$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 86.64

5,704 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
35.9% of Goal | 27 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion» Forums » General

Subject: How is BSG with all Exodus modules? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Last Sunday morning I sat down and set up a mock game of BSG consisting of the base game plus everything in the Exodus Expansion. I wanted to make myself familiar with the modules that our group hasn’t touched yet, the whole Ionian Nebula thing, personal goals, and the Last Five cards. Our group has played BSG four or five times now with almost the same configuration of modules: base game, Pegasus meat shield, Cylon Fleet Board, skill cards incl. up to the Exodus expansion. We played once with a Cylon Leader and Daybreak agenda cards, but the others felt it was the least dramatic game, because they knew I was a Cylon and that diminished their “Who’s the Cylon!” deduction game pleasure. In hindsight, I think they didn’t understand how the CL agenda cards worked, or maybe they just didn’t care and always assumed I worked against the humans, although I made it clear before the start of the game, that my motives can change – just like theirs after the sleeper phase –, but my agendas can also favour the humans although my actions might seem to hint otherwise.

As the mock game progressed, and I began to see how the allies, trauma tokens, personal goal cards all interacted, I thought to myself that this could be a step up the notch for the other players who really dig this whole mind-games, deduction, bluffing thing. Up until now, many choices on crisis cards were – depending on the board state – relatively straightforward for human players, i.e. choosing the, perceived by the other players, worse option marked that player as a traitor, and it also helped the hidden Cylons redirect accusations towards that “traitor”. Personal goals seem to obfuscate that perceived dividing line between the “right” choice and the “bad” choice. Furthermore, because the two possible results of an NPC encounter are printed on the ally cards, drawing the trauma token another player just deposited on the ally card adds another layer of mind-games as to why that player chose to put that token – the bad one – and not the other one – the good one – on that card. So my question goes out to all BSG veterans who played with the entire Exodus box, how does it change the game?

tl;dr: Is BSG with the Exodus Expansion a more interesting game for players who like mind-games and bluffing, but dislike CL and CL agendas?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth H
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
First, when you played with a Cylon Leader, how many players were in the game? If it was 5 or less, then yeah, Cylon Leaders do not shine in that situation, since there is only 1 true Cylon who misses out on real cooperation. If you have at least 6, then you can have Cylon Leaders without missing out on any full Cylon deduction. Once you understand how the motives work, there's a lot more deduction to be had!

Anyway, to address your actual questions. The modules in Exodus work well together. Ionian Nebula was obviously intended to work with the Cylon Fleet Board (as the Battle of the Ionian Nebula does not come with Civilians). Final Five and Personal Goals work well enough independently, but do encourage the Exodus loyalty card rules. Personal goals are the least essential part of the package, for sure.

Personally, Ionian Nebula games are the most interesting to me. They can also be quite hard, from the human perspective. I have been in many games where the humans have died before the Crossroads even happens.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next total solar eclipse holiday in 2017 in the USA.
mbmbmbmbmb
We love Cylon Leader Motives (Daybreak) with 4 and 6 players. We use everything else except the allies/Ionian Nebula from Exodus.

(Edit: We played with allies/Ionian Nebula with 3 and 4 players before Daybreak. The allies are sort of an extra player, and the management of trauma gives a little extra spice for 3-p games. Currently though, if we play with 3, it will be our Three Cylon Leaders variant.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Derphausen wrote:
tl;dr: Is BSG with the Exodus Expansion a more interesting game for players who like mind-games and bluffing, but dislike CL and CL agendas?


Much like with anything else in the series, it can work, but can only do so much. You definitely reach an impasse once people get to know the stuff and the cards. However, it still adds some nice paces of change, especially once players are familiar with the base game.


With PG, you have plausible reason to not always jump ASAP when in danger, or let key resources (Like morale, fuel, and pop) dwindle. And it is neat to have a chance to be a revealed human for once cool

FF.. it does give pause to Baltar's OPG, and otherwise, viewing Loyalty cards otherwise, and provides a bit of penalty for wanton executions.


I like IN b/c the allies do make you think outside the box... you need to deal with them, else they lock down key locations. Some also have special effects that you couldn't do otherwise. It also gives you a direct reason to be selfish (besides the "I might turn into a sleeper cylon later on" excuse), as you have to look after yourself as well as your own team (I do like the rule that if you're eliminated, you also lose)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
Hey!
mbmbmbmbmb
Ionian Nebula attempts to force players to hurt their own team to selfishly avoid player elimination. I don't believe it does a good job at bolstering f mind games and bluffing. It also can be an exercise in futility since the module only has limited support (few crossroads cards) and some characters have a frustrating time getting rid of Trauma. Also, you can get executed for no reason--killing a lot of the mind games if a Cylon gets hit.

I think the only setup that supports mind games and bluffing is the base game, in my opinion.

After multiple playthroughs, you should have a very very good understanding of which resource losses can be afforded. For the most part, you have excess amounts of Fuel/Food/Morale/Population and depending on your characters abilities...you might feel better about losing some resources over others.

E.g. The Admiral can afford to dip into the fuel resource because, in the end, he is the one that gets to choose whether more is lost on a rescue mission or future destination choices. However, is the Admiral player doing so because he is a Cylon or is he doing it because it's possible he may turn Cylon?

Same goes for the President and their choices to lose food. Pilots decisions to allow population loss by withholding evasive maneuvers. And the crew's joint decisions to tank skill checks to sacrifice morale. In general, you have around 2-3 "excess resources" of each type and you should only feel comfortable losing resources you exert control over. Political Leaders should fear population and fuel loss (since pilots control population and the admiralty controls fuel), and Pilots should fear food/morale loss (since their cards are usually not great at defeating the skill check mechanic).

