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Interesting take on yet another attempt to link Brexit with Trump's win:

http://us.cnn.com/2016/11/18/opinions/end-of-liberal-era-gar...

I did find it interesting the author, part of perhaps the last true Tory government in the UK, did not rail against the end of imperialism, universal health care, equal rights for minorities and women, free trade, government regulation of business, social safety nets, and other significant wins for liberalism in democratic, industrial societies. His aim was more toward the EU and the theory of globalism (can you say OneWorldOrder? Sure you can).

I don't know if Brexit and Trump signify the end of the liberal era. With the rapid changes in technology and its impact on jobs and economies, plus a more interconnected world via Internet/social media communication and trade, many people fear being left behind, and feel disquieted by the overthrow (in their minds) of traditional values of patriotism, religion, and culture. It's really a trend that stretches back to the beginning of the 20th Century, when more than two-thirds of people living in the West still lived on family farms or in small communities that service agricultural enterprises. The shift toward urban living, industrial jobs and now technological economies may seem to individuals as taking a long time, but two centuries compared to eight millennia of human "civilization" is amazingly fast.

Still, I think there are good points in what the opinion writer says.
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Chris Binkowski
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A small yet relevant point against the EU,and by extension, Obama's/hillary's form of Federal Government:

 
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remorseless1 wrote:
Interesting take on yet another attempt to link Brexit with Trump's win:

http://us.cnn.com/2016/11/18/opinions/end-of-liberal-era-gar...

I did find it interesting the author, part of perhaps the last true Tory government in the UK, did not rail against the end of imperialism, universal health care, equal rights for minorities and women, free trade, government regulation of business, social safety nets, and other significant wins for liberalism in democratic, industrial societies. His aim was more toward the EU and the theory of globalism (can you say OneWorldOrder? Sure you can).

I don't know if Brexit and Trump signify the end of the liberal era. With the rapid changes in technology and its impact on jobs and economies, plus a more interconnected world via Internet/social media communication and trade, many people fear being left behind, and feel disquieted by the overthrow (in their minds) of traditional values of patriotism, religion, and culture. It's really a trend that stretches back to the beginning of the 20th Century, when more than two-thirds of people living in the West still lived on family farms or in small communities that service agricultural enterprises. The shift toward urban living, industrial jobs and now technological economies may seem to individuals as taking a long time, but two centuries compared to eight millennia of human "civilization" is amazingly fast.

Still, I think there are good points in what the opinion writer says.


Couldn't come too soon.

Great lady though. Was able to meet with her for a good hour one afternoon; amazingly understanding, very incisive.


Ferret
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Christopher Dearlove
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SoRCon 8 27 Feb - 1 Mar 2015 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk Essex Games 27 Jul '15
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Thatcher wasn't the last true Tory, she was the first of a new wave. She wasn't the candidate of the Conservative establishment, and she deliberately broke much of the post-war consensus from Churchill to Heath (on the Conservative side).
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Chris
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Before the election we were discussing the end of the Republican era. How Hillary had won and the party was destroyed. We see how that turned out. So any story that goes on about the end of any ideology or party gets an eye roll from me. Just like I said the GOP was far from dead pre-election, liberalism is far from dead.

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casey r lowe
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Patrick Dignam
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Wishful thinking IMO.

The devil's greatest trick was to convince the world that he didn't exist.
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10/₆
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"Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature"
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Please. The US is heading more liberal than ever. A Trump "win". Yeah, more like the U.S. is so liberal that 50% of them didn't have a candidate worth the liberal vote. Trump won 25% of the voting electorate, which mean 75% of America didn't want that floating turd in office. Even RSP conservatives admit if Bernie Sanders had won the primary, he probably would have left Trump in the dust. What is that saying? Yes, this is a country heading liberal.

This whole "Trump" mandate is silly. The republicans lost their primary, and the democrats lot the election. The only thing a Trump win signifies is that the 2 parties are out of touch.
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Steven Woodcock
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MWChapel wrote:
Please. The US is heading more liberal than ever. A Trump "win". Yeah, more like the U.S. is so liberal that 50% of them didn't have a candidate worth the liberal vote. Trump won 25% of the voting electorate, which mean 75% of America didn't want that floating turd in office. Even RSP conservatives admit if Bernie Sanders had won the primary, he probably would have left Trump in the dust. What is that saying? Yes, this is a country heading liberal.

This whole "Trump" mandate is silly. The republicans lost their primary, and the democrats lot the election. The only thing a Trump win signifies is that the 2 parties are out of touch.


