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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: Some Numbers to help answer "How much should I pledge?" rss

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Chris Rindfleisch
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For my own sake I have been doing some number crunching to figure out the pledge amount I will need to get everything I want out of the kickstarter, and just thought I would share these for people who might be interested.

NOTE: These values will change as more stretch goals and add-ons are revealed.

These numbers are current as of 11/22/2016 and include up through the Helios Stretch Goal.

Main Game Components [Now in Bundles]
A) Core Game + SGs Only| $99

B) Core + SGs + Gamer Bundle(All game expansions and Add-ons)| $398

C) Core + SGs + Collectors Bundle (1 of EVERYTHING)|$498

NOTE that the Gamer Bundle DOES NOT INCLUDE Terrain, extra dice, stat clips, or KETOS


Extra Bits (Not included in Gamer Bundle)
A) Dice | $10 per set

B) Terrain Set| $22

C) Ketos Model| $10

D) Classic Stat Clips (Enough to Cover SGs)| $15
- 3 sets of brown for 25 SG dashboards

E) Colored Stat Clips (Core and SG Only)|$25
- 1 Set of Yellow for 11 Gods + Titans
- 2 Sets of Green for 12 Monsters
- 2 Sets of Grey for 17 Heroes

F) Colored Stat Clips (Core + SG + All Add Ons)|$45
- 2 Sets of Yellow for 14 Gods + Titans
- 3 Sets of Green for 27 Monsters
- 4 Sets of Grey for 37 Heroes

G) Art Book| $25

H) RPG| $49

Card Count (For those who like to sleeve)
A) Core + SGs| 385
B) Core + SGs and All Add-Ons| 603


Hopefully this will be useful to someone. If nothing else, it is helpful for me


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Abe
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Thanks for this. It will make it easier to compare when they release the bundle deals tomorrow.
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Shane
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Thanks for this. I'm one of those odd people who would rather have nothing than an incomplete set. And all these add-ons have officially priced me out.
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Benoit VOGT
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Many people are asking for bundles. We are thinking about it and we should communicate soon about this.
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Vasilis
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ShaneXtopher wrote:
Thanks for this. I'm one of those odd people who would rather have nothing than an incomplete set. And all these add-ons have officially priced me out.


I really don't think that this behavior is odd. I'm one of those people of course.
I want to back this game but the price for someone who wants to buy everything is already on 'I don't want to spend that much money on a single game' levels of expensive.
And even if I choose to leave some expansions for a possible retail purchase after I've played and established that I like the game to warrant investing in it, I still miss out because almost all of them, if not all, have Kickstarter exclusive items in them.

So we are back to square one of 'either pay up a big chunk of money now or miss out on some exclusive items later'.
I've already established above that if I miss out on something I'd rather not have the game at all so please no 'it doesn't matter if you miss out on a few units here and there, the game is perfectly playable' comments, they don't really work.
(of course you can write the exact same sentence as a reply and gather some thumb ups, people seem to find these kind of things funny laugh )

So a bundle option as an incentive to go 'all in' would be really nice. This or maybe remove the KS exclusives from the expansion boxes and add a discount for the KS backers. You will gain more backers that are going to buy the core set (at least) and are on the fence right now just because of the high price to get all the KS exclusives. All of these 'just the core set' backers are going to buy the expansions when they hit retail anyway.

Just my 2 cents.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Bowmangr wrote:
ShaneXtopher wrote:
Thanks for this. I'm one of those odd people who would rather have nothing than an incomplete set. And all these add-ons have officially priced me out.


I really don't think that this behavior is odd. I'm one of those people of course.
I want to back this game but the price for someone who wants to buy everything is already on 'I don't want to spend that much money on a single game' levels of expensive.
And even if I choose to leave some expansions for a possible retail purchase after I've played and established that I like the game to warrant investing in it, I still miss out because almost all of them, if not all, have Kickstarter exclusive items in them.

So we are back to square one of 'either pay up a big chunk of money now or miss out on some exclusive items later'.
I've already established above that if I miss out on something I'd rather not have the game at all so please no 'it doesn't matter if you miss out a few units here and there, the game is perfectly playable' comments, they don't really work.
(of course you can write the exact same sentence as a reply and gather some thumb ups, people seem to find these kind of things funny laugh )

So a bundle option as an incentive to go 'all in' would be really nice. This or maybe remove the KS exclusives from the expansion boxes and add a discount for the KS backers. You will gain more backers that are going to buy the core set (at least) and are on the fence right now just because of the high price to get all the KS exclusives. All of these 'just the core set' backers are going to buy the expansions when they hit retail anyway.

