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ackmondual
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When your groups decide on games to play:
A) you can get the games you'd like to play in, but have no ability to veto nor decline the games others want to play

B) You can't get in the games you'd like to play, but you have the ability to decline and veto games you'd rather not play



For A, great if you buy new games every now and then, and/or like to get repeat plays of your own games or those owned by others, but then you're stuck with having to sit through games you're not so wild about.

For B, you're sort of at the mercy of where your groups go from day to day, but declining games you don't like means you're not obligated to suffer through games you don't like, have the option to take off earlier, or otherwise just do anything else


Poll: When picking games, Ability to pick games, or ability to veto them
Poll originally appeared here...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1681103/poll-which-your...

1. Which would you prefer, if you had to choose one or the other?
A - get games you'd like, but can't decline
B - can NOT get in the games you'd like, but CAN decline
2. Which situation ends up being the case?
A - get games you'd like, but can't decline
B - can NOT get in the games you'd like, but CAN decline
      127 answers
Poll created by ackmondual
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Chris Graves
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...or C) everybody suggest games, then everybody says all those games would be fun to play, then you are back at square one because we can't decide.
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Kirk
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In my experience, with our friends, picking the games to play or not play is a very pleasurable and shared experience!

It certainly helps that our game nights at our house usually have 3 or 4 tables going with different games to choose from but even so, most all of us are very flexible and enjoy most games and the company.
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Iori Yagami
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You can ALWAYS decline, unless it's mafia that's making you an offer... now, everyone, close you eyes, it is... NIGHT!
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Yaron Davidson
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I can't imagine meeting with people to play games, and then trying to make someone play a game they say they don't want to play. It would seem extremely inconsiderate and stupid and pointless to try and do that to someone else, and I certainly wouldn't stand anyone trying to do that with me (I mean, I absolutely can and would just go away and do something else with my time if the people I'm meeting think it's a good idea to make me do stuff I don't want to do, we're not meeting to play games in order to suffer).
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Eric Clason
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I would say that my game groups usually come to a consensus on what game to play, which is more B'ish. But I have heard of groups where they rotate who picks the game to play, which is more A'ish.
 
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Chris Blackford
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voodoochyl wrote:
...or C) everybody suggest games, then everybody says all those games would be fun to play, then you are back at square one because we can't decide.


This tends to be my situation as well. Or, we each take turns calling out games we'd like to play and try to reach a mutual decision. It mostly works. Mostly.
 
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Michael J
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We use a pick system to determine what gets played. Basically, EVERYBODY gets to pick equally, no questions asked. No trying to convince others your favorite game from 2002 pick is worth playing. No watching your picks get rejected over and over. It's the most fair system I've seen, and it has eliminated hurt feelings and saved a lot of wasted time.
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Kathleen Nugent
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saturnkk wrote:
In my experience, with our friends, picking the games to play or not play is a very pleasurable and shared experience!

It certainly helps that our game nights at our house usually have 3 or 4 tables going with different games to choose from but even so, most all of us are very flexible and enjoy most games and the company.


That's how it is for me too. Once a month we play at a couple's house. The company is very pleasant, and it's easy to choose from among the three or so games being played.
 
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Yaron Davidson
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mjacobsca wrote:
... EVERYBODY gets to pick equally, no questions asked. No trying to convince others ...No watching your picks get rejected over and over. It's the most fair system I've seen, and it has eliminated hurt feelings and saved a lot of wasted time.


(taking a quick look at your game ratings)

So basically you're saying that if someone in your group would repeatedly decide to pick Renown and The Red Dragon Inn:

1. You'd play them without complaining. And keep playing them without complaining as long as they keep getting picked.
2. After letting the person making the picks know that you really don't want to play those games, you'd stop making a fuss about them again, and just play.
3. You think a system in which someone can keep choosing that you'd play them, without you having a say in the matter, is the most fair you've seen, more fair than a system in which you'd had a veto or one which required people not to pick games that the other players strongly dislike.
4. You similarly won't have any hurt feeling that this other player keeps choosing a game you don't like, because no hurt feelings.
5. You don't consider the time you'd spend playing these games, over and over, to be wasted time, because the hours of playing them are less of a waste than a few minutes taken to explain why you veto them.