How did they exactly "lose" the primary?

The Democratic primary was jury-rigged for an outcome for her and throwing out their one semi reasonable candidate, but it's not fair to say the Republican party "lost" at all. They destroyed the Democrat party.

Trump is very definitely not a conservative though--this populism is sure gonna be interesting all around.





Ferret
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Pete Goch
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They lost the primary by failing to nominate an actual republican candidate.
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Ferretman wrote:


How did they exactly "lose" the primary?

The Democratic primary was jury-rigged for an outcome for her and throwing out their one semi reasonable candidate, but it's not fair to say the Republican party "lost" at all. They destroyed the Democrat party.

Trump is very definitely not a conservative though--this populism is sure gonna be interesting all around.


Ferret


#1. Trump is NOT a Republican. The Republican primary nominated someone who was not a Republican, therefore, the "Republicans" lost the primary.

#2. The Republicans did NOT destroy the Democrats, Trump eeked out a Pyrrhic victory by the slightest of margins with only 25% of the entire voting electorate. That by definition is not "Destroying the Democrats"

#3. The Democratic primary was not jury rigged. Clinton won because she had 4 million more votes, 25 points ahead of sanders. They nominated a "Democrat". Bernie Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. That is because the "Democrat" party isn't the "Liberal" party as idiots here keep saying is.

#4. The Democrats and the Republicans lost the election. A Populist demagogue who usurped the Republican primary won the election against a Democrat. But he would have lost to Bernie Sanders who is an Independent.

#5. Hence, the Republican and Democratic party are just out of step from what America really is....which is an increasingly Liberal country.
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Steve Fitt
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MWChapel wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


How did they exactly "lose" the primary?

The Democratic primary was jury-rigged for an outcome for her and throwing out their one semi reasonable candidate, but it's not fair to say the Republican party "lost" at all. They destroyed the Democrat party.

Trump is very definitely not a conservative though--this populism is sure gonna be interesting all around.


Ferret


#1. Trump is NOT a Republican. The Republican primary nominated someone who was not a Republican, therefore, the "Republicans" lost the primary.

#2. The Republicans did NOT destroy the Democrats, Trump eeked out a Pyrrhic victory by the slightest of margins with only 25% of the entire voting electorate. That by definition is not "Destroying the Democrats".

Sorry, but I think you really mean 25% of the "voting age and citizen population", Trump did get about 46% of the actual votes. If this is what you meant, then what you did say was quite unclear.

MWChapel wrote:
#3. The Democratic primary was not jury rigged. Clinton won because she had 4 million more votes, 25 points ahead of sanders. They nominated a "Democrat". Bernie Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. That is because the "Democrat" party isn't the "Liberal" party as idiots here keep saying is.

#4. The Democrats and the Republicans lost the election. A Populist demagogue who usurped the Republican primary won the election against a Democrat. But he would have lost to Bernie Sanders who is an Independent.

#5. Hence, the Republican and Democratic party are just out of step from what America really is....which is an increasingly Liberal country.
 
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Nile Gardiner wrote:
If Brexit is a success, as seems increasingly likely


He's predicting the success of Brexit before Article 50 has even been triggered. . . Before even the government has worked out a plan as to how to make it a success?

Sounds like hubris.
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Mike Stiles
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MWChapel wrote:
Please. The US is heading more liberal than ever. A Trump "win". Yeah, more like the U.S. is so liberal that 50% of them didn't have a candidate worth the liberal vote. Trump won 25% of the voting electorate, which mean 75% of America didn't want that floating turd in office. Even RSP conservatives admit if Bernie Sanders had won the primary, he probably would have left Trump in the dust. What is that saying? Yes, this is a country heading liberal.

This whole "Trump" mandate is silly. The republicans lost their primary, and the democrats lot the election. The only thing a Trump win signifies is that the 2 parties are out of touch.


Goes to my point, we're not at the end of a liberal era, we're at the dawning of a Populist era.

Sanders' advantage over Trump (beyond having a Y chromosome) was that he could engender the same populist anger that Trump did.

I think it's an impact of the long era of us trashing our own civil servants. People who want good administrators are easy to chase off, but "I'm mad as hell and not gonna take it any more!" fills the ballot box.
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Mac Mcleod
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I view this as a last gasp of angry whites before we move on to a pluralist society as the older, more racist whites die off.

A pluralistic society is NOT necessarily going to be wine and roses.

As minorities gain power after having been suppressed for so long, they may not play nice either. We are long past the point where they could have been treated fairly and been more integral to the u.s. society.