Just my 2 cents.


It doesn't matter if you miss out a few units here and there, the core game is perfectly playable
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Michael Carson
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Inmat4251 wrote:

Main Game Components
A) Core Game + SGs Only| $99

B) Above + 3 Main Expansions| $256

C) Above + MB Specific Add-Ons with Minis(including Terrain)|$346

D) Above + Conan Crossover| $375

E) Above + Ketos| $385


Just seeing this alone makes me shiver. After I just finished Pledging for Siege at the Citadel, this looks amazing but my wallet ...... still debating on final price tag.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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ShaneXtopher wrote:
Thanks for this. I'm one of those odd people who would rather have nothing than an incomplete set. And all these add-ons have officially priced me out.


I am with you... normally. The amount you get for the basic pledge is more than I could get if I just wanted to buy minis for an RPG, forget the actual game itself (which I think looks kind of boring). So not buying the expansions, to me, is like not buying Reaper's entire miniature line.
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Anders Pedersen
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Bowmangr wrote:
And even if I choose to leave some expansions for a possible retail purchase after I've played and established that I like the game to warrant investing in it, I still miss out because almost all of them, if not all, have Kickstarter exclusive items in them.

Yeah, this is the big problem for me.
I can live with not going all-in for now. But with exclusives in all boxes, I have started to question wether I even want to support these guys in the first place.
I currently swing between just the base pledge or nothing at all.
There is going to be enough content in the base pledge alone to keep me occupied until the next big thing catches my interest. But do I really want to support a company with such aggressive marketing ploys? On the other hand, how much do they actually earn on the base pledge?
Decisions, decisions....
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Vasilis
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dbc- wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
And even if I choose to leave some expansions for a possible retail purchase after I've played and established that I like the game to warrant investing in it, I still miss out because almost all of them, if not all, have Kickstarter exclusive items in them.

Yeah, this is the big problem for me.
I can live with not going all-in for now. But with exclusives in all boxes, I have started to question wether I even want to support these guys in the first place.
I currently swing between just the base pledge or nothing at all.
There is going to be enough content in the base pledge alone to keep me occupied until the next big thing catches my interest. But do I really want to support a company with such aggressive marketing ploys? On the other hand, how much do they actually earn on the base pledge?
Decisions, decisions....


I actually thought this whole thing over and finally decided that I can buy or pledge on 5-7 other games with the same money that I can get this one, so I'm officially out.
I would buy the core set if the expansions didn't have exclusives but as it is right now, I find waaaay more boardgaming value in investing my 400 euros to buy/pledge multiple other games.
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Jason
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Bowmangr wrote:
dbc- wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
And even if I choose to leave some expansions for a possible retail purchase after I've played and established that I like the game to warrant investing in it, I still miss out because almost all of them, if not all, have Kickstarter exclusive items in them.


Yeah, this is the big problem for me.
I can live with not going all-in for now. But with exclusives in all boxes, I have started to question wether I even want to support these guys in the first place.
I currently swing between just the base pledge or nothing at all.
There is going to be enough content in the base pledge alone to keep me occupied until the next big thing catches my interest. But do I really want to support a company with such aggressive marketing ploys? On the other hand, how much do they actually earn on the base pledge?
Decisions, decisions....


I actually thought this whole thing over and finally decided that I can buy or pledge on 5-7 other games with the same money that I can get this one, so I'm officially out.
I would buy the core set if the expansions didn't have exclusives but as it is right now, I find waaaay more boardgaming value in investing my 400 euros to buy/pledge multiple other games.


The "all or nothing" mindset baffles me. There are games that I love, that I don't have to own every retail expansion for. Let alone being upset over missing KS exclusives or promos.

The core box looks like good value for the price, especially due to all the unlocked content and exclusives. It seems like more than a complete game for $99 + S/H.

It's a nice incentive that they're giving people an exclusive for picking up the expansions early. But, the 3 most expensive expansions are offering 3 exclusive units for you paying over $150 up front. I'm OK with missing out on birds, automatons, and a dude when the core box probably has more content than I'll play. And, should I need more, I can buy the exclusives and miss out on barely anything.

The winged-ape for Conan (since I own Conan) is something I really want and think it'll be a fun figure for that world. Other than that, the $15-48 for the KS exclusive mini-expansions, eh, maybe one or two. The Manticore looks like it'll be fun to paint. Will I even notice not having the others? Probably not.