There's a lot of good balance here...that pits players against one another and is the breeding ground for intrigue and mind games and sets up fights for control via AQ, Admin and the Brig locations.

However, until players understand this balance of resources, it's hard to play mindgames with other players. Morale loss is the only resource players are OK losing--but lose Food on a Shortage? I almost always see players choose cards when Food loss can clearly be afforded...

If you want mind games and intrigue, go back to the base game...Ionian Nebula does not offer what you are looking for.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Kwijiboe wrote:
Also, you can get executed for no reason--killing a lot of the mind games if a Cylon gets hit.


I agree with you that the randomness of executions by luck of the draw - that red doom trauma token, or what it's called - is too arbitrary and will definitely frustrate players. It can only work with a group that has the thematic background knowledge and can thus interpret the execution in the context of the series (our group is mostly not familiar with the series), at best.

I wonder, would it break the game if those "You are dead!" trauma tokens would be altered in such a way that they don't trigger executions, but instead count towards the more disadvantageous of the two types of trauma, depending on wether the player is a Cylon or human, when the IN phase kicks in?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Nebula gives you a reason to get people out of the Brig - without the risk of Disaster executing someone, having 1-2 players in the Brig is only a problem when it lets Cylons take over the ship.

On the other hand, you can almost play the game ignoring Trauma entirely - you start with 3 tokens, place 1 on your Crossroads card, and discard at least 2, so you're only at risk if you gain more Trauma either on the way, or during Crossroads. Of course, some of the allies offer fairly compelling incentives to encounter them (either to access a key location or to get a tempting effect) or to avoid encountering them (because they threaten a painful effect) but otherwise, so long as you aren't letting people sit in the Brig or Sickbay, you can pretty much play the game as usual...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
Hey!
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to revisit this specific statement you made in your original post:

Derphausen wrote:
Up until now, many choices on crisis cards were – depending on the board state – relatively straightforward for human players, i.e. choosing the, perceived by the other players, worse option marked that player as a traitor, and it also helped the hidden Cylons redirect accusations towards that “traitor”. Personal goals seem to obfuscate that perceived dividing line between the “right” choice and the “bad” choice.


For at least the first half of the game, players should feel relatively comfortable making choices that may be believed to be the worst choice of the two. THIS IS THE ENTIRE REASON why there is a split in loyalty card distribution: to allow players to intentionally make suboptimal decisions under the guise of not knowing what team they are on.

The best example is the Base Game's President Chooses Crises (10 in 70) force the President to choose between Food and Skill Cards. In my opinion, as the President player it is almost ALWAYS best to lose food from the first few shortages. The reason for this is twofold:

1. Food, Morale and Skill card loss is BOTH the President player's Cylon win condition AND the win condition that a human President can best avoid.

2. Intentionally making yourself a little bit more vulnerable to skill card loss, Food and/or morale loss makes the game easier for you to win should you turn Cylon. If you remain human, the Presidency grants you the ability to take "procedural" shortcuts when it comes to containing Cylon players. E.g. An Arrest Order essentially saves a lot of extremely valuable human cards; the Leadership/Tactics cards needed to contain the Cylon. Additionally, Food and Morale is also recoverable from the Quorum deck.

However, there is a caveat, losing food early forces you to lose cards late game. Which, if the Presidency is stripped from you, will no longer be your burden to bear. But, a political leaders greatest strength is shoring up skill card loss through Investigative Committees and their other core strengths.

The Admiral should make the same considerations when it comes to destinations. Eat Fuel early so that a -1 Fuel Rescue Mission swings the game towards a Fuel loss condition.

The key though, in all of this, is that you have to use reliable and consistent Crisis deck configurations. This analysis only applies if you can predict how the game will play out. It's the reason why the obvious "pro-human" choice is always apparent in setups with larger "crisis" and "destination" decks: it's because it's impossible to predict the trend in which resources are lost.

They can only make those decisions though when the crisis and destination decks behave predictably however. Which is why all of these considerations work in the base game only.

What CREATES mindgames is when players make the following decision: "I believe, as Admiral/President, I can afford to lose a little more Fuel/Food, because I control the resource." This might convince the Admiral/President's subordinates that it's time to take control of the resource themselves...which is why the Admin check is tied to the dominant skill cards of political leaders and why the AQ check is tied to the dominant skill cards of military leaders.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rmsgrey wrote:
The Nebula gives you a reason to get people out of the Brig - without the risk of Disaster executing someone, having 1-2 players in the Brig is only a problem when it lets Cylons take over the ship.

On the other hand, you can almost play the game ignoring Trauma entirely - you start with 3 tokens, place 1 on your Crossroads card, and discard at least 2, so you're only at risk if you gain more Trauma either on the way, or during Crossroads. Of course, some of the allies offer fairly compelling incentives to encounter them (either to access a key location or to get a tempting effect) or to avoid encountering them (because they threaten a painful effect) but otherwise, so long as you aren't letting people sit in the Brig or Sickbay, you can pretty much play the game as usual...


^^ This
Even without actually being in the Brig, the threat of getting Brigged or going to Sickbay has more dire consequences now, and that has be used as a guise to avoid those effects.


Always did want to try IN with Mutineer (from Daybreak), as you can't just let the Mutr. sit in the Brig collecting Mutiny.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.