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Orléans» Forums » Strategy

Subject: A personal impression (about luck and control) rss

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Bart De Vlieger
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Merelbeke
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Hi,

I've played Orléans two times now and still don't like this game. The bag action mechanisme makes it a very bad game for me. Which is a pity. Because other ideas are nice (invest in cogs via craftsmen, increase your drawlimit of character tiles via knights, receive buildings via traders, get some moneypoints via boatsmen, increase your star multiplier/receive moneypoints via scholars etc.)

It could score an 8/10. But because of its "bad" bag action mechanisme and other shortcomings, it only receives a 4 out of 10 for me.

What's wrong with this game for me:

1. The goods are worth money (= points). Since there is nothing done with theses goods during gameplay (you only collect them). In stead of placing a wool tile, you could also place 4 money on the gameboard. Which safes you some 'stupid' substitution calculation afterwards.

There is one difference. Points in money are safe. Points in goods are not. Which brings me to the first 'luck' factor in this game. If you would go for a strategy (and engine) of collecting many goods. But the 3 "Good Tax" events appears in last rounds of the game, you will lose many points.

Unless you would protect your self against these events. However there is only one building available for that. Obtaining this building tile, for which you need a Trader action and also a Monk tile to activate that building (for which you need a Scholar tile, etc.) slows you down in the game. Which is not good. Because Orleans is in it's core a fast efficiency point salad game. So all these 'potentially' lost actions, for an event, which could not appear late in the game (you don't know that) is strategically a bad thing.

2. Idem dito with the event: "Plague". You could lose up to 3 character tiles if you are unlucky. Of course your 4 basic character tiles are always protected. But you can't protect anyone else. Why is this not made possible ? As a kind of investment ? You could leave your unprotected character tiles on your board, but then you slow down you engine again and lose some 'point' actions. A player who goes for his luck and has that luck (a protected character tile was drawn from his bag) gains more advantages not based on his good play or skills, but on his 'good luck'. I don't like that.

Losing an important character tile with the plague could break (or slow down) a nicely build engine game of a player. Why punish one player and not the other ? This is not logical nor strategic. It's merely based on luck.

3. I find the game not very well balanced. Some action spaces are only important and used in the beginning. Some action spaces are very poor (the scriptorium for instance). Building many trading stations, receiving goods and money for it, is what is important. Everything else is secondary.

4. However the most terrible and annoying element in Orleans is the bag for me. You could go for a 'Knight' strategy. In which you increase the drawing of your character tiles to its maximum (8 pieces). Receive the citizen tile (if you were start player or solo follows this strategy). From then on you can begin placing cogs, ship some character tiles to the Beneficial Deeds for receiving money (points) and keeping your bag size limited. Only when you're bag doesn't contain more then 8 character tiles, you can eliminate this "luck" and follow some static strategic engine. You could place a cog on the Ship, Guildhall, Wagon and Village action. Then you can EVERY ROUND ! move around (collect potentially some goods), build a trading station, send one character tile to a beneficial deeds (to keep the bag size low), receive a new boatman (get money points) or scholar (receive money and/or increase your start level), which you try to send to the beneficial deeds the next round (to keep your bag size low and controlled - it doesn't exceed it's 8 character tile limit). And this is where the game frustrates me. It's not really a solid and nice deck building game, with al these stupid restrictions. You can't enlarge your engine, with more character tile than 8, if so, you lose static planning and control. Then you have to play you game with what you receive that round. And I don't like that. That's certainly not my kind of game! A good developped engine game doesn't have these limits. Orleans is a stupid point salad game, with luck and no soul. Meh.
 
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Aernout Casier
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
Thanks for your opinion. We will go on loving the game, regardless
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Chris Burgess
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
Well i have to say i disagree with most of what is said here, but then again i've played a whole lot more than two times.

The game gives you many, many ways to manage the luck and your bag.
If you know exactly the contents of your bag, you can pre-prep spaces by leaving workers on the board or buy tiles which increase your draw choices or market size.