I enjoy playing the games, not collecting gaming bits.
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Vasilis
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VaultBoy wrote:
The "all or nothing" mindset baffles me. There are games that I love, that I don't have to own every retail expansion for. Let alone being upset over missing KS exclusives or promos.

The core box looks like good value for the price, especially due to all the unlocked content and exclusives. It seems like more than a complete game for $99 + S/H.

It's a nice incentive that they're giving people an exclusive for picking up the expansions early. But, the 3 most expensive expansions are offering 3 exclusive units for you paying over $150 up front. I'm OK with missing out on birds, automatons, and a dude when the core box probably has more content than I'll play. And, should I need more, I can buy the exclusives and miss out on barely anything.

The winged-ape for Conan (since I own Conan) is something I really want and think it'll be a fun figure for that world. Other than that, the $15-48 for the KS exclusive mini-expansions, eh, maybe one or two. The Manticore looks like it'll be fun to paint. Will I even notice not having the others? Probably not.

I enjoy playing the games, not collecting gaming bits.


In a (probably vain) effort to explain the 'mechanics' behind the specific mindset that baffles you I've put in bold the parts that can help and I will address them one by one.

1} Well, I'm NOT ok if I'm missing out on anything as long as it has ANY gameplay value. I can easily ignore cosmetic KSEs but anything that provides gameplay options that I don't have instantly makes me feel that my game set is incomplete
Also, I do tend to play to death any games that I buy, so the argument about the gameplay in the core box being enough isn't really working for me...

2} Buying the exclusives?
Even if I can find them later, I can only sell one of my kidneys on Ebay, I read somewhere that I absolutely need at least one to be able to play games so...

3} As I said, when I KNOW for a fact that buying X game in retail will provide me with less gameplay options with zero chance of reasonably getting the rest of them later than someone who just backed the game at the right time or had expendable cash to burn, I actually prefer to just not have the game at all.
It's not like there aren't any other games to play out there.

If the boardgame releases were 3-4 in a year I would think about it twice but nowadays tons of quality boardgames are coming out so why not just buy & play another, COMPLETE game instead?
Moreover, when we are talking about a 400 euros price range the above sentence changes even further to 'why not just buy FOUR or SIX other complete games instead. See?

4} People with the completist 'mindset' actually get more enjoyment out of their games when they don't have that irritating sensation in the back of their head telling them that 'Great game, if only you had more than 89% of it in your collection'. I really can't explain it better than that.

I can't convince you to understand the logic, because people with a different mindset will struggle to understand another different one. I get that and of course it works both ways.
I will never ever understand why people think that adding KSEs to EACH optional add-on is anything other than a marketing trick for example, but there will always be someone who would argue that someone who is willing to pay upfront a big chunk of money is ENTITLED to KSEs as a reward. Personally I find this argument extremely ridiculous but it's real, I've heard it.

Hope that helps, I think I derailed the original post a bit so I'm going to stop now.

Have fun! That's what counts. Different people have fun with different things. Spending disposable income on entertainment is a different choice for everyone. I just stated that my own disposable income feels much better spent on other things right now, no need to follow my example if it feels wrong for you. Everyone should do their own thing. meeple
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Chris Rindfleisch
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I like to call it the collector mentality. Once you have part of something, you feel the need to have the rest of it, even if you don't utilize all of it right away, if at all. I've done that with other things besides board games, like books, movies/tv shows and video game series because of that same mentality. Is it healthy? Debatable... but I will say, nothing quite gives a collector the feeling of satisfaction than opening a box knowing it has a COMPLETE set of something, or has the final piece that they have been missing.
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M. S.
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Bowmangr wrote:
...
I will never ever understand why people think that adding KSEs to EACH optional add-on is anything other than a marketing trick for example, but there will always be someone who would argue that someone who is willing to pay upfront a big chunk of money is ENTITLED to KSEs as a reward. Personally I find this argument extremely ridiculous but it's real, I've heard it....

of course you know that completionists are the reason to add a KSE to almost every item, right?
Even if some jump ship, the incentive for the rest seems to work in total.

While I don't feel entitled to KSEs and enjoyed some projects without or very few KSEs, of course they help to move up a decision on buying stuff depending your interest in them.
Personally I think, the core box has good value and I'm not sure what or if I add stuff right now to it.

The tricky part is, that most items of more niche or original products are implicitly KSE or at least you have no guarantee that any of it will make retail.
I think in this case they said the core box will make it definitely, the big box expansion probably and for the rest "will see" (leaving the question of when out of it completely).
So, in the end you also have to decide what specific items are of interest for you KSE label or not.

