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Bios: Genesis» Forums » Rules

Subject: Parasite purchases using your own catalysts rss

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Simon Skov
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Living Rules B3 states
Quote:
Easily Missed Rule: You cannot spend these Catalysts for your Parasite (which is in another tableau and thus spends from that tableau pool).

but is this not contradicted by section H, which states
Quote:
Gene Transfer Agents. A Parasite player can donate Catalysts to the tableau pool of its Host player at any time.

effectively allowing a player to make parasite purchases using catalysts from either the owner or the host's owner?
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Dom Rougier
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Those are both correct, as far as the the rules-as-written are concerned.

Can't speak for the intent, of course.

I'm not sure it's a terrible thing, either - one consequence of the parasite purchase timing is that it encourages the host to empty their pool of catalysts, forcing them to adapt and mutate, quite aside from the Red Queen arms race.
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Franz Derphausen
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This is correct. You cannot spend your catalsysts for your parasite, you have to spend the catalysts of the player you have parasitized (if that's even a word).

This is what wikipedia has to say about the issue:

In biology/ecology, parasitism is a non-mutual symbiotic relationship between species, where one species, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host.

See how beautifully the rules reflect reality?
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Simon Skov
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While I appreciate the beauty of rules reflecting reality, I feel it is obscured somewhat by the fact that it makes the rules clunkier. Why say "you cannot do A, you must instead do B!" only to say, tens of pages later, "oh, by the way, you can actually do both A and B." I'm going to make a suggestion for a change in the living rules.
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Franz Derphausen
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Ah, I see now, you are right. Furthermore, wouldn't it make sense, thematically and also in accoradance with the corresponding annotation #37, that this transfer of "currency" be only allowed if the parasite has HGT? I feel like the game and its theme are somewhat at odds here. But just a little.
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Simon Skov
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I haven't actually played the game yet, just trying to get the rules down before-hand, so I can't really say how that would affect gameplay. Feel free to suggest it to Phil yourself
 
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Adam Gastonguay
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If I remember right, the ability to donate catalysts from parasite to host was a later rule add-on, which probably is what creates the clunkiness in the rules.

Probably should have removed the "Easily missed rule" highlighted above.
 
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Dom B.
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This has been clarified in the living rules: B3 now says "Easily Missed Rule: For your Parasite, you may pay with your own Catalysts, the host's Catalysts, or some combination thereof."
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Colin Taylor
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Dom22 wrote:
This has been clarified in the living rules: B3 now says "Easily Missed Rule: For your Parasite, you may pay with your own Catalysts, the host's Catalysts, or some combination thereof."


But can a Foreign Gene do the same? The Gene Transfer Agent rule doesn't mention it, but the example below does allow it. There is a note in the Living Rules on this, but no actual edit of the rules to clarify.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Simon Skov
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Since foreign genes cannot donate catalysts to the tableau of the organism they are in, they cannot use their own catalysts for purchases. They can only use the catalysts in the tableau of the organism they are in.
 
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Colin Taylor
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nom_ wrote:
Since foreign genes cannot donate catalysts to the tableau of the organism they are in, they cannot use their own catalysts for purchases. They can only use the catalysts in the tableau of the organism they are in.


Right, but the example right below the GTA section does exactly that:

Bios: Genesis Rules wrote:
Example: As Player Yellow, your Foreign Gene inside Player Red’s Bacteria is in danger of getting killed off by its RNAi immune system (ATP synthase). Noting that the Bacteria has enough Chromosome cubes to become a Macroorganism, during your purchase phase, you buy the lamp shell with one of your Catalysts and install it on the Bacteria.


Colin
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Simon Skov
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I just had a look in the living rules, and Phil himself is asking for clarification on that point, so it seems the rules are unclear on this subject.
 
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