Really?
Or is maybe the system only working, and feels fair, because in practice it also has unofficial implicit rules of not actually picking games the other players really don't like to play?
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Michael J
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yarondav wrote:
mjacobsca wrote:
... EVERYBODY gets to pick equally, no questions asked. No trying to convince others ...No watching your picks get rejected over and over. It's the most fair system I've seen, and it has eliminated hurt feelings and saved a lot of wasted time.


(taking a quick look at your game ratings)

So basically you're saying that if someone in your group would repeatedly decide to pick Renown and The Red Dragon Inn:

1. You'd play them without complaining. And keep playing them without complaining as long as they keep getting picked.
2. After letting the person making the picks know that you really don't want to play those games, you'd stop making a fuss about them again, and just play.
3. You think a system in which someone can keep choosing that you'd play them, without you having a say in the matter, is the most fair you've seen, more fair than a system in which you'd had a veto or one which required people not to pick games that the other players strongly dislike.
4. You similarly won't have any hurt feeling that this other player keeps choosing a game you don't like, because no hurt feelings.
5. You don't consider the time you'd spend playing these games, over and over, to be wasted time, because the hours of playing them are less of a waste than a few minutes taken to explain why you veto them.

Really?
Or is maybe the system only working, and feels fair, because in practice it also has unofficial implicit rules of not actually picking games the other players really don't like to play?


We HAVE played Renown. We all disliked it. But NO ONE complained about playing it. It was my pick, and so I picked it. My points. My pick. In fact, we all pick games that some members of our group dislike; we support each other's picks, even if we don't like them, so that everybody gets to enjoy the hobby the way they want to. Of course, when a game is universally hated by others, it hurts my enjoyment of the game as well, so not likely to pick it again; but my choice to not pick it has nothing to do with whether others liked the game, it has to do with whether "I" want to waste points on a bad experience for ME. They ARE my points, after all, and I want them to go well. With that said, one of our group members has a "must play everything twice before giving up on it" rule, and so no matter what he picks, we support it until he no longer wants to pick any more. We might groan. We might give him a hard time. But we only joke when we do this, as our group supports the "everybody gets to pick what they want" attitude very strongly. Sure, if someone picked Renown EVERY week, we'd be annoyed. But just like gaming with cheaters, if someone's an ahole and just wants to tank the fun just to be a jerk, they wouldn't be invited back. Our group pick system works not because of implicit rules, but because our group has nice people, not aholes.
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Chris Wilczewski
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mjacobsca wrote:

We HAVE played Renown. We all disliked it. But NO ONE complained about playing it. It was my pick, and so I picked it. My points. My pick. In fact, we all pick games that some members of our group dislike; we support each other's picks, even if we don't like them, so that everybody gets to enjoy the hobby the way they want to. Of course, when a game is universally hated by others, it hurts my enjoyment of the game as well, so not likely to pick it again; but my choice to not pick it has nothing to do with whether others liked the game, it has to do with whether "I" want to waste points on a bad experience for ME. They ARE my points, after all, and I want them to go well. With that said, one of our group members has a "must play everything twice before giving up on it" rule, and so no matter what he picks, we support it until he no longer wants to pick any more. We might groan. We might give him a hard time. But we only joke when we do this, as our group supports the "everybody gets to pick what they want" attitude very strongly. Sure, if someone picked Renown EVERY week, we'd be annoyed. But just like gaming with cheaters, if someone's an ahole and just wants to tank the fun just to be a jerk, they wouldn't be invited back. Our group pick system works not because of implicit rules, but because our group has nice people, not aholes.


I can also say that this did actually happen. Mike and I are in the same group. Pandemic Legacy went on for longer than it probably should have for us. By the time we got to August, no one was really looking forward to repeat playing it. Each time it was picked, there wasn't a lot of excitement about playing it, but points are points and we trudged onward.

We do joke around when someone picks one of the games we don't enjoy, but it's in good humor because we know that they'll get into the spirit when we pick a game they're not excited about. Treat others as we wish to be treated and all that.

