$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 133.86

7,821 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
49.3% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Speed Circuit» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cornering/Speed Question (3M rules ONLY) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
JP Trostle
United States
Durham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
This came up last night in a race where I introduced the 3M version of the game to a bunch of 20-somethings (including two programmers and a writer).

A heated discussion broke out over whether a player in a corner, beginning a new game turn with his car in the last marked square in a corner (100mph in this case), could accelerate to 160. Note: the car had been following the arrow, going 120mph, so had not incurred the penalty the previous game turn.

Their argument was the rules only state a penalty is applied when a car *enters* corner, and that if they were already *in* the corner, they could accelerate out of it at a higher speed without further penalty.

I said the way we had always played it is that you compared your speed marked on the dial for that turn to the safe speed printed in the corner space.

Which one is correct in the 3M version?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Dauphin
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools

The language is chosen very carefully.
Your speed applies to the square that you enter.
The square you start in, you already dealt with, because you entered it last turn and had to abide by the limit then.

This is similar to wargames that tell you the cost of moving is paid for each hex you enter.

If you think about the number of squares that are identified with the given speed limit, you should only have the restriction applied to that many squares. These are counted as you enter them, but if you had to count any *again* as you left them, that would increase the number of squares that limit your speed. This would be unfair to any car which landed on such a square compared to any car that managed to pass over them all in one turn.



5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Hoyt
United States
Durango
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You specified the 3M rules, which I have never seen, but the AH rules are clear

Quote:
6.5 If a car is unable to complete a corner during a move, it may continue at the same or slower speed during the next move with no additional penalty...


Italics in the rules

This is a great rule. It makes getting through a corner in one turn imperative so you can accelerate the next turn. Or, sometimes, it makes sense to just barely reach a corner, at excess speed, knowing you'll only pay the penalty once.

Now I want to go look up how it is done in Championship Formula Racing which is the soon to be published successor to Speed Circuit
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabio Pellegrino
Italy
Palermo
Sicilia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I fully agree ,
we in Italy play the same way.
Many player instead love to accelerate from last square corner (house rule), like exit from that......but this rule change all parametyers of the tracks.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Dauphin
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools

I don't see the need for the house rule.
If you enter the last square of a corner you have completed the corner. The next square you enter will not be a corner square so you are legally entitled to accelerate without penalty.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabio Pellegrino
Italy
Palermo
Sicilia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
tanik wrote:

I don't see the need for the house rule.
If you enter the last square of a corner you have completed the corner. The next square you enter will not be a corner square so you are legally entitled to accelerate without penalty.



It is a wrong interpretation, rules says :

A corner is any space containing a posted speed
limit. A corner can be composed of any number of
adjacent corner spaces. (so last square still is a corner)

A car which has not completed a corner during a
move may not elect to increase its speed in the
following turn should that increase exceed posted
speed or arrow limits.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JP Trostle
United States
Durham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
blockhead wrote:
You specified the 3M rules, which I have never seen, but the AH rules are clear

Quote:
6.5 If a car is unable to complete a corner during a move, it may continue at the same or slower speed during the next move with no additional penalty...


Italics in the rules

This is a great rule. It makes getting through a corner in one turn imperative so you can accelerate the next turn. Or, sometimes, it makes sense to just barely reach a corner, at excess speed, knowing you'll only pay the penalty once.



Ah yes, I made this point too — and the player countered with "I haven't paid a penalty yet, so why would there be an additional penalty" [remember, he was following the arrow with its benefits.]

It's abundantly clear if you exceeded the speed in a way that cost you Wear, you only had to pay it once for that corner. But he hadn't done that for this particular corner.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Hoyt
United States
Durango
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Right. But you still can't accelerate if you start in a corner space.

(again, this is the AH rule. Hope somebody posts the 3M rule)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Stone
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mb
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Dauphin
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools

blockhead wrote:
Right. But you still can't accelerate if you start in a corner space.

(again, this is the AH rule. Hope somebody posts the 3M rule)


So has this just become general consensus or can somebody identify an authority (Q&A or something) that clarifies this?

AH's All-Star Replay (Vol.II#3) printed the following,

Driving to Win in Speed Circuit wrote:

Now for a short word on the rules. One of the main points of confusion concerning Speed Circuit is the speed change in a corner. As a simulation of real driving techniques, a car is allowed to increase its speed on the last corner space...


Contrary to a previous post this is not a variant.
This is Avalon Hill publishing an article with a rule clarification.
It's the most definitive explanation of the issue I have ever seen and coupled with the logic of paying penalties and costs for the square *entered* is quite a decisive clarification for my purposes.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Douglas Schulz
United States
Rockville
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
blockhead wrote:
Now I want to go look up how it is done in Championship Formula Racing which is the soon to be published successor to Speed Circuit


Championship Formula Racing allows acceleration from the last space of a corner.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Hoyt
United States
Durango
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Tanik and Doug, that seems pretty definitive that a car starting a turn in the last square of a corner can accelerate.

The (at least my) confusion stems from the phrase "not yet completed". A car that finishes Turn 1 on the last square of a corner has "not yet completed" when it comes time to write speed for Turn 2.

All other references are to the next square the car will enter.

Here is the actual rule from Championship Formula Racing that Doug mentioned
Quote:
The Last Space of a Corner
As a point of clarification, because you deal with speeds in corners when you enter corner spaces, if you end a move on the last space of a corner you have effectively cleared the corner. You will not enter another space in that corner when you move next turn so your move is not restricted by the corner you are leaving.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Dauphin
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools

And this seems to be what throws a lot of people off.
You're actually sitting in the corner when it's time to start your next turn. It does appear as though you should be counted as in the corner.
Too bad Speed Circuit's rules weren't as clear as Championship Formula Racing.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Hoyt
United States
Durango
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tanik wrote:

And this seems to be what throws a lot of people off.
You're actually sitting in the corner when it's time to start your next turn. It does appear as though you should be counted as in the corner.
Too bad Speed Circuit's rules weren't as clear as Championship Formula Racing.



or, this just makes me look forward to CFR all the more!

(but I will have to rethink cornering, apparently I've been playing this wrong for decades)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Douglas Schulz
United States
Rockville
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I think any system of rules that have been around as long as Speed Circuit's gets holes poked in it and accumulates miss-interpretations or confusions along the way.

I am hoping that I cleaned most of those up with CFR (or intentionally changed them) but I suspect I also created new ones. :)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JP Trostle
United States
Durham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
philottee wrote:


Ok, thanks — THIS was what I was looking for!

Again, only seeking clarification on the 3M version. Not going to muddy the waters with other rules sets. It's challenging enough to get eurofed 20-somethings to play a 45-year old title, especially considering not one of them has ever heard of Avalon Hill, or could care less about their ruling.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.