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Twilight Struggle» Forums » General

Subject: Steam version issues rss

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Capitan Chimista
Spain
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Hi!

I haven't been playing TS for a while, since chantry closed down. Wargameroom is pretty dead and I finally decided to spend the 15 bucks to get the Steam version.

I have played quite a few games in the last two weeks. In general I'm quite happy with the version, but I'd like to share a couple of issues with you guys:

- Discard pile glitch: just a few minutes ago I was playing as US in AR7, T9. I was quite desperate, honestly, about 13 behind and no good board position. I decided to give a shot to SALT when I realized the discard pile was empty. I thought how could this be possible? Of course it was impossible. Even the cards we had just played that turn weren't there. Has anyone experienced this glitch before? Any solution?

- Shuttle diplomacy problem: in this case the glitch was to my advantage. We made it to scoring phase after the end of T10. USSR should have won by 2, but instead we had a draw because shuttle diplomacy was active and USSR lost 2 vp: one from a BG in the ME and another in Asia. This really sucks, since the card explicitly states that it shouldn't affect scoring phase after T10.... and even less deny TWO BG's, one in each continent!!! Furthermore, even though we had a draw the game counted it as a US victory, increasing my ELAN and reducing my opponent's. Have you ever suffered/enjoyed this one?

This is it, basically. Any other glitches or thoughts about the steam version?
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David Bell
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Chimista wrote:
Hi!



- Discard pile glitch: just a few minutes ago I was playing as US in AR7, T9. I was quite desperate, honestly, about 13 behind and no good board position. I decided to give a shot to SALT when I realized the discard pile was empty. I thought how could this be possible? Of course it was impossible. Even the cards we had just played that turn weren't there. Has anyone experienced this glitch before? Any solution?


Yeah, the game has some issues still, hopefully they get resolved sooner rather than later.

For this one, at least, you can usually fix things by returning to the main menu, then going back into the game to force it to reload the game state.
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Alex
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Chimista wrote:

- Shuttle diplomacy problem: in this case the glitch was to my advantage. We made it to scoring phase after the end of T10. USSR should have won by 2, but instead we had a draw because shuttle diplomacy was active and USSR lost 2 vp: one from a BG in the ME and another in Asia. This really sucks, since the card explicitly states that it shouldn't affect scoring phase after T10.... and even less deny TWO BG's, one in each country!!! Furthermore, even though we had a draw the game counted it as a US victory, increasing my ELAN and reducing my opponent's. Have you ever suffered/enjoyed this one?


Although wrong by the official rules, this is not a "glitch". Playdeck has opted to grant US victory on all ties.
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Capitan Chimista
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afafard wrote:
Chimista wrote:

- Shuttle diplomacy problem: in this case the glitch was to my advantage. We made it to scoring phase after the end of T10. USSR should have won by 2, but instead we had a draw because shuttle diplomacy was active and USSR lost 2 vp: one from a BG in the ME and another in Asia. This really sucks, since the card explicitly states that it shouldn't affect scoring phase after T10.... and even less deny TWO BG's, one in each country!!! Furthermore, even though we had a draw the game counted it as a US victory, increasing my ELAN and reducing my opponent's. Have you ever suffered/enjoyed this one?


Although wrong by the official rules, this is not a "glitch". Playdeck has opted to grant US victory on all ties.


I see! Thanks for the information!

I strongly disagree with the decision, though. Draws in TS are rare, and when they happen they are nice. Normally it means both players really deserved to win. Awarding the win to US seems pretty random to me. The OPs bonus or the bid system should be the way to compensate US natural disadvantage, imho.
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Capitan Chimista
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Chipacabra wrote:
Chimista wrote:
Hi!



- Discard pile glitch: just a few minutes ago I was playing as US in AR7, T9. I was quite desperate, honestly, about 13 behind and no good board position. I decided to give a shot to SALT when I realized the discard pile was empty. I thought how could this be possible? Of course it was impossible. Even the cards we had just played that turn weren't there. Has anyone experienced this glitch before? Any solution?


Yeah, the game has some issues still, hopefully they get resolved sooner rather than later.

For this one, at least, you can usually fix things by returning to the main menu, then going back into the game to force it to reload the game state.


Thanks! I should have tried that good old trick
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Ben Kyo
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I hadn't heard about the Shuttle Diplomacy bug, that's quite serious. Are you 100% certain it wasn't a reporting issue and that it did actually affect the final scoring?

The discard bug is annoying, but not really an issue except in really fast timed games.

Other known issues:
Iron Lady allows USSR to avoid the normal influence adjacency rules.
Vietnam Revolts + Red Purge with a 1 OP card in Southeast Asia gives 2 OPs instead of 1.
Wargames in the Late War scenario wins the game for the USSR when it shouldn't (I believe the incorrect win condition for the US was fixed, but I haven't tested it).
Iran-Contra Scandal reports the dice modifiers incorrectly (but calculates the rolls correctly)
Brush War doesn't report superpower adjacency modifier and might possibly fail to take into account superpower adjacency (unconfirmed).
Cuban Missile Crisis apparently causes slowdown in some situations.
No in-game indication of the change to the rules that awards draws to the US.
Someone mentioned losing the game for "holding" a scoring card until AR8 while North Sea Oil was in effect (unconfirmed).

