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Eclipse» Forums » Rules

Subject: some problems for alliance, please answer that ~ thanks ! rss

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waytim calys
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1. is alliance only have 3 ? because you know, 2 players mutual have diplomatic title . their become , then leave the alliance , do that repeat to 3 . then of the game , no one can formation the alliance.

2. the game rules, when end of the game, the vp is same , the source most will be win . but , if the vp and source is samge, this time , who can win ?
 
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Radosław Michalak
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1. Yes there are only 3 Alliances, with only 3 tokens for each. You can't join and leave as often as you want. You have to plan it. And you can't enter the same alliance twice. Also remember that you get -3 VPs for broken alliance.

2. You mean resources? If there is a tie for both VPs and resources, then there is no more tie breakers. Both players win.
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waytim calys
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about the problem 1.
do you know that ? in 4 players game. if two players , in a turn(any one) , formation the red alliance , and then , leave the red alliance , an then formation the blue alliance , leave the blue alliance , and last , formation the green alliance . after this time , no one alliance can be formation . the green alliance will be - 12 vp , but their can be a team to attack other players .
that's so bug !!! in the 4 or 6 players game !!! how about you think ?
 
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Radosław Michalak
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Yes, it's possible. If they think the -12VPs is worth it, they can do this.
Also they can't do this in one turn. You can leave an alliance only at the beginning of your turn, so they need at least 3 turns for that.
And they risk beeing betrayed - when one player leaves and the another doesn't, the 1st is left with -3VPs, while the 2nd still have +2VPs.
 
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waytim calys
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you must know that : in 6 players game, when 3 players formation the alliance and others players not to be a alliance . the player of alliance can be a team to attack any one players ! i think , no one player can defens 3 players attack . and then , when the one players is die . other two players will be die . i think that, yeah.
if the rules change to in a round , formation a alliance , must wait for next round , can leave the alliance . i fell good for now . what about you ?
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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You're overthinking things.
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Peter Bakija
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waytim wrote:
you must know that : in 6 players game, when 3 players formation the alliance and others players not to be a alliance . the player of alliance can be a team to attack any one players ! i think , no one player can defens 3 players attack . and then , when the one players is die . other two players will be die . i think that, yeah.


We know this. If there are 6 players in a game, and three of them form an alliance, and the other three players don't, the alliance of 3 will have a significant advantage over the individual players. Correct. As such, the other three players will likely feel compelled to join another 3 player alliance, so it will be 3 vs 3.

Yes, it is theoretically possible for 3 players to start an alliance and then immediately dissolve it on that same turn. And then start a new alliance. But as there are three alliance tokens, and if you immediately leave an alliance, you get -3VPs, so no one will want to be in an alliance with you, the following is what will actually happen:

(Player 1's Action): Player 1 suggests alliance with player 2. They found alliance. Player 3 joins the alliance. Player 1 then leaves the alliance (getting -3VPs). Player 1 suggests a new alliance with player 4. Player four declines (as why form an alliance with someone who immediately leaves it and already has a -3VP penalty?).

(Player 2's Action): Player 2 leaves alliance (getting -3VP). Suggests alliance with Player 4. Play 4 continues to decline.

(Player 3's Action): Player 3 is part of a 1 person alliance. They are up 2VPs. But have no allies. They can sit on the +2VP one person alliance. Or they can leave the alliance (getting -3VP) and then suggesting a new one. Which probably goes nowhere, as again, lack of trust and they have -3VP penalty.

(Player 4's Action): Player 4 suggests an alliance with players 5 and or 6. They make an alliance. They have a significant advantage over the players who started the alliance and then immediately left it, trying to use up the alliance counters. Game continues as normal.


 
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Peter Bakija
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It seems like it is really unlikely that one could use up all the alliance counters before everyone has a chance to be in an alliance.

I think worst case scenario is:

(P1 Turn): P1 forms alliance with P2 and P3. Immediately leaves alliance (-3VP).

(P2 Turn): P2 leaves alliance (-3VP). Forms second alliance with P1 (P1 and P2 now in 2 person second alliance, with a net -1VP each).

(P3 Turn): P3 leaves alliance (-3VP). Can't form the 3rd alliance with P1 and P2, as P1 and P2 are still in the second alliance. P3 could try and form an alliance with P4, P5, or P6, but it seems like they would refuse, due to P3 having a -3VP penalty, and P4, P5, and P6 now can form the 3rd alliance with each other and be ahead. P3 could get invited back into the 2nd P1 and P2 alliance, but then that whole alliance is at a net -1VP penalty (all three of them have -3VP from breaking an alliance, and then +2 VP from being in a second alliance) while the second 3 player alliance is at a net +2VP (giving them a total 3VP lead over the other alliance from the get go).

Seems like this sort of shenanagin is going to shoot players 1, 2, and 3 in the foot for attempting. They just all lose VPs and gain nothing.

It is theoretically possible for P3 to leave the first alliance and then form an alliance with P4 and/or P5 and/or P6 (pick up to 2). Which would result in, for example:

-P1 and P2 in an alliance with net -1VP each.

-P3 and P4 in an alliance with net +.5VP each.

-P5 and P6 unable to be in an alliance, as all three alliance tokens have been used up.

But P4 (or whoever) has serious disincentive to join forces with P3, as joining forces with P5 and/or P6 results in a much better VP gain.

 
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