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ackmondual
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alenen wrote:
I can also say that this did actually happen. Mike and I are in the same group. Pandemic Legacy went on for longer than it probably should have for us. By the time we got to August, no one was really looking forward to repeat playing it. Each time it was picked, there wasn't a lot of excitement about playing it, but points are points and we trudged onward.

I doubt I'll ever be able to play Pandemic Legacy. As such, I'm curious to hear if you can quantify about going on for longer than expected. Is it concerning the number of sessions? Total game play time? Other activities within the game?
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howl hollow howl
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My old group was very much B, and my new group is very much A. I always thought that I'd enjoy A more, and I do; while I do end up playing games frequently that I don't care for at all, knowing that they are favorites of the others makes me enjoy them much more than if it were just some consensus pick we settled on.
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Michael J
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ackmondual wrote:
alenen wrote:
I can also say that this did actually happen. Mike and I are in the same group. Pandemic Legacy went on for longer than it probably should have for us. By the time we got to August, no one was really looking forward to repeat playing it. Each time it was picked, there wasn't a lot of excitement about playing it, but points are points and we trudged onward.

I doubt I'll ever be able to play Pandemic Legacy. As such, I'm curious to hear if you can quantify about going on for longer than expected. Is it concerning the number of sessions? Total game play time? Other activities within the game?


I think it was just the fact that we had to play it 15+ times in a short period. It was a fun game overall, but even with little rule tweaks, it was just a lot of the same game. When the Hotness is staring down your back, it's hard to commit to one game for so many plays.
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Ian Noble
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mjacobsca wrote:
Our group pick system works not because of implicit rules, but because our group has nice people, not aholes.


Well said.
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Pete
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You guys let the other players choose games. How cute.

Pete (chooses what games his group will play each week)
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Andrew Turpin
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plezercruz wrote:
You guys let the other players choose games. How cute.

Pete (chooses what games his group will play each week)


I choose games for everyone as well. In 2 of my groups (hosted at different public libraries) and I even ask for suggestions. They never make any! I prompt them for suggestions and they apparantly know a good deal when they see it. Spend no money on games, get spoon fed new games every other week and leave it to me to decide if it should be a repeat.

I find the experience where all members of the group are striving to be the one to choose the game that gets played enviable.

I also have a third group which is back and forth between one other person and myself to choose. In this group there are only two of us wanting to introduce something. There is no system and we choose between his shelf of games and the 3-4 I bring over.

I have done voting in the past as well, write down your top 5 in order out of a pool of suggestions and play the most requested. I prefer this method, it's usually about 5 minutes to conduct the vote but it seemed worth it to me. It can be a good way to get people's opinion on a game so I can stop wasting time suggesting it if it's unpopular.

Do the point system people ever find that there are people who suck at teaching or for whatever reason give their points away? That's what would happen in my groups I believe.
 
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Chris Wilczewski
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ackmondual wrote:

I doubt I'll ever be able to play Pandemic Legacy. As such, I'm curious to hear if you can quantify about going on for longer than expected. Is it concerning the number of sessions? Total game play time? Other activities within the game?


I think the problem was that in order to preserve the narrative story line "what happened last play 6 months ago?" we played it in rapid succession. We have a lot of games between the 4/5 of us, so it's rare to play a game twice in a row, let alone 15-18 times in a short span. The game itself was fine.

NFLD wrote:

Do the point system people ever find that there are people who suck at teaching or for whatever reason give their points away? That's what would happen in my groups I believe.


There are definitely a range of teaching abilities within the group, but everyone does their best and we all know that teaching can be hard. There IS an expectation that if you pick a game, you need to mostly know the rules and be ready to teach it. Also, we include instruction time in the calculation of how many points it costs to pick, so knowing the rules well is rewarded.

As for giving away points, it's worth pointing out that our system doesn't really allow anyone to give away points, and if it's your turn to pick, there's no reason to NOT pick. You also can't save points because they decay over time. The system was originally designed as a WoW loot system, so it had to be pretty solid to prevent gaming.
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Yaron Davidson
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Thanks for taking the time to respond.

mjacobsca wrote:
We HAVE played Renown. We all disliked it. But NO ONE complained about playing it. It was my pick, and so I picked it. My points. My pick.