Events impact everyone equally, and you have advance warning, so the impact is evenly distributed across the players and pushing your luck produces a lot of fun around the table "Yeah! i pulled a starter" or "Ahhh C**p i lost a monk!".

It only gets better with the expansions- Trade and Intrigue mixes up the beneficial deeds board and events, which kill old strategies and introduce new ones.

But i expect what i am saying is preaching to the choir.
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Bart De Vlieger
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
AernoutMJC wrote:
Thanks for your opinion. We will go on loving the game, regardless


Of course

Every boardgame is a matter of "personal taste".
Have fun in enjoying it.

TheMonkeyBear wrote:
Well i have to say i disagree with most of what is said here, but then again i've played a whole lot more than two times.

The game gives you many, many ways to manage the luck and your bag.
If you know exactly the contents of your bag, you can pre-prep spaces by leaving workers on the board or buy tiles which increase your draw choices or market size.

Events impact everyone equally, and you have advance warning, so the impact is evenly distributed across the players and pushing your luck produces a lot of fun around the table "Yeah! i pulled a starter" or "Ahhh C**p i lost a monk!".

It only gets better with the expansions- Trade and Intrigue mixes up the beneficial deeds board and events, which kill old strategies and introduce new ones.

But i expect what i am saying is preaching to the choir.


1. You wrote "Events impact everyone equally"

This is not true. Since someone can lose a worker with the plague and another player not. Which makes this impact not 'equally'. If you have bad luck, you lose an 'invested' character tile. if not, you may keep it. Dito with the Taxes, which undermines a 'good strategy'. Collecting money is better. No tax on that. I don't understand why money is not taxed in this game ? It would make the game a bit more balanced.

2. You wrote: "You can buy tiles which increase your draw choices or market size."

This is true and also mentioned in my opinion above.

3. You wrote: "If you know exactly the contents of your bag, you can pre-prep spaces by leaving workers on the board".

This is also true. However, limitations in the engine building remain. I like an "engine" that can adapt to changing circumstances. If you leave certain character tiles 'pre-prep' on the board, you can not rearrange thoses spaces. They are fixend and locked. Another problem with this 'pre-prep' strategy, is that you can not get your whole engine back running again in one (and every) round. It needs multiple fetch rounds from the bag. Also you need to be very careful. If I would unfortunate play some 'pre-prep' actions on my board, too many character tiles could return back in my bag, whereby I would lose the "draw control" of my bag again.

A much better way of playing this game would be, to let all the players CHOOSE from the elements in their bag. You don't draw 7 character tiles random from a bag, you choose 7 character tiles of your choice from your bag pool. Just get rid off the bag and its random 'engine' limitations. It would make the game richer and more controlled. With more possiblities to obtain all kind of character tiles (much more than the draw limit of 8) and play those character tiles, in any order you want, during the game. That's an engine game I would like! (and not hate for its anoying restrictions and randomness)
 
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Peter Mulholland
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
Could not disagree more...

HansSolo wrote:

1. The goods are worth money (= points). Since there is nothing done with theses goods during gameplay (you only collect them). In stead of placing a wool tile, you could also place 4 money on the gameboard. Which safes you some 'stupid' substitution calculation afterwards.

There is one difference. Points in money are safe. Points in goods are not. Which brings me to the first 'luck' factor in this game. If you would go for a strategy (and engine) of collecting many goods. But the 3 "Good Tax" events appears in last rounds of the game, you will lose many points.

Unless you would protect your self against these events. However there is only one building available for that. Obtaining this building tile, for which you need a Trader action and also a Monk tile to activate that building (for which you need a Scholar tile, etc.) slows you down in the game. Which is not good. Because Orleans is in it's core a fast efficiency point salad game. So all these 'potentially' lost actions, for an event, which could not appear late in the game (you don't know that) is strategically a bad thing.


Depending on which buildings you create goods can be used for a large number of things. They are also used to mitigate a number of events, where paying money is a more expensive (therefore more points) option.