Interface issues:
I believe the game forces you to use all realignment rolls available, which could be a problem in the unlikely event you run out of safe realignment targets.
It is unclear from the interface how to play scoring cards when under Bear Trap/Quagmire and you have no more valid plays and/or are running out of ARs (the interface requires you to play the scoring card "into" the Bear Trap/Quagmire just as if you were playing a 2+ OP card, which is weird).
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John Clemente
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Your item about holding a scoring card until the 8th turn causing a loss ... I had that happen except I had the Eagle landed box from the space race track which grants a free card discard. But when I discarded a scoring card, it said I held it and lost.

Also, about the US winning ties ... I agree it is not in the rules or the spirit of the game. I was up 6 vp's as Soviet, with a terrible board position that I was surely going to lose at final count. I decided to take a tie with War-games. Imagine my surprise when I "lost" to USA because Playdek awards a win to USA for a tie.

So, if you think about it, the text on WGs has been altered, (invalidated) i.e., USSR can give up 6 vps to win but USA only has to give up 5 vps to win. (said another way ... USSR must have 7 vps to win with WG. USA only needs 6 vps)
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Ben Kyo
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Johneboy2 wrote:
Your item about holding a scoring card until the 8th turn causing a loss ... I had that happen except I had the Eagle landed box from the space race track which grants a free card discard. But when I discarded a scoring card, it said I held it and lost.

Not a bug. You lose the game before you get to discard it.
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John Clemente
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I'm not clear on that. The "turn" is not over, right? If I dispose a scoring card during the "turn", haven't I "not held" a scoring card?
 
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David Bell
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Johneboy2 wrote:
I'm not clear on that. The "turn" is not over, right? If I dispose a scoring card during the "turn", haven't I "not held" a scoring card?


You check to see if you lose for holding a card before you get a chance to discard it. That's just how the end-of-turn order of events goes.
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Ben Kyo
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Johneboy2 wrote:
I'm not clear on that. The "turn" is not over, right? If I dispose a scoring card during the "turn", haven't I "not held" a scoring card?

A. Improve DEFCON Status
B. Deal Cards
C. Headline Phase
D. Action Rounds
E. Check Military Operations Status
F. Reveal Held Card (meaning the red strip only, of course, and errata states this even comes before Check Military Operations)
G. Flip ‘The China Card’
H. Advance Turn Marker
I. Final Scoring (after Turn 10 only)

"Upon reaching space 6 (Eagle/Bear has Landed), the player may discard their Held Card at the end of the turn"

Since revealing the held card comes before the end of the turn, if you are holding a scoring card you will lose before you get to discard it.

This question has been debated before if you Google for it. I don't think there is any doubt about the correct answer.
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John Clemente
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Ok, thanks for clearing it up. Seems counter-intuitive, but it does say it, so I have to agree.

Seems like the instructions should be modified to "Upon reaching space 6 (Eagle/Bear has Landed), the player may discard their non-scoring Held Card at the end of the turn"
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Michael Valentine

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Benkyo wrote:
Other known issues:
Cuban Missile Crisis apparently causes slowdown in some situations.


CMC is a significant bug/rules change on steam. You can end the crisis *only* at the beginning of your ar. Not at the end of your ar after playing ops or event, and not at anytime during your opponent's turn. Thus, if you have 1 op in Cuba at the beginning of your turn, you can't add ops and then end the crisis. You'll have to wait until your next ar assuming you haven't been realigned out in the meanwhile. Also, even if you have 3 influence in Cuba at the beginning of your opponent's turn and he plays Lone Gunman, you are not given the opportunity of ending the crisis before playing the 1 op (and thus can't coup a bg to get a defcon win). At least this was the case the last time I tried removing influence at the end of an ar or during an opponent's ar.
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Dave K
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On PC this game works but is missing text in a large number of places, most notably the score track (I can never know what the score is) and the bottom history tabs (which means I can't see what the plays were if they happened off screen).

So I tried the iOS version, and it's WORSE! The game started off very slow, crashed constantly, but now it crashes every time I try to load/create a game, at 0% loading, making it completely useless.

What a disaster, whoever programmed this needs to either step up and fix the bugs or get help in doing so. Considering you can't usually get refunds for Apple apps, and the high price of this app, I'm pretty bummed by the situation. At least on Steam I could get a refund.
 
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Ben Kyo
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naturally wrote:
On PC this game works but is missing text in a large number of places, most notably the score track (I can never know what the score is) and the bottom history tabs (which means I can't see what the plays were if they happened off screen).

I don't understand this. The score is top centre, and always highly visible. The history tabs are present and correct, and allow the entire game to be reviewed at any point.
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A. I. H
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Hey Ben,

could you elaborate on the Wargames glitch thing? Why shouldn't the USSR win with it if they were higher on points than 6 and play it?
 
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Ben Kyo
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eighty6er wrote:
Hey Ben,

could you elaborate on the Wargames glitch thing? Why shouldn't the USSR win with it if they were higher on points than 6 and play it?