In the end it's a personal decision on a luxury item, if you do not feel it's worth it - for whatever reason - it's not worth it and as you mentioned there are many alternatives to choose from.
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Roberto Lanza
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A) Core + SGs| 385
B) Core + SGs and All Add-Ons| 603


Anyone happen to know the sizes?
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Anders Pedersen
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asgorn wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
...
I will never ever understand why people think that adding KSEs to EACH optional add-on is anything other than a marketing trick for example, but there will always be someone who would argue that someone who is willing to pay upfront a big chunk of money is ENTITLED to KSEs as a reward. Personally I find this argument extremely ridiculous but it's real, I've heard it....

of course you know that completionists are the reason to add a KSE to almost every item, right?
Even if some jump ship, the incentive for the rest seems to work in total.

While I don't feel entitled to KSEs and enjoyed some projects without or very few KSEs, of course they help to move up a decision on buying stuff depending your interest in them.
Personally I think, the core box has good value and I'm not sure what or if I add stuff right now to it.

The tricky part is, that most items of more niche or original products are implicitly KSE or at least you have no guarantee that any of it will make retail.
I think in this case they said the core box will make it definitely, the big box expansion probably and for the rest "will see" (leaving the question of when out of it completely).
So, in the end you also have to decide what specific items are of interest for you KSE label or not.

In the end it's a personal decision on a luxury item, if you do not feel it's worth it - for whatever reason - it's not worth it and as you mentioned there are many alternatives to choose from.


The problem is also deciding what units are interesting for personal preferences. Without having played the game, how am I supposed to know exactly what units I would get the most out of? And would I change my mind over time, preferring other units and playing styles?
I have gone all-in on a lot of games in the past. But realizing how much "crap" I have lying around, unplayed, I have started to change my behaviour.
Sadly, with exclusives, it is hard to make the right choice if you only want to get select expansions...
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Chris Rindfleisch
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turbocooler wrote:
A) Core + SGs| 385
B) Core + SGs and All Add-Ons| 603


Anyone happen to know the sizes?


It was mentioned at some point that the cards are standard playing card size (so think Magic the Gathering for comparison).
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M. S.
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dbc- wrote:
...

The problem is also deciding what units are interesting for personal preferences. Without having played the game, how am I supposed to know exactly what units I would get the most out of? And would I change my mind over time, preferring other units and playing styles?
I have gone all-in on a lot of games in the past. But realizing how much "crap" I have lying around, unplayed, I have started to change my behaviour.
Sadly, with exclusives, it is hard to make the right choice if you only want to get select expansions...

true, it's not that easy.
with minis, I generally decide from the visual design and the overall distribution of types, e.g., balancing of heroes vs. monsters or skills.
Sure, that doesn't mean that they be necessarily the ones I would get the most out of, given that you have to play and see combinations together to judge that, however I also won't experience that a KSE that I didn't get would have been better.

But basically that is why I usually don't get Artbooks etc as addon; never buy a book by its cover...
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Daniel Guinoza
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dbc- wrote:
The problem is also deciding what units are interesting for personal preferences. Without having played the game, how am I supposed to know exactly what units I would get the most out of? And would I change my mind over time, preferring other units and playing styles?
I have gone all-in on a lot of games in the past. But realizing how much "crap" I have lying around, unplayed, I have started to change my behaviour.
Sadly, with exclusives, it is hard to make the right choice if you only want to get select expansions...


That depends on how you approach games. If you are good at drafting/prereleases with games like MTG, Hearthstone, etc, you get pretty good at knowing the value of stuff even without having played them.

About your preferences changing over time, it is a broad question, but here are some guidelines:
1) Do you get bored quickly? If so, maximize unit diversity per dollar.
2) Based on other games, what roles do you usually assume?
a) Direct vs Indirect conflict: Kill(Ares) vs Collect Omphalos(Fox)
b) Preferred element/thematic: Fire, Earth, Water, Death
c) Preferred role: Melee, Tank, Mage, Archer
d) Will you play 1vs1, 2vs2, free for all, mainly skirmishes or mainly scenarios?
e) If you are the sole provider of this game's content, then also consider your group's tendencies as to what they may also like.
3) Do you like to be super competitive and maximize value? (If you like agricola, caverna, etc) then you may want as many units to explore as many combos as possible.
4) The devs are considering strongly setting up a competitive scene. It is unknown if KSE's will be allowed (driving up their value) or not (driving down their value).
5) The base game + SG already provide a lot of content. Does your analysis leave any weak spots you can solve with some expansions? Do those expansions cost around $200 or less? If they cost more than $200 you may want to consider the bundles.
6) Is there any accesory/book/addon I want? If you have OCD, you may want the colored clips, but also would be already all in and you shouldn't be reading this guide that makes you not buy some stuff. If you like playng role games, you may want to consider an all-in bundle as it is too expensive by itself. If you play with a big group, you may want more dice.