Orleans is not a point salad game. The points come from 3 different places; money, goods and your development level.

HansSolo wrote:

2. Idem dito with the event: "Plague". You could lose up to 3 character tiles if you are unlucky. Of course your 4 basic character tiles are always protected. But you can't protect anyone else. Why is this not made possible ? As a kind of investment ? You could leave your unprotected character tiles on your board, but then you slow down you engine again and lose some 'point' actions. A player who goes for his luck and has that luck (a protected character tile was drawn from his bag) gains more advantages not based on his good play or skills, but on his 'good luck'. I don't like that.

Losing an important character tile with the plague could break (or slow down) a nicely build engine game of a player. Why punish one player and not the other ? This is not logical nor strategic. It's merely based on luck.


Yes it's luck what you draw from the bag, but you should plan around this. Depending on when the plague comes out, it may actually be useful to lose workers (if I'm at the top of the Boatman track and have loads of blue guys in my bag it might be useful to thin them out. It's very easy to manipulate your bag to make sure you just have your starting workers, or workers you don't mind losing by leaving valuable ones on your board. It's all about planning.

HansSolo wrote:

3. I find the game not very well balanced. Some action spaces are only important and used in the beginning. Some action spaces are very poor (the scriptorium for instance). Building many trading stations, receiving goods and money for it, is what is important. Everything else is secondary.


All actions spaces are valuable, it just depends on your strategy. If you want to get to the top of the development track you may have to use the scriptorium, or if you haven't managed your bag well and have those specific workers you can use them. There are various strategies to winning this game. I've seen someone ignore trading stations and the development track and just focus on goods (moving to collect them, and building buildings like the tailor shop or hayrick to generate them) and they won by a mile.


HansSolo wrote:

4. However the most terrible and annoying element in Orleans is the bag for me. You could go for a 'Knight' strategy. In which you increase the drawing of your character tiles to its maximum (8 pieces). Receive the citizen tile (if you were start player or solo follows this strategy). From then on you can begin placing cogs, ship some character tiles to the Beneficial Deeds for receiving money (points) and keeping your bag size limited. Only when you're bag doesn't contain more then 8 character tiles, you can eliminate this "luck" and follow some static strategy engine. You could place a cog on the Ship, Guildhall, Wagon and Village action. Then you can every round move arrount (collect goods) and build a Trading Station with only 4 character tiles. You can send one character tile to a beneficial deeds, and make with you other 2 tiles a new one (blue, grey). Which you try to send to the beneficial deeds the next round, so your bag engine remains controlled (doesn't exceed it's 8 character tile limit). And this is where the game frustrates me. It's not really a solid and nice deck building game, with al these stupid restrictions.


It sounds like you've decided there is only one strategy for this game, and when you can't do it/it doesn't work it means the game is broken... The game is all about managing your bag, using the beneficial deeds boards to clean up your bag, leaving workers on spaces for a round to manage your bag. A good player can work their strategy around whatever their draw is...



Frankly the way you write this makes it sound like you're not very good at this game, and as a result are throwing your toys out of the pram. Particularly the repeated use of the word stupid...

But each to their own, shame you can't enjoy this.
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Peter Mulholland
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
Just realised you said you've only played this twice.

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Peter Hazlewood
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
I've only played this 3 times so far so can't comment on the different strategies etc with any knowledge, but one of things that you find 'stupid' seems to be the whole pool building mechanism. You must've known what the whole concept of this game was. If you find deck or pool builders too much down to luck then maybe this isn't for you. I don't know how highly I rate Orleans yet, I'll need a few more plays to decide just how much I like this, but I don't think it's a stupid game. It just may not be to your liking.
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Bart De Vlieger
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
sneakypete21 wrote:
I've only played this 3 times so far so can't comment on the different strategies etc with any knowledge, but one of things that you find 'stupid' seems to be the whole pool building mechanism. You must've known what the whole concept of this game was. If you find deck or pool builders too much down to luck then maybe this isn't for you. I don't know how highly I rate Orleans yet, I'll need a few more plays to decide just how much I like this, but I don't think it's a stupid game. It just may not be to your liking.


