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Subject: Recommendation needed, HIS replacement. rss

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Roger Reisinger
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Hi guys,

So my game group has played Here I Stand 4 or 5 times now and really enjoys some aspects of the game like the history, combat, and politics. One part of the game which seems to be universally disliked and has killed it with my group is the religious portion, specifically the back and forth dice rolling of flipping religious control. People in my group just do not want to play the Protestants or Catholics and would prefer to play powers with more military focus. I'm hoping somewhere out there is a game that is as deeply rewarding as a CDG that allows all players to pursue a military focus.

Requirements:

6 player
Historical
CDG
Combat driven/ militaristic
Playable in 6-8 hours

If HIS was 6 asymetrical military factions it would be perfect for us, does Virgin Queen remove the bucket of dice that is the religious wars?

Thanks for any help!
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Eddy Sterckx
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I was thinking Empires in Arms, but that's not a CDG - but it does meet your other criteria
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Marty Sample
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Virgin Queen still has conversion, but mechanically its a lot cleaner, in that the player throws a predetermined number of dice, with a result of 6 being pretty much an auto convert and 1 a revolt marker. There is no defense roll, and its a single roll, not one per space. The Protestant is also more militarily capable from the get go. That said, if you want pure military, Virgin Queen also has more non military stuff - voyages of exploration, more piracy capable powers, sponsoring scientists/artists.
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Aaron Yoder
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Virgin Queen does indeed streamline the religious aspects. After playing both half a dozen times, VQ is my game of choice.
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Luka Kovač Plavi
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Living with your parents and kids in the same household.
Fits all requirements other than being a CDG, unless you take a very broad definition and state that bills are types of cards
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Marty Sample
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Other than Virgin Queen, I don't know of any other 6 player CDGs. The next "biggest" one is Napoleanic Wars, which is 5 player; however Prussia is often considered to be less interesting to play, as they start the game off neutral and in some games, stay that way for several turns.

4 player CDG - that opens up a lot of possibilities.
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Jorik
Netherlands
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Two tables of Clash of Monarchs?
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Carsten Bohne
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Quartermaster General? Its certainly not as deep as HIS, but might be worth a look anyway...
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Clay Stone
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Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg!




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Steven Mitchell
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Though I love both HIS and VQ and count them collectively as my favorite game, I'd say there's even less military in VQ than in HIS. I'd recommend Napoleonic Wars, but it only seats five. Other than those two.... you're kinda out of luck.
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Bob Holmstrom
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Sword of Rome can play 5. Successors can as well.
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Roger Reisinger
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Thanks for the quick response and all the great suggestions guys.

We play almost exclusively 6 player games so that is my focus, and am specifically looking for a similar replacement for Here I Stand. We do play Quartermaster General, Axis and Allies, Game of Thrones, Twilight Imperium, Dominant Species, Eclipse, etc. What made HIS stand out was the CDG mechanic and the historical context of the game.

I took a look at Empire in Arms but the playtime is something like 100 hours for the campaign game. I guess one requirement I forgot to mention was playtime should be able to be completed in one day, approx. 6-8 hours.

I've tried Napoleonic Wars and Genesis. i preferred Nappy Wars but you are right it only seats 5, and really is better at 4 players.

Maybe the game I am wanting just hasn't been designed yet. I'll take a closer look at VQ, it may not have as much military interaction as I am looking for but might be the closet and best thing available at this time.

Thanks again!
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Marty Sample
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Dune plays six. Not card driven , but a very good game.
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Warren Bruhn
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Strategery21 wrote:
Sword of Rome can play 5. Successors can as well.


I agree with Bob re Sword of Rome and I've heard good things about Successors (third edition). Although they don't handle 6 players, your group could try these whenever there's a player who can't make it.

CDG is a limiting factor. I thought HIS took too long with 6 players in the round robin of card play. But I suppose that can be said of any 6 or 7 player game where all the players wait for the others to play in sequence.

If your group is willing to consider a non-CDG that must be played out over many sessions rather than a single session, potentially one of the great multi-player experiences is a long campaign of Empires in Arms. I say potentially because it can be a bad experience with the wrong players. There is a lot written about EiA here on BGG. You can read session reports to get an idea of what it's like to play this long game. Try reading my reports of the Portland campaign that started in 2010 and ended in 2014:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/505256/aar-2010-portlan...

If your group ever needs a break from the military focus, and wants to focus more on diplomacy, there is also that weird old game Pax Britannica. It plays best with 6 players (leave out Italy), and many games can end in 6-8 hours (can last 10 hours if it goes all the way to 1920):

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1209/pax-britannica

There was a "play by forum" game played out here on BGG that ended early with a Great War, and it's on the forum on that Pax Britannica BGG page. Good illustration of how that game plays though, so worth a look.
 
