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Subject: Sand's End -- Miami Beach has run out of sand. Now what? rss

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Steven Woodcock
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I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...
 
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Andy Beaton
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Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Thanks Trump!
 
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J.D. Hall
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Meh. Ever watch an NFL game? See those little pebbles kicked up by the players? Stain 'em whitish-brown, pour them on the beach. Problem solved.

Or extend Trump's Wall to keep illegal sea erosion at bay. Stock with mutated sea bass. Problem solved.
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Steven Woodcock
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aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret
 
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Steven Woodcock
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TheChin! wrote:
Thanks Trump!


Actually, since they're out of sand now it seems to be an Obama thing here....


Ferret
 
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J.D. Hall
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That's true. Isn't anyone else suspicious that suddenly Kenya is touting its beach front-like resorts?
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Ferretman wrote:
Actually, since they're out of sand now it seems to be an Obama thing here....
That's the joke, I'm starting as early as I can to mock all the people who blamed things on Obama when he possibly couldn't be the culprit, especially at the beginning of his Presidency.
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Andy Beaton
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Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


So. Is global warming a thing yet?
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Christopher Dearlove
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Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Good piece. Thanks.
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Les Marshall
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aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


So. Is global warming a thing yet?


Beaches come, beaches go. Same with glaciers. Carbon and methane in the atmosphere. Nothing to see here move along.
 
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Greg Michealson
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Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


Well somebody said it so it must be true. When Blaze, Drudge and Breitbart write articles about it I'm sure you'll be on board.

The moon landings were faked too.
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Steven Woodcock
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aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


So. Is global warming a thing yet?


I'm not sure how that has much to do with beaches, but I see no evidence of it...why?



Ferret
 
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Steven Woodcock
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mrspank wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


Well somebody said it so it must be true. When Blaze, Drudge and Breitbart write articles about it I'm sure you'll be on board.

The moon landings were faked too.



Um...what?

This was TheVerge I think.



Ferret
 
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jeremy cobert
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aiabx wrote:
So. Is global warming a thing yet?


Nope.

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Steven Woodcock
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Rulesjd wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


So. Is global warming a thing yet?


Beaches come, beaches go. Same with glaciers. Carbon and methane in the atmosphere. Nothing to see here move along.


That's about right.



Ferret
 
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Daniel Kearns
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Can I ask, and I'm not being judgemental, but if someone here does not believe in global warming, can you tell me why you don't believe it? Also, is there anything that would change your mind? Who would you trust to change your mind on this issue?

I'm a scientist and knowing this would be helpful to me.
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Steven Woodcock
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dkearns wrote:
Can I ask, and I'm not being judgemental, but if someone here does not believe in global warming, can you tell me why you don't believe it? Also, is there anything that would change your mind? Who would you trust to change your mind on this issue?

I'm a scientist and knowing this would be helpful to me.


I'm also a scientist. There is simply evidence of it, it's basically pretty simple.

I'm open if there would be any evidence. Right now global warming flunks the very basic tenets of scientific method--repeatedly. If we had a hundred or so Earths (a thousand would be better) we'd have something to go by I guess.

I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?



Ferret
 
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Daniel Kearns
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Ferretman wrote:

I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?
Ferret


I believe it global warming due to an annual average increase in temperature.

Briefly, this does a good job representing by beliefs.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

I'm a bacteriologist, what kind of scientist are you?

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Andy Beaton
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Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...


Don't be ridiculous. It's a hoax perpetrated by Chinese resorts.


Hmmmm...........


Ferret


So. Is global warming a thing yet?


I'm not sure how that has much to do with beaches, but I see no evidence of it...why?



Ferret


I read the article. Beach erosion is exacerbated by rising sea levels. Miami is already having serious problems with rising sea levels getting into the aquifer. Rising sea levels are a predicted consequence of global warming. Didn't you read the article?
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Greg Michealson
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Ferretman wrote:
dkearns wrote:
Can I ask, and I'm not being judgemental, but if someone here does not believe in global warming, can you tell me why you don't believe it? Also, is there anything that would change your mind? Who would you trust to change your mind on this issue?

I'm a scientist and knowing this would be helpful to me.


I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?

Ferret


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

Please tell me which parts of that article are false and why. Do you think everything in the article is false?

Beach erosion will cost Miami a lot by 2070.

http://therealdeal.com/miami/2016/08/16/miami-faces-3-5t-los...