You are completely right. I find this game "stupid". The word 'stupid' is an emotion. My emotion. The game Orléans is therefore not stupid. I can understand many people love this game. That's their emotion. For them Orleans is not stupid. It's just stupid for me.
 
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Bart De Vlieger
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
PeterM2158 wrote:
Depending on which buildings you create goods can be used for a large number of things.

For which things can goods be used in the basic version of Orléans, other than avoiding/receiving big taxes with an upcoming event ? I did not play any expansions. Just the basic version (with a corrected Bathhouse).

PeterM2158 wrote:
Orleans is not a point salad game. The points come from 3 different places; money, goods and your development level.

goods are money (they are converted into money at the end of the game) and money is points. The development level is just a point salad multiplier for me.

PeterM2158 wrote:
Yes it's luck what you draw from the bag, but you should plan around this. Depending on when the plague comes out, it may actually be useful to lose workers (if I'm at the top of the Boatman track and have loads of blue guys in my bag it might be useful to thin them out. It's very easy to manipulate your bag to make sure you just have your starting workers, or workers you don't mind losing by leaving valuable ones on your board. It's all about planning.


Turn this reasoning around It's not all about planning. It's about dealing with uncertainties that suddenly occur. The Plague event could appear at a moment in your game, where you can't afford to lose an unprotected character tile. You could leave that unprotected character tile on your playerboard, but then your action (and engine building) is delayed. Slowed down. Or you can push your luck. And go for that advantage.

Losing a character tile by the plague (which is luck) is not a good thing in your game. Since you don't receive any money nor advancement on the development track for it. When placing (and discarding) a character tile on the 'beneficial deeds' board you do!

PeterM2158 wrote:
All actions spaces are valuable, it just depends on your strategy. If you want to get to the top of the development track you may have to use the scriptorium, or if you haven't managed your bag well and have those specific workers you can use them. There are various strategies to winning this game. I've seen someone ignore trading stations and the development track and just focus on goods (moving to collect them, and building buildings like the tailor shop or hayrick to generate them) and they won by a mile.


I've only played this game twice. I didn't test the efficiency strategy I mentioned here yet. I do not enjoy this game. There are other games I would like to play again and more. We will see.

With a "goods strategy" you can lose many points, if the Tax event tiles come very late in the game. Which makes the effect of a certain strategy difficult to compare, since the conditions of a boardgame are often never the same.

Also, a 'winning' strategy which is played inefficiently does not work! Victory is always some kind of luck. Luck in what other players take or do not take. Luck in the way, your 'efficiency' works. Or you receive penalties for it.

PeterM2158 wrote:
A good player can work their strategy around whatever their draw is


I agree. But in a very good game, a good player does not need to play around those coincidences. Since they do not occur! There is also a difference between a "strategical" and/or a "tactical" boardgame.

In a strategical boardgame you (as a player) have full control over your strategy. No personal luck with a dice, drawing from a bag, pulling of cards, etc. You are in control. Events will also not destroy some planning in progress. And certainly not destroy unequally over the different players (depending on the luck of a draw).

In a tactical game, you have to adjust more. Calculate your chances. Good players can try to play around this luck. You do your best with what you can and have. However, I don't like these kind of games. Which is a 'feeling'. Nothing more than that.

PeterM2158 wrote:
Frankly the way you write this makes it sound like you're not very good at this game, and as a result are throwing your toys out of the pram. Particularly the repeated use of the word stupid... But each to their own, shame you can't enjoy this.


I've tried it a second time. But still doens't enjoy this game. Which is a shame. I know. I like Lorenzo Il Magnifico, Railroad Revolution, Nippon, Signorie, etc. However I also dislike Great Western Trail and Mombasa. That stupid feeling again. These games are no 'puzzle' fun for me.

