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Specter Ops» Forums » Rules

Subject: Puppet jumping into car after remote sensor? rss

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Jonathan Starr
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So a little scenario popped up when doing play by forum. I had The Puppet, he was adjacent to the car, and at the start of my turn, I had him do the motion sensor. Then, I had him enter the car to end his turn.

My partner feels it's incorrect, that The Puppet can't get into the car, and now after a discussion, we're both not sure.

As it states in the rules, "Entering or exiting the vehicle with a hunter immediately ends that hunter's movement for the turn."

The special ability I used was "Remote Sensor: Instead of moving the Puppet on a turn, you may use the vehicle's special ability..."

He stated you couldn't do that according to this from the official FAQ:

Q.Can a hunter enter the vehicle and use the motion sensor in the same turn?
A. No, the hunter must start their turn in the vehicle to use the motion sensor.


However I take that as the entering or exiting the vehicle ends your turn, so the other way around should work for the puppet.

Then I came across this thread:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19576815#19576815

Where essentially Emerson states (or confirms) that using Control Relay (the other puppet special ability which reads similarly) replaces movement, and that entering or exiting the vehicle is part of movement, so he can't enter the vehicle...

But if that's the case, why does the FAQ read like this?

Q. Can you use the motion sensor and then exit the vehicle?
A. Yes, using the motion sensor is treated as a vehicle ability, the same as driving the vehicle. A hunter can drive the vehicle and step out. Or if the vehicle did not move, use the motion sensor and then step out.


So is using the motion sensor in the vehicle considered to be the same as movement, but using the remote sensor is not? I'm a bit lost.
 
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Jeff Carter
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The way I interpret them, The Puppet can enter the vehicle after using the Remote Sensor. Look at it like this:
*Entering or exiting a vehicle is part of movement, but ends your movement.
*The motion sensor is part of movement. You cannot move the vehicle if you use it, but may exit the vehicle afterwards.
*The remote sensor is part of movement. You cannot move your character if you use it, but may enter the vehicle afterwards.

As a result, you could not use the Remote Sensor after exiting the vehicle either.
 
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Jonathan Starr
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IdleHacker wrote:
The way I interpret them, The Puppet can enter the vehicle after using the Remote Sensor. Look at it like this:
*Entering or exiting a vehicle is part of movement, but ends your movement.
*The motion sensor is part of movement. You cannot move the vehicle if you use it, but may exit the vehicle afterwards.
*The remote sensor is part of movement. You cannot move your character if you use it, but may enter the vehicle afterwards.

As a result, you could not use the Remote Sensor after exiting the vehicle either.


Perhaps. That is how I saw it before.

I'm just a bit at a loss with the thread where emerson stated that Control Relay replaces movement and therefore you cannot enter the vehicle afterwards.

Because both Control Relay and Remote Sensor begin with "Instead of moving the Puppet on a turn, (insert special ability)." Plus, Control Relay is even closer to moving, as you are moving the vehicle.

Perhaps it's just a matter of interpretation, depending on what others say.
 
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Jonathan Starr
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Whoops, one thing I forgot was that you need to be on the same space as the vehicle to get into it, unlike getting out onto an adjacent space. So my move was wrong.

Regardless, the same question would remain if you are on the vehicle space instead of adjacent to it.
 
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Jeff Carter
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I guess he's saying that it replaces your entire movement phase instead of just not allowing you to move...which is weird, since the motion sensor and the remote sensor are worded almost identically except replacing the vehicle with the puppet.
 
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Tolis Koutsikos

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I don't think there's anything contradicting actually, although a few things are rather implied than clearly defined.

Going by your quotes as I haven't doublechecked the rulebook:

You need to be able to move to enter/exit the vehicle, and it is actually movement. Thus using any of Puppet's abilities prevents him from entering or exiting it.

If you do enter/exit the vehicle as the Puppet you have moved, so you can't use your abilities ("Instead of moving the Puppet on a turn..." etc.).

The vehicle's motion sensor prevent's the vehicle's movement, but not the hunter's, who can then exit normally (then the other rule about ending your movement when exiting is applied).

The Puppet's Control Relay is not exactly equivalent to the vehicle's motion scanner. It is a hunter ability and prevents that hunter's movement. So no entering/exiting. It is not just the vehicle's ability.
 
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Jonathan Starr
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Yeah, but what I find contradicting is that the motion sensor, the remote sensor, and the control relay are all worded similarly. The remote sensor and control relay both say "Instead of moving the puppet on a turn..." and the Motion Sensor says, "If a hunter is in the vehicle at the start of his turn, instead of moving the vehicle..."

Yet according to the thread I linked, Control Relay (hunter ability) and Motion Sensor (vehicle ability) are two different things. Motion Detector is like movement, yet Control Relay is separate from movement? With that train of thought, Remote Sensor (hunter ability), despite being worded like Motion Sensor (vehicle ability), is different from it?

I suppose it comes down to hunter's special abilities vs vehicle's special abilities. Yet the Remote Sensor says "You may use the vehicle's special ability (motion sensor)/"

I suppose we should treat them differently according to Emmerson, but it feels odd to me. I feel it needs to be a bit more clear.

IdleHacker wrote:
I guess he's saying that it replaces your entire movement phase instead of just not allowing you to move...which is weird, since the motion sensor and the remote sensor are worded almost identically except replacing the vehicle with the puppet.


Yeah, exactly what I feel. If a hunter's ability isn't movement and doesn't let you enter, then the same should go for motion sensor, and you shouldn't be allowed to exit. Yet the FAQ states differently.
 
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Tolis Koutsikos

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JonathanStarr wrote:
Yeah, but what I find contradicting is that the motion sensor, the remote sensor, and the control relay are all worded similarly. The remote sensor and control relay both say "Instead of moving the puppet on a turn..." and the Motion Sensor says, "If a hunter is in the vehicle at the start of his turn, instead of moving the vehicle..."

Why would you say that thay are worded similarly, when they are not .

JonathanStarr wrote:
Yet according to the thread I linked, Control Relay (hunter ability) and Motion Sensor (vehicle ability) are two different things.

Exactly.

JonathanStarr wrote:
Motion Detector is like movement, yet Control Relay is separate from movement? With that train of thought, Remote Sensor (hunter ability), despite being worded like Motion Sensor (vehicle ability), is different from it?

Motion detector is instead of vehicle movement, not hunter movement. Remote sensor refers to hunter movement and again, not worded similarly.

JonathanStarr wrote:
I suppose it comes down to hunter's special abilities vs vehicle's special abilities. Yet the Remote Sensor says "You may use the vehicle's special ability (motion sensor)"

Still, Remote Sensor has its own rules ("Instead of moving Puppet") besides motion sensor's rules.

JonathanStarr wrote:
I suppose we should treat them differently according to Emmerson, but it feels odd to me. I feel it needs to be a bit more clear.

Yeah, I think some parts are implied rather than stated clearly, requiring a few careful readings to figure them out.
 
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Jonathan Starr
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Quote:
Why would you say that thay are worded similarly, when they are not .


I guess it could be a matter of perspective but: "Instead of moving the..." they both contain those exact words... That's why I said that.

Quote:
Yeah, I think some parts are implied rather than stated clearly, requiring a few careful readings to figure them out.


Yeah, that's the problem with this rule book sometimes. Simple rules, but when it comes to complex situations, clarity is needed.
 
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