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Osprey
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patton1138 wrote:
Though I love both HIS and VQ and count them collectively as my favorite game, I'd say there's even less military in VQ than in HIS. I'd recommend Napoleonic Wars, but it only seats five. Other than those two.... you're kinda out of luck.


I agree with Steven here. Napoleonic Wars would be ideal but it's best played with the full 5 people. However, we have had 6 play and allowed the extra player to play Spain. Not the most glamorous country to play but we still have fun with it.
 
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Bob Holmstrom
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I haven't played it yet, but Holy Roman Empire might work. It's not a cdg but is 6 players.
 
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Britannia or Maharaja
 
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gary guyton
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If you are willing to travel into unexplored territory, I'd suggest Clash of Monarchs. It's designed as a 2-4 player game, but I think it could be played with 6 using just a bit of imagination. Players would be Prussian, Austrian, Holy Roman Empire, English, French, and Russian. Players could cooperate along historical lines...or not. Sequence of play and all the rest shouldn't be too hard to work out, including Victory.

Personally, I think I could enjoy the "working it out" aspect as much, perhaps, as actual play. That's just me, of course.

I'd also like to second Dune as a great 6 player game. SF, but captures the feel of the novel quite well.

Would that make it "historical"?
 
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Sean T
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Empires in Arms is a neat game. But its from a different time period. It's long - 100+ hours for the full 6 player campaign game according to the box. My group tried it over the summer and after three 4-6 hour sessions we had just made it through the second turn. Your group seems to be fine with dense, longish games so you might have good luck with it. But I would put EiA at another level up from HIS.

Dune is an excellent suggestion. You can even get by with the Fantasy Flight re-theme Rex. I've played both many times and Rex has some interesting tweaks, but the artwork is very busy. I prefer the original if you can manage it. Not a CDG, but the asymmetrical powers of each faction and the unique combat mechanics allow for a lot of replay-ability and variety from game to game.

A game already in your collection that I was going to suggest is Pax Porfiriana. It has a lot of history packed in its many cards and plays 6 pretty well. If you haven't managed to get it to the table, I would try that one.

Another cheeky suggestion would be to get another copy of Triumph & Tragedy and have two games of that. :-) We have multiple copies in our group and have done this from time to time.

Just thought of one more possibility:

Fief: France 1429 I haven't played it myself yet, but I've been wanting to and it plays 6. It's an older game, rules wise, updated with modern components.
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John Carnahan
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Consider Struggle of Empires Plays well with 5-7. Playing time is segmented into "wars" that can be scored individually, so you don't have to go long if you don't want to. Good balance of military and other goals & an open ended but persuasive view of the (Spanish / Austrian / English / Polish) Succession Wars. In other words, edgy and crazy.
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Rex Stites
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milsimmer wrote:
If you are willing to travel into unexplored territory, I'd suggest Clash of Monarchs. It's designed as a 2-4 player game, but I think it could be played with 6 using just a bit of imagination. Players would be Prussian, Austrian, Holy Roman Empire, English, French, and Russian. Players could cooperate along historical lines...or not. Sequence of play and all the rest shouldn't be too hard to work out, including Victory.


No. It's a 2-4 player game. Full stop.

There's no real way to add more players to it. If you were really experienced with the game, you might be able to tinker around and make something work for a Russian player. The HRE is essentially a non-entity in the game, at least as compared to the actual player powers.

I'm not sure I'd even recommend it 4-player. The British are limited in what they do in the game and it probably works better to just have one player controlling both Britain/Prussia.
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Paul - the
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If you skip the historical part Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) would be a great choice for you. Seeing how people already suggested Dune this shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Ok, saw you already played that.

I can add that while I love HIS, I think VQ is borderline broken and not fun at all to play. Too many take that cards, too many VP awarded by luck of the draw, too little incentive to attack as that leaves you open for attacks from other players. Draw great cards and roll high and you'll win, who needs strategy?
 
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Dan Rivera
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Successors (third edition) fits most of your criteria except it only plays 4. but to be honest it could probably be adapted fairly easy to 6.

Triumph & Tragedy Same but only supports 3.

Virgin Queen fits all of your criteria but its a bit more drawn out and while it still has the religious aspect its definitely streamlined.

and for something completely out of left field if you can find 1 more Diplomacy is amazingly deep and rewarding game.
 
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Jordi Cairol
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Battle for Baghdad is an excellent 6-player game. Even though it is not a CDG it has a lot of cards in it and they play a crucial role in the game. Otherwise, it meets your criteria. The game has the same mechanics as the most acclaimed Dune.
 
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Paul - the
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The Republic of Rome perhaps? While not combat driven per se it's bloodier than most other games I know.
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