I've lost many games, which I found fantastic as a game. Also I've won many games, which I hate. Played once or twice and never again.

The "joy" for me is in a 'feeling':
- Do I have full control (as many as possible) ?
- Is the game well balanced ? (everyone suffers a penalty or no one does, or can everyone develop a plan to protect themselves against such things ?)
- Can I build things easily ? Create a strong (not limited) engine ?

This 'feeling' is not present in Orléans for me.
Too bad...

I would like Orleans much more, if the character tiles would not be drawn from a bag, but choosen each round by the player. You controle the character tiles you gather (in your pool) and you controle which character tiles you want to play each Round (and this over and over again).

Maybe an idea for an expansion
Just get rid off that 'stupid' bag
 
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Peter Mulholland
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
HansSolo wrote:

Which has nothing to do, with winning or losing a game. I've lost many games, which i found fantastic as a game. Also I've won many games, which I hate. Played once or twice and never again.

The "joy" for me is in the 'feeling' (does this game feels good).
- Do I have full control (as many as possible) ?
- Is the game well balanced ? (everyone suffers a penalty or no one does, can everyone develop a plan to protect themselves against these things ?)
- Can I build things easily ? Create a strong (not limited) engine ?

I would like Orleans much more, if the character tiles would not be drawn from a bag, but choosen by each player. You controle the character tiles you gather. And you controle which character tiles you want to play each Round, over and over again.

Maybe an idea for an expansion
Just get rid off that bag


Trust me I know all about losing games. My win percentage for all games ever played is only about 30%, and I very rarely win at Orleans - but I enjoy playing nonetheless.

I know you haven't played the expansions, I haven't been talking about those.

Having players choose their workers is an absolutely ridiculous idea. Sure, for a totally different game I'm sure it'd be fine. But not for Orleans. The point of Orleans is the bag building/management mechanism. Thats the game. It would be like taking the deck building out of Dominion and just letting people choose which cards they want to play.

If they brought out that expansion you would be the only person to buy it, as it wouldn't be expanding the game, it would be changing it to a different game.

You don't like this game after 2 plays. Thats fine, I'm not trying to convince you to like it as you've obviously made up your mind - and thats fine, we all like different games. I'm sure you like plenty of games I think are "stupid". What I disagree with are you reasons. You don't like the bag building and drawing from a bag, but that is the whole point of the game. If you don't like that I would suggest you don't try to adapt it, just don't play it.
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Bart De Vlieger
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
Without the bag it would be indead a whole different version of Orléans. Maybe a better version (or worse). I don't know. It's just an idea to try... If I would play it a next time...
 
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Re: Time to invest or just a fast (and bad) point salad game
HansSolo wrote:
Without the bag it would be indead a whole different version of Orléans. Maybe a better version (or worse). I don't know. It's just an idea to try... If I would play it a next time...


It wouldn't be a better version, it would be an entirely different game. But you go ahead and enjoy it
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Matt D
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HansSolo wrote:

You are completely right. I find this game "stupid". The word 'stupid' is an emotion. My emotion. The game Orléans is therefore not stupid. I can understand many people love this game. That's their emotion. For them Orleans is not stupid. It's just stupid for me.


Maybe it's a language issue, but "stupid" is not an emotion; "stupid" is either an adjective to describe something or someone "lacking intelligence or common sense" or "dazed and unable to think clearly". Or, in a lesser perjorative sense, a noun used to refer to a person who could be described as such (like a "coward" or a "genius").

I think the word you are looking for is possibly:

"daunting" - seeming difficult to deal with in anticipation; intimidating.
"frustrating" - causing feelings of anger and annoyance

Or, a better phrasing is:

"I find this game makes me FEEL as if I am stupid."

The game itself has no intelligence. Likewise, stupid is not an emotion; you can, however, perceive yourself to be "lacking intelligence". That's a perception, and to an extent an emotion, but that is you, not the game.

