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Pax Renaissance» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Poor but farsighted, a new age of sail begins ! rss

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Piero
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Quick summary of the game.

Me -> Fugger
Nicola -> Marchionni
Peter -> Medici

Both I and Peter were able to invest heavily in the east. I was able to Crown the Hungarian and Byzantine empires. Peter went for the Ottomans through a Conspiracy. Nicola was trying to do a Trade Shift to the Spice Islands and so conspired in Portugal. But his machinations were thwarted by Peter whose counter-machinations made the shift impossible.

At the beginning of the game since all trade routes passed through the east, both I and Peter were making a lot of florins. But we also were at each other's throats, I using a pirate campaign through the Knights Hospitalier, Peter by Campaigning my Hungary through the Ottomans.

Nicola was left to his own devices, without florins, but also any significant opposition, and gained France with a Peasant Revolt, and then England with a Vote.

The war in the east intensified. Vlad Tepes showed his bloodthirsty head. I crushed and pillaged the Ottomans with my Janissaries. An Inquisition Pope made his appearance in the Papal States - that will remain locked into a fanatic struggle for the rest of the game.

Then a series of Holy Wars broke up, Mamluk become Christian, and the first Comet appeared in the skies. I went for the Religious Victory, but I was one move short of true victory: in Nicola's turn, he invested in the Islamic version of a theologian, and harsh religious debate made my hopes for a Christian religious victory wane. The last nail in the coffin were a series of Jihads where both Mamluk and Hungary the Ottoman became Islamic States. I still had some influence in Islam, but I needed more, only... a... little... more. Peter, the bastard, held influence both on Vlad and his traitorous brother - with influence in Islam. Now, where are Beheads when you need them?

In the meanwhile Nicola saw the new comet and activated the Globalization Victory. Our efforts to avoid his sudden victory with a Pirate campaign fell short and he was able, even if the poorest and the less militarized off all bankers to achieve victory!

Nicola's slow but steady infiltration of the west gave him the means to spread his Concessions and Portugal gave him the only Exploration influence there was.

As a comment I can say that I was a little harrowed by the experience. While playing with all the rules correctly is not an easy exercise, being able to play well, or in any significant way is very hard.

A lot of plays are needed to get a sense of what to do and when to do it. As for now, my lesson is that you need to be very subtle in your efforts, you need to position yourself softly before striking hard with a surprise move.

In other words, among bankers, guile carries the day.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
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Gorgoneion wrote:
I still had some influence in Islam, but I needed more, only... a... little... more. Peter, the bastard, held influence both on Vlad and his traitorous brother - with influence in Islam. Now, where are Beheads when you need them? [/b]


But surely you had more Islam influence than Nicola and could win off that.
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Piero
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I was tied with Peter on Islam, I could not claim victory.
 
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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Little Canada
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
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golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
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Unless I ended up misinterpreting Phil Eklund twice, more influence than any player means literally more influence than any one player.
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Piero
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surprisesurprisesurprisesurprisesurprise

Surprisingly then it is not so difficult to pull off a Religious Victory! surprise

Again, there was a black and a white bishop in the game, therefore Christianity couldn't claim to be the Supreme Religion, and so I couldn't claim victory. But in the second part of the game I introduced another black bishop, therefore Islam would have been the Supreme Religion, and, yes, I could have claimed victory. cool
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Rich James
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golden_cow2 wrote:

Yikes! I didn't think that was the interpretation. I've posted in the thread to ask for further clarification. I think you have to have more prestige than each of your opponents, considering each individually.
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Piero
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arjisme wrote:
golden_cow2 wrote:

Yikes! I didn't think that was the interpretation. I've posted in the thread to ask for further clarification. I think you have to have more prestige than each of your opponents, considering each individually.


On the good side, that means that as soon as the Comet arrives, victories will be pretty easily achieved, provided you have enough florins to get it when the time comes. That makes for shorter games, which is a bonus in my book.
 
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Stefano Tine'
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No, you played it correctly. You need more prestige than any other player.

To win, you must have more Prestige in the supreme Religion than any of your opponents.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
"Any" is singular. "Each of your opponents", "Every one of your opponents", or "Have the most influence" would be more natural phrases to use if you had to beat everyone, which is why I asked for clarification in the first place.
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Piero
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Life and death come and go like marionettes dancing on a table. Once their strings are cut, they easily crumble.
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barbanera wrote:
No, you played it correctly. You need more prestige than any other player.

To win, you must have more Prestige in the supreme Religion than any of your opponents.


Ok, I can see we have a Diet of Worms of sorts here.

But I guess the rules make more sense in this way even if it could be worth to playtest the alternative interpretation proposed.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
flag msg tools
It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
I've posted on the living rules to clarify the clarification, which should be faster than waiting on BGG.

For the record, I can see it going either way.
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Rich James
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Thanks. If it is as Stefano asserts, then in the case where you have 3 players:

player 1: 0 prestige
player 2: 1 prestige
player 3: 2 prestige

Then it could be said that both players 2 & 3 could win since they both have more prestige that player 1. Then it would be down to which one got the first chance to declare victory. It could happen that player 1 could win, despite having less prestige than player 2.

This really amounts to asking if you have to have more prestige than your strongest opponent in that prestige or more than your weakest opponent in that prestige.
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Steve Carey
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arjisme wrote:

player 1: 0 prestige
player 2: 1 prestige
player 3: 2 prestige


Our interpretation is that only player 3 can win in this scenario.
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Ken Sinn
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The Win condition is that you must have more influence/empires/prestige/etc than each other player, considered/compared individually.

In a 3P game, P1 must have more X than P2 and more X than P3.
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Karl Hanf
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golden_cow2 wrote:
"Any" is singular. "Each of your opponents", "Every one of your opponents", or "Have the most influence" would be more natural phrases to use if you had to beat everyone, which is why I asked for clarification in the first place.

Your rephrasings are clearer, yes, but I think you're overthinking it. How would you interpret someone saying "I ate more than any of you!" ?
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Stefano Tine'
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arjisme wrote:
Thanks. If it is as Stefano asserts, then in the case where you have 3 players:

player 1: 0 prestige
player 2: 1 prestige
player 3: 2 prestige

Then it could be said that both players 2 & 3 could win since they both have more prestige that player 1. Then it would be down to which one got the first chance to declare victory. It could happen that player 1 could win, despite having less prestige than player 2.

This really amounts to asking if you have to have more prestige than your strongest opponent in that prestige or more than your weakest opponent in that prestige.


You got me wrong, or confused with someone else, or perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I am saying is that you need to have more prestige than everybody else. Therefore, in your example, only player 3 can claim Holy Victory.

I am pretty sure that's what Phil wanted to say, anyway. (In earlier revisions of the rules, during beta test, I think you even had to have more prestige than all opponents combined, but then that was toned down).

I think Phil's wording ".. than any of your opponents" conveys exactly that meaning, but English is not my mother tongue.

Edit: my "you played it right" was referred to the OP saying he could not claim victory as he was tied with another player in Islamic (?) prestige. They played it correctly.
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