Likewise, even if Minorities do play nice, they will have different values. Some of those values may conflict with values that dominated when whites were dominant.

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Mutton Chops
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The article is the masturbatory fantasy of an ideological obsessive. Brexit does not represent some sort of refreshing, nobly-borne wind of change for political attitudes, it merely demonstrates that politicians such as Nigel Farage and those in the "Leave" campaign are now sufficiently cynical, self-interested and/or monomaniacal enough to lie, bare-facedly and consistently, to an electorate who are scared witless by the phantoms and monsters those same politicians have conjured up; an electorate who are ill-educated and stupid enough to somehow believe that multi-millionaires and public-school trained ex-bankers are "men of the people" and "anti-elite"; an electorate who happily suck up the lies because the lies pander to what they imagine to be true, rather than the complex and difficult-to-solve reality.
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Trey Stone
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MWChapel wrote:
Please. The US is heading more liberal than ever.


Your evidence?

In your shattered bubble, perhaps.

Otherwise, you are just whistling in the graveyard.

Your folks pressed the freakshow this past decade.

Most don't want that foisted upon them.

Do your own thing, sure. But try to draft unwilling dance partners, say, shove men into the ladies room, force Christian bakers to make gay wedding cakes...

...nice going.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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MWChapel wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


How did they exactly "lose" the primary?

The Democratic primary was jury-rigged for an outcome for her and throwing out their one semi reasonable candidate, but it's not fair to say the Republican party "lost" at all. They destroyed the Democrat party.

Trump is very definitely not a conservative though--this populism is sure gonna be interesting all around.


Ferret


#1. Trump is NOT a Republican. The Republican primary nominated someone who was not a Republican, therefore, the "Republicans" lost the primary.



As I said right up front there....it's just quibbling that somehow it's not a "win" if he did, in fact, win......


MWChapel wrote:

#2. The Republicans did NOT destroy the Democrats, Trump eeked out a Pyrrhic victory by the slightest of margins with only 25% of the entire voting electorate. That by definition is not "Destroying the Democrats"


On the contrary, they won more seats and more governorships than anything since--well, since the last cycle. The Democrats have an empty bench, a bankrupt candidate, and a political structure in tatters.

The Republicans didn't as do as much as they'd have liked, but the Democrats got pasted.


MWChapel wrote:

#3. The Democratic primary was not jury rigged. Clinton won because she had 4 million more votes, 25 points ahead of sanders. They nominated a "Democrat". Bernie Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. That is because the "Democrat" party isn't the "Liberal" party as idiots here keep saying is.


It was precisely jury-rigging....Bernie said as much, Debbie Washerman-Schultze (spelling?) said as much, everybody said as much except Hillary.

I like the ad-hom....very slick. The crying must not be all done yet.

MWChapel wrote:

#4. The Democrats
and the Republicans lost the election. A Populist demagogue who usurped the Republican primary won the election against a Democrat. But he would have lost to Bernie Sanders who is an Independent.


Except for the part where the Republicans won by nearly 100 Electoral votes sure....that's "losing"......

MWChapel wrote:

#5. Hence, the Republican and Democratic party are just out of step from what America really is....which is an increasingly Liberal country.


Here you have some bare glimmers of the truth here.

The Democrats lost completely and utterly, in every way, in every fashion. The candidate was ufit mentally, physically, emotionally, temperamentally and was the perfect example of "massive corruption". Nobody liked her, nobody wanted her, they wanted pretty much anybody else to be the nominee--Bernie would have been a much better and stronger candidate.

The Republicans won hands down, though not by espousing conservative values really. For the most part Trump was very clear about what he was--a populist. Some of his positions were very conservative. Others of his positions sounded like Hillary, and a few sounded straight out of Bernie's playbook. His strongest conservative positions have probably been his Supreme Court preliminary picks, though I'm extremely pleased with most of his cabinet picks so far.



Ferret
 
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Mac Mcleod
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tstone wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Please. The US is heading more liberal than ever.


Your evidence?

In your shattered bubble, perhaps.

Otherwise, you are just whistling in the graveyard.

Your folks pressed the freakshow this past decade.

Most don't want that foisted upon them.

Do your own thing, sure. But try to draft unwilling dance partners, say, shove men into the ladies room, force Christian bakers to make gay wedding cakes...

...nice going.


Evidence?

The presidential election popular vote ratio.
Mortality rates resulting in a net loss of over 500000 conservatives per year.
Declining resistance to gay marriage and resulting legalization of gay marriage.

There's more...but I have islands to clear.

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