So you may see why many people bristled at your comments and your repeated use of that term, because it not appropriate for you are claiming to say it means.
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Original post edited 10 times completely changing it from what it was, including a completely different title. All replies edited at least twice.

This is why you use the quote the button folks....
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Peter Hazlewood
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PeterM2158 wrote:
Original post edited 10 times completely changing it from what it was, including a completely different title. All replies edited at least twice.

This is why you use the quote the button folks....


Indeed. At least this suggests you've made some good points
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Bart De Vlieger
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PeterM2158 wrote:
Original post edited 10 times completely changing it from what it was, including a completely different title. All replies edited at least twice. This is why you use the quote the button folks....


I've changed nothing essential in content. Only in form. I've edited and corrected my English language here and there. Corrected some grammar, spelling mistakes, syntax, etc. I've also changed the title, so it better fits the toughts I've described in my opening post.

All those changes were in form only, not in content.

So, please don't make a fuss about nothing. You are creating a perception here, that does not exist.

sneakypete21 wrote:
Indeed. At least this suggests you've made some good points


It suggests nothing. Only that you are beeing possibly framed by a false perception PeterM2158 created.
 
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Bart De Vlieger
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hestiansun wrote:

Maybe it's a language issue, but "stupid" is not an emotion; "stupid" is either an adjective to describe something or someone "lacking intelligence or common sense" or "dazed and unable to think clearly". Or, in a lesser perjorative sense, a noun used to refer to a person who could be described as such (like a "coward" or a "genius").

I think the word you are looking for is possibly:
"daunting" - seeming difficult to deal with in anticipation; intimidating.
"frustrating" - causing feelings of anger and annoyance

Or, a better phrasing is:
"I find this game makes me FEEL as if I am stupid."

The game itself has no intelligence. Likewise, stupid is not an emotion; you can, however, perceive yourself to be "lacking intelligence". That's a perception, and to an extent an emotion, but that is you, not the game.

So you may see why many people bristled at your comments and your repeated use of that term, because it not appropriate for you are claiming to say it means.


Goodmorning hestiansun.

What a comment The last section felt as some good stand-up comedy. My compliments

You wrote: "I find this game makes me FEEL as if I am stupid."

I dont' feel (this game makes me) stupid

I find the game Orléans stupid because it "lacks intelligence" in its design for me. I miss the joy. The absolute control. Other people may find Orléans a very good and intelligent game. I do not.

You wrote: "Maybe it's a language issue, but "stupid" is not an emotion" and also "you can, however, perceive yourself to be lacking intelligence. That's a perception, and to an extent an emotion"

Is stupid an emotion or not ? First you wrote No, then you wrote Yes.
Isn't this a bit... stupid ?

When I say, I find something or someone "stupid". That's an emotion for me. Or (better phrased) there are emotions hidden (contained) in that very simple word 'stupid'. All these hidden emotions, which I summary and merge into one simple 'strong' word: stupid!

Why is Orléans stupid for me ? I hate the mechanism with the bag. I hate the luck. You can try to play around that luck. That's true. But the luck is not only there. It's also present in events that occur. Events that can damage your long term strategy. Is such 'a priori' strategy even possible in the game. Or do you have to adjust yourself to the game. In stead of adjusting the game to you. I don't know. What I do know, is that I don't like this game. But that judgment is personal. Based on two plays only. I don't know if I will find my joy in this game. I would like to eliminate the "bag". Which would make it a completly different game. Maybe more my 'cup of tea'.

you wrote: "The game itself has no intelligence."

This is not true. If a game would have no intelligence. Than why test all those games ? With multiple plays, before it is released by its publisher and designer.

Games are tested, because they can contain "errors" in their design. Faults. If there are many faults in the design of a boardgame, that boardgame becomes more "stupid" and less "intelligent". So a boardgame, does have 'some' intelligence on it's own. You can look at that intelligence. That's something I do and like about boardgames. Analyzing the "intelligence" in its design. Is it well balanced ? Do you have much control ? Control is also an "expression" of intelligence for me. Of MERIT. Luck is not. Luck is just (there is that word again ) "stupid" for me.

