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A Feast for Odin» Forums » Rules

Subject: Double upgrade question rss

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Jon Pessano
United States
Tampa
FL
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All,

For the double upgrade spot, can you just do it once (ie green to blue) OR are you required to do orange to green or red to blue?

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Grant
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The rules as written don't make it sound like you have an option. Double upgrade or nothing.
See below, single upgrades are fine!
 
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Jonas Vanschooren
Belgium
Beringen
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Thought you where allowed to be wasteful with this action and do a green just 1 upgrade and waste the double?
To lazy to do research but pretty sure the answer is already here somewhere.
 
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Bob Boberson
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jonpfl wrote:
All,

For the double upgrade spot, can you just do it once (ie green to blue) OR are you required to do orange to green or red to blue?

Thx
jonpfl


It doesn't say anywhere specifically but I assume you can for three reasons:

1. It's inefficient and thus you're not gaining an unfair advantage by upgrading tiles less.

2. On the two spaces where you can do a double upgrade the rule for the collection of goods alongside the double upgrade says up to more than once.

3. Various occupation cards that give the multiple upgrade ability such as Orient Shipper or Field Farmer specify up to in the text.

All of which suggests to me that, as a rule of thumb not utilising the maximum benefit from a bonus action is generally acceptable.
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̀Turning the Double Upgrade question into a Teilaktion / Effect / Action question....
I, too, would like to know the answer to this. The german rules are also not at all clear about this.

On the one hand, in the description of phase 5 on p. 9 it says
Quote:
Ihr dürft Aktionsfelder nur besetzen, wenn ihr auch mindestens eine Teilaktion des Feldes nutzt (allein das Bezahlen von Kosten gilt dabei schon als Teilaktion).

The key here is the word "Teilaktion", which means "part of an action". So here the rules say, that you may occupy a worker spot even if you use only a part of an action (from now on I'll use Teilaktion). The clarification states that paying the cost of the action as one example of a Teilaktion. Interestinlgy, the english translation uses the term effect rather than "part of an action":
Quote:
To occupy an action space, you must use at least one of its effects (paying a cost is also considered an effect in and of itself).

Sadly, I could not find a clear explanation of what a Teilaktion is supposed to be. Board spaces with two combined actions are a clear case in the sense that both separate actions probably constitute a Teilaktion each. But they seem to be more fine grained, since paying a cost already is a Teilaktion as well. Would paying only part of the cost (e.g., only 1 of 4 coins) also be a Teilaktion? Who knows!

On the other hand, we have the description of the trading actions on p. 16, where the confusion gets worse. German incoming:
Quote:
Die Teilaktion „2 Waren NN“ erlaubt euch, 2 eurer Marken je zweimal in Folge „aufzuwerten“: Tauscht eine orangefarbene gegen eine grüne Ware oder eine rote gegen eine blaue Ware.

Now the term Teilaktion is used to describe the whole process of upgrading two tiles twice. Does that mean you may upgrade either 0 or 2 goods twice? Or is allowed to upgrade only one good twice? Also note the explanation for the Teilaktion: It explicitly states that you trade an orange or a red into a green or a blue good, respectively. This might suggest that this space cannot be used to trade from green to blue.

What does the english manual have to say?
Quote:
The “NN 2 Goods” action allows you to “upgrade” 2 goods twice: you may exchange an orange good for a green one, or a red good for a blue one."

So now this space does not have an effect, as you might have expected, but it is an action. But again, the wording seems to suggest that orange->green and red->blue are the only possible trades you can make using this action.

What am I supposed to make of this? I just wish time and time again that rules writers would be more pedantic about how specific they phrase things...
 
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Chris Smith
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I've not looked in the rulebook for any official term, but I interpret it that you're allowed to upgrade a single time (And this is how I've answered it when players have asked).

The main reason from my perspective is the iconography - It shows 2 separate 'up' arrows (Indicating orange>red>green) which I interpret as 2 separate parts (I.e. Since you can do part actions, you can stop after 1).

I would expect something like a single arrow with 'x2' if it was a single-step action that couldn't be half-done.
 
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Jon Pessano
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Smoothsmith wrote:
I've not looked in the rulebook for any official term, but I interpret it that you're allowed to upgrade a single time (And this is how I've answered it when players have asked).

The main reason from my perspective is the iconography - It shows 2 separate 'up' arrows (Indicating orange>red>green) which I interpret as 2 separate parts (I.e. Since you can do part actions, you can stop after 1).

I would expect something like a single arrow with 'x2' if it was a single-step action that couldn't be half-done.


Interesting observation, never thought of that.

I just wish someone with definitive knowledge would answer.

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Erich Hsu
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California
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the occupation orient shipper..
ñññ = triple up arrows

When you play this card, you can immediately (and only once via this card) take a
“ñññ 1 Good” action, i.e., you can exchange an orange (or red or green) goods tile
for a blue one of the same dimensions. (For instance, you could exchange 1 fruits for
1 treasure chest in three steps, or 1 cattle for 1 silver hoard in just 2 steps.)

it's the same image on the action space (i think) so it should be legal to upgrade once
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trooperyosh wrote:
the occupation orient shipper..
ñññ = triple up arrows

When you play this card, you can immediately (and only once via this card) take a
“ñññ 1 Good” action, i.e., you can exchange an orange (or red or green) goods tile
for a blue one of the same dimensions. (For instance, you could exchange 1 fruits for
1 treasure chest in three steps, or 1 cattle for 1 silver hoard in just 2 steps.)

it's the same image on the action space (i think) so it should be legal to upgrade once


For me this is the correct response. Thank you for finding this.
 
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Frank Heeren
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jonpfl wrote:
All,

For the double upgrade spot, can you just do it once (ie green to blue) OR are you required to do orange to green or red to blue?

Thx
jonpfl

Yes, you can use this action to do single upgrades only.
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Grant
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nan3000 wrote:
jonpfl wrote:
All,

For the double upgrade spot, can you just do it once (ie green to blue) OR are you required to do orange to green or red to blue?

Thx
jonpfl

Yes, you can use this action to do single upgrades only.

Frank, you are on a question-answering rampage today! Thanks for taking the time!
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