Based on what you said (you have a lot of unplayed stuff) either you or your group stick to some favourite units, don't want to explore others, don't have enough time to go through everything, or whatever. If that is the case, then don't get everything. If you don't get everything, a base pledge is more than enough (it is the core game plus like 6 expansions as stretch goals). If you are worried about exclusivity and can afford it, get as many exclusives as you can afford.

As an example, if I went through everything I described, I may get the core and maybe some expansions if they are absolutely worth it. I also know which units I will like: Poseidon, Andromeda, Scylla. I think they look ok, so for me the Poseidon expansion has good value.

I know I will abosultely hate Zeus and Enceladus for being extremely slow (tempo speaking) and overcosted. Hera is the same except she brings +2 RP. I will use a lot: Poseidon, Athena, Ares, Hecate, Helios. Since I already dislike a considerable fraction of gods, it is convenient for me to get more, thus the Titans expansion is something to consider (I love all except Enceladus)

As for the heroes, monsters and troops, I'm fine with the base+SG. Thus, no expansions should cover those.

As for accesories, maybe a set of dice.

Hope this helps you decide.
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David A
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Yeah, this game grew too rapidly and became so big with so much "must have" (not literally, I know the base game is the only "must have") that it exited my scope because I just can't realistically do it anymore. This makes me sad
 
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Willem Verheij
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I'm planning to keep my pledge in check.. I mean its an amazing boardgame, but still one boardgame. Spending 500 on just a boardgame no matter how awesome is just too much of a plunge for me.

I may not use most of it anyways.

What I plan to get is:

-God pledge, naturally.
It already contains so much variety.

-Oedipus and the Sphinx.
Its kickstarter exclusive, the abilities of both figures seem very usefull and I think the extra scenarios will be a lot of fun too.

-Heroes of Troy.
Heard it might not be available in stores or quite later, and to be fair this is my favorite expansion of them all. I like these heroes and they all offer nice abilities.

-Either the Haephestus or Hera expansion.
Still on the fence about it.. Haephestus has the nicer exclusive, but overall I like the Hera expansion a bit more. But either way I'd like extra boards, if that last expansion is just boards I might grab that instead as a cheaper alternative.

As for why I don't plan to get the others..
I feel that the god pledge already gives plenty of creatures, so I dont feel a need to add more. Creature based packs also offer less gameplay wise because the sculpts are bigger thus cost more, but gameplay wise a creature adds as much to the game as a hero.
Hence why I wont get the titan pack either.
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Erik Andersson
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I really don´t see the need to point out that you only pledge for the base game, it is people like us who go all in that unlock all those free plastic for your base pledge. You´re welcome.
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Willem Verheij
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I do appreciate it that others pledge more thus help unlock more free stuff.

But many smaller pledges from different people also add up. Often people simply can't afford more either. If you have the financial security to be able to get the full package without it affecting you negatively then I salute you. If I had that security I'd probably get the full package too. But I don't.

Hence I did my christmas shopping a bit earlier this year so that I'd know what I would have left on my bank account, what I'd have available for this kickstarter. I still like to keep a bit of a buffer there too for food, automatic monthly payments and all that.

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Rhalius wrote:
I do appreciate it that others pledge more thus help unlock more free stuff.

But many smaller pledges from different people also add up. Often people simply can't afford more either. If you have the financial security to be able to get the full package without it affecting you negatively then I salute you. If I had that security I'd probably get the full package too. But I don't.

Hence I did my christmas shopping a bit earlier this year so that I'd know what I would have left on my bank account, what I'd have available for this kickstarter. I still like to keep a bit of a buffer there too for food, automatic monthly payments and all that.


Totally agree. Even apart from different financial situations, let's not forget that not everybody had the opportunity to test the game during the pre-KS MBP tour. If I hadn't been lucky enough to see the game in person at Essen Spiel, I probably wouldn't have gone for Typhon level either.

That said, in terms of stretch goals the real MVPs of the campaign are the twelve backers who are in it only for the RPG.
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AR Key
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In case you find this usefull, there is some more numbers here.
I think i updated last time on Hera (then i found out i could pay for typhon bundle and stopped). Ill update if i find sometime today

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c6qqS14DOJGC8l66oKgFBTz8...

EDIT: Updated til circes wolves. I think i didnt miss anything
 
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