You mentioned the word "frustrating". This is true. Games that lack control, can frustrate me. For instance when I roll a dice and I get nothing. Another player rolls that same dice and gets a blue cube. Such mechanisms frustrate me. I find them not fair. Dito with games where pieces can be broken down (destroyed). And lots of other things I don't like in a boardgame. I can try to deal with those things. Laugh with it. But still I don't like it. I find all those things, in one simple word "STUPID".

But it's always (and only) stupid for me! Because I don't like it. Therefor stupid is an emotion for me. Only humans have emotions. Boardgames don't. Stupid is an emotion, because it says something about my 'likings'. Do I like this game or not ? When I don't like a game I simple says: I find that boardgame (its mechanisms, design, etc) stupid.

Hopefully this clarify a bit 'my' meaning and use of 'the' word stupid.

Regards.
 
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Olli Juhala
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HansSolo wrote:
PeterM2158 wrote:
Original post edited 10 times completely changing it from what it was, including a completely different title. All replies edited at least twice. This is why you use the quote the button folks....


I've changed nothing essential in 'content'. Only in 'form'. I've edited and corrected my English language here and there. Corrected some grammar, spelling mistakes, syntax, etc. I've also changed the title, so it better fits the toughts I've described in my opening post.

All those changes were in 'form' only, not in 'content'.

So, please don't make a fuss about nothing. You are creating a perception here, that does not exist.

sneakypete21 wrote:
Indeed. At least this suggests you've made some good points


It suggests nothing. Only that you are beeing possibly 'framed' by a false 'perception' PeterM2158 created.


You keep using those ' marks. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
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Bart De Vlieger
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Shader10 wrote:
You keep using those ' marks. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Can you clarify this ? I don't understand what you mean with this.
I don't know what you 'think' Luckily for you. Too bad for me
 
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Olli Juhala
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HansSolo wrote:
Shader10 wrote:
You keep using those ' marks. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Can you clarify this ? I don't understand what you mean with this.
I don't know what you 'think' Luckily for you. Too bad for me


Your use of them is basically obscuring the meaning of the words you use, leading to assume their meaning might be the exact opposite of your intent.
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Bart De Vlieger
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Shader10 wrote:
HansSolo wrote:
Shader10 wrote:
You keep using those ' marks. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Can you clarify this ? I don't understand what you mean with this.
I don't know what you 'think' Luckily for you. Too bad for me


Your use of them is basically obscuring the meaning of the words you use, leading to assume their meaning might be the exact opposite of your intent.


Thanks for the clarification. I use those quotes (') often to accentuate certain words in my sentence. Dito with my use of uppercase, parenthesis, etc. It's not intended as opposite meaning or whatever. I can edit my text and leave those quotes out, if you want.

Edit: I've eliminated my use of quotes in that text. Especially for you. Have a nice day. Regards.
 
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Olli Juhala
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HansSolo wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I use those quotes (') often to accentuate certain words in my sentence. Dito with my use of uppercase, parenthesis, etc. It's not intended as opposite meaning or whatever. I can edit my text and leave those quotes out, if you want.

Edit: I've eliminated my use of quotes in that text. Especially for you. Have a nice day. Regards.


No problem.
 
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Russell Neave-Houghting
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Why play a game containing luck when you admit you don't like games containing luck and then complain that it contains luck?

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Aeggil wrote:
Why play a game containing luck when you admit you don't like games containing luck and then complain that it contains luck?

I'm not a clairvoyant, who can see in the future

I didn't know Orleans had this kind of luck (irritating 'stupid' game play).
You get to know things, by trying them out.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
 
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Peter Mulholland
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I really like squid.
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I really like squid.
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HansSolo wrote:

The game Orléans is therefore not stupid.


HansSolo wrote:
I find the game Orléans stupid because it "lacks intelligence" in its design for me.


Make your mind up...
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