I realize any article to which I link will be rejected as junk science. May as well keep trying though.
 
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Ferretman wrote:
I had no idea there were so many kinds of sand:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand...

do you put salt on your beach~
 
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Les Marshall
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Ferretman wrote:
dkearns wrote:
Can I ask, and I'm not being judgemental, but if someone here does not believe in global warming, can you tell me why you don't believe it? Also, is there anything that would change your mind? Who would you trust to change your mind on this issue?

I'm a scientist and knowing this would be helpful to me.


I'm also a scientist. There is simply evidence of it, it's basically pretty simple.

I'm open if there would be any evidence. Right now global warming flunks the very basic tenets of scientific method--repeatedly. If we had a hundred or so Earths (a thousand would be better) we'd have something to go by I guess.

I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?



Ferret


What kind of scientist are you?

I was an insurance defense attorney. I know something about criminal law and estates and real property. However, I don't claim expertise outside my field.

So, what is your field?
 
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Steven Woodcock
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I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?

dkearns wrote:

I believe it global warming due to an annual average increase in temperature.


Very well put; thank you.

The immediate temperature increases look to me to map quite nicely after the last Ice Age:

https://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq/how-much-has-global-temper...

Looking at the long view, it appears they're pretty much on the cool side historically:

https://chemtrailsplanet.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/easterb...

dkearns wrote:

Briefly, this does a good job representing by beliefs.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/


The problem here is that evidence you're summarizing is interesting, but I don't feel it's convincing. It's compelling yes, but convincing is a whole 'nother level. What I see of it uses wiggle words that boils down to "we can't think of any thing else that is causing it".

That's not science.

dkearns wrote:

I'm a bacteriologist, what kind of scientist are you?


A computer science nerd mostly, though I've become more and more a rocket engineer over time.


Ferret
 
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Ferretman wrote:
dkearns wrote:
Can I ask, and I'm not being judgemental, but if someone here does not believe in global warming, can you tell me why you don't believe it? Also, is there anything that would change your mind? Who would you trust to change your mind on this issue?

I'm a scientist and knowing this would be helpful to me.


I'm also a scientist. There is simply evidence of it, it's basically pretty simple.

I'm open if there would be any evidence. Right now global warming flunks the very basic tenets of scientific method--repeatedly. If we had a hundred or so Earths (a thousand would be better) we'd have something to go by I guess.

I'm curious--why you think there is global warming? Why do you believe this? Would you be open to trust changing your mind if you got to the contrary?


That's not addressed at me, but let's address it.

It's a fact that the overwhelming number of experts in the subject in question believe that (a) the planet is warming, and (b) a major factor in that is human-caused emissions of CO2 (whose concentration in the atmosphere has been rising, another fact).

Now normally, that's considered at the least as a pretty good indication that something is going on. But let's hold that and go on.

There's other good evidence accessible to all that is consistent with the theory. The hottest years on record have been this century. There are a lot more glaciers in retreat than advancing (I don't know if any are advancing). There's a definite (small but measurable) rise in seas levels. And more. So it passes the basic plausibility tests.

Now future quantitative predictions are harder. They are based on models, and while I only deal with much simpler models, models are limited. But there are two things you can almost always say in such cases (a) the experts know not only more than the layman does, or the layman thinks the expert does, but more than the layman thinks the expert can possibly know, and (b) the expert does however know less than he thinks he does.

Collectively that adds up to that warning is happening is a bet no bookie would give odds against (only against specific predictions that might be undershot). But how much warming there will be is uncertain. Unfortunately even the lowest plausible bound is more than is good for Miami Beach and a lot more. The highest plausible bound is catastrophic. But also in what timescale is uncertain (same two points again).

So, in short, if doubting specific details and exact sizes and timescales that's not unreasonable - though without being an expert all you can do is doubt. And your doubt better include that things are really bad in your range of doubt. If of the "there is no evidence of any effect" that's worse than even the proverbial ostrich (the real ostrich is not that stupid). If in the "it's all a hoax" camp then go join the flat earthers, the moon landing hoaxers, the six thousand year old earthers, the homeopaths and far too many more in the remedial idiots class.

(There is a view of "apres moi la deluge" (too lazy to go accents) where you reckon things will be OK for your lifetime and after that who cares? That's not exactly public spirited, but honest.)
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