Just to recap for anyone that doesn't know, these are the changes to standard win conditions in the Late War Scenario:
In final scoring, the US can only win by reaching 20 VP. The USSR can win with any value of VPs from 19 VP to -20 VP.
If the US plays Wargames for the event, and chooses to award the USSR -6 VP, the US loses (there is no way to play Wargames for the event and end up with 20 VP).
If the USSR plays Wargames for the event, and chooses to award the US +6 VP, the USSR can win if the VPs end up at -1 VP or better, draw if 0, and lose if +1 VP or worse (just like in a regular game).

With the caveat that I haven't played the Late War Scenario with the latest patch of the game, I believe that currently there is a bug in that the USSR can win by any play of Wargames as long as it doesn't take the VPs to +20 (i.e., the score could be at +13 and the USSR can still win by playing Wargames!). Previously there was also a bug in that the US could win by playing Wargames. I believe this bug has been eliminated, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Conor Hickey
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naturally wrote:
On PC this game works but is missing text in a large number of places, most notably the score track (I can never know what the score is) and the bottom history tabs (which means I can't see what the plays were if they happened off screen).


You can click on the bar to expand an entry to see exactly what happened, and click and hold to move the bar left or right to view other rounds.
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Jim McNaughton
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naturally wrote:
On PC this game works but is missing text in a large number of places, most notably the score track (I can never know what the score is) and the bottom history tabs (which means I can't see what the plays were if they happened off screen).


No missing text on my PC version.
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Capitan Chimista
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Benkyo wrote:
I hadn't heard about the Shuttle Diplomacy bug, that's quite serious. Are you 100% certain it wasn't a reporting issue and that it did actually affect the final scoring?

The discard bug is annoying, but not really an issue except in really fast timed games.

Other known issues:
Iron Lady allows USSR to avoid the normal influence adjacency rules.
Vietnam Revolts + Red Purge with a 1 OP card in Southeast Asia gives 2 OPs instead of 1.
Wargames in the Late War scenario wins the game for the USSR when it shouldn't (I believe the incorrect win condition for the US was fixed, but I haven't tested it).
Iran-Contra Scandal reports the dice modifiers incorrectly (but calculates the rolls correctly)
Brush War doesn't report superpower adjacency modifier and might possibly fail to take into account superpower adjacency (unconfirmed).
Cuban Missile Crisis apparently causes slowdown in some situations.
No in-game indication of the change to the rules that awards draws to the US.
Someone mentioned losing the game for "holding" a scoring card until AR8 while North Sea Oil was in effect (unconfirmed).

Interface issues:
I believe the game forces you to use all realignment rolls available, which could be a problem in the unlikely event you run out of safe realignment targets.
It is unclear from the interface how to play scoring cards when under Bear Trap/Quagmire and you have no more valid plays and/or are running out of ARs (the interface requires you to play the scoring card "into" the Bear Trap/Quagmire just as if you were playing a 2+ OP card, which is weird).


Ok! I have double checked (actually triple-checked ) and it is a reporting issue, as you said. The final scoring was actually correct, so no real issue with the card, my mistake!

Regarding the re-alignment issue: I have also suffered it and had to roll a bad realignment I didn't want to risk.

Thanks for the answers and glad the post has started an interesting conversation!
 
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Ben Kyo
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Chimista wrote:
Yes, I can confirm the problem with Shuttle Diplomacy. I have just double checked, since the game is still in my game log. USSR lost two BG's in the final scoring (one in Asia, one in the ME). I could even provide screenshots, If someone is interested.

Please do share the screenshot, and report the game number and issue to Playdek. They haven't patched anything for ages, but I'm hoping they will get round to it once a mobile-friendly version is done.
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Capitan Chimista
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Benkyo wrote:
Chimista wrote:
Yes, I can confirm the problem with Shuttle Diplomacy. I have just double checked, since the game is still in my game log. USSR lost two BG's in the final scoring (one in Asia, one in the ME). I could even provide screenshots, If someone is interested.

Please do share the screenshot, and report the game number and issue to Playdek. They haven't patched anything for ages, but I'm hoping they will get round to it once a mobile-friendly version is done.


After a triple-check I noticed you were right: reporting issue, I have just actually edited my previous reply, to correct it.
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Dave K
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Benkyo wrote:
naturally wrote:
On PC this game works but is missing text in a large number of places, most notably the score track (I can never know what the score is) and the bottom history tabs (which means I can't see what the plays were if they happened off screen).

I don't understand this. The score is top centre, and always highly visible. The history tabs are present and correct, and allow the entire game to be reviewed at any point.


Except that those things don't appear. Here is a screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/QEJNGcv.png

Makes it more than a little confusing to play.
 
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[maˈtiːas]
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Dave, have you tried it with another user-account or on another PC? It might just be a missing font (or a corrupted file).
Have you posted a bug-report at http://playdek.invisionzone.com/index.php?/forum/84-twilight... ?
 
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Dave K
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I posted a bug in their Steam Bugs forums, I'm unable to try the advice suggested. I will look into your forum link, I wasn't aware these existed, since Playdek's website is very barren!
 
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