love bread and love making bread. So you won't be happy if running your bakery turns in something that hasn't anything to do with backing and selling bread anymore. Running a Vineyard by giving tours to visitors without selling any wine feels a bit like running an open air museum in stead of a bakery. That's why I personally don't like to try to wint the game with with a 'no wine order' strategy. But it's absolutely a legitimate (and maybe a pretty strong) strategy.
 
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Michael Logan
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crujones33 wrote:
Each time I play Viticulture, I generally play the same basic strategy:
1. Get extra workers.
2. Get green cards
3. Get the advanced field buildings (forget their names).
4. Plant green cards.
5. Harvest.
6. Make wine.
7. Build cellar expansions.
8. Fill orders.


here would be my general advise if we are talking the base game. try getting rid of step 2 and step 4. Get a trellis, plant your pinot and just make sure you harvest it every turn.

make sure you get wine cards requiring sparkling, as they work well with only pinot.

spend extra actions getting visitors to get extra points.


In my experience, many people spend too much time plant and that is the cause of their defeat.


2 player is where my primary experience comes, with more players there might be a value of getting a second field.

But in general, I value quantity of grapes over quality of grapes in this game.
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Eric Hogue
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O'fallon
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RvdH83 wrote:
The year the game ends depends largely on which version of Viticulture you're playing. The Essential Edition usually takes less years than the original. And if you play the original, it also depends if you upgraded your summer and winter visitors to the advanced visitors.
The older visitors were not always useful, and thus they make the game longer. Finishing the game in 8 years is not uncommon in the original version, even with experienced players.


That was not my experience at all. In the old version, you started with a Pinot. One of my common strategies was to take the wine order bonus, build the trellis, plant, and then harvest that Pinot every year. It never took me longer than 7 years to hit 20, people regularly did it in 6. Other players would plant more vines, and also reach 15-23 in 6 years.
 
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Eric Hogue
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mohnkern wrote:
We've had a couple of cases where people have tried the "no orders" strategy through a combination of tours, selling grapes, and picking up points through visitor cards.

They have come close several times, and we've got some pretty experienced players, so they tend to be pretty aggressive.


I usually found it possible to hit 20 within 7 years on a no-planting strategy. Once, I hit 23 in six years. It won less than half the time, but it was fun and challenging.
 
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Eric Hogue
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Dirk_M wrote:
It's just me. I'm so stubborn that I want to believe that creating a winery should be about producing and selling wine (with some side activities to make extra income). I compare it with a bakery. If you run a bakery, you probably started it because you love bread and love making bread. So you won't be happy if running your bakery turns in something that hasn't anything to do with backing and selling bread anymore. Running a Vineyard by giving tours to visitors without selling any wine feels a bit like running an open air museum in stead of a bakery. That's why I personally don't like to try to wint the game with with a 'no wine order' strategy. But it's absolutely a legitimate (and maybe a pretty strong) strategy.


You don't have a tour of a winery if there are no wines to be given. Bottles or cases of wine don't pay yearly dividends.

Thematically, the notion of residuals only makes sense if we are talking about very large batches that are being sold over years. If your strategy is not one of producing very large batches of wine for local distributors, it's like one of producing small batches of wine that you distribute yourself locally, which is what the tours represent.
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