Obviously I wasn't referring to anyone having problems with a game in retrospect. If you don't know in advance that you hate the game then of course someone choosing to play it isn't an issue.

The problem starts when you already know you hate the game, and then someone picks it for play. Not because they want to make you suffer, but because they want to play it themselves and your opinion doesn't count. You know, the attitude in:
mjacobsca wrote:
but my choice to not pick it has nothing to do with whether others liked the game, it has to do with whether "I" want to waste points on a bad experience for ME. They ARE my points, after all, and I want them to go well.

It seems pretty selfish. It also means that if the person who picks the game doesn't personally suffer from another player not having fun, then there's no reason for them not to keep picking a game. Because, again, you keep describing the only downside of playing games that other players hate as that it may also hurt your own experience.
mjacobsca wrote:
Of course, when a game is universally hated by others, it hurts my enjoyment of the game as well, so not likely to pick it again;


I get the system, but I have a hard time how you can claim that someone who says "I enjoy playing this game, and for this game I still enjoy playing it even with other players who really don't, so we'll play it even though you hate it and don't enjoy the play at all" doesn't exhibit any ahole traits in that.

If I know someone would hate a game, and choose to play it with them because I do like the game and want to play it, how am I not an ahole?

Though of course if
mjacobsca wrote:
But just like gaming with cheaters, if someone's an ahole and just wants to tank the fun just to be a jerk, they wouldn't be invited back. Our group pick system works not because of implicit rules, but because our group has nice people, not aholes.

means that anyone who picks a game others hate is an ahole, and you don't play with aholes, this does explicitly create an implicit rule of not picking games other people hate...

mjacobsca wrote:
In fact, we all pick games that some members of our group dislike; we support each other's picks, even if we don't like them, so that everybody gets to enjoy the hobby the way they want to.

I'm puzzled as to how making people play a game they dislike is letting them enjoy the hobby the way they want to. Most people I know have some preferences on games, some of them strong preferences, and so for all of those there are games they really don't enjoy playing and have no desire or interest to play. A system in which they'll need to spend their time playing these games is about as far from enjoying the hobby the way they want to as I can imagine.
 
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Des T.
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I have two groups that play on a monthly base, and I'm usually the one who suggests new games. Since we mostly run campaign-type co-ops, that means each game I suggest will be played for a year or so.

I tailor my suggestions to the abilities and taste of the groups. Pandemic Legacy worked for both, but moving forward, the hardcore group will be tackling Seafall, while the casual group will be going after Mechs and Minions or Mice and Mystics. Both groups also meet up twice a year for a huge Arkham Horror session.

Luckily, the groups trust my judgement and the hardcore group does their own research in to the games I suggest before agreeing.
 
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mortego

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plezercruz wrote:
You guys let the other players choose games. How cute.

Pete (chooses what games his group will play each week)


Pretty much the same here but I do consider my group, I haven't had any complaints except for when I mention Talisman......ugh.
 
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Chris Wilczewski
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yarondav wrote:

I'm puzzled as to how making people play a game they dislike is letting them enjoy the hobby the way they want to. Most people I know have some preferences on games, some of them strong preferences, and so for all of those there are games they really don't enjoy playing and have no desire or interest to play. A system in which they'll need to spend their time playing these games is about as far from enjoying the hobby the way they want to as I can imagine.

I can understand your concern in a world where the only reason I get together with friends to play games is to play the games themselves. If all I care about is the mechanical experience of which game I play, then you're right, the system might not work as well (tho I believe it still would).

In a group where you get together to spend good time with friends, and also play games, sometimes playing a game you're not super excited about because you know it gives the other people at the table a chance to play a game they love isn't a bad trade-off.

A system in which I sometimes spend my time playing games that other people enjoy and also know that they will do the same for me is as ideal a version of the hobby I can imagine
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Yaron Davidson
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alenen wrote:
In a group where you get together to spend good time with friends, and also play games, sometimes playing a game you're not super excited about because you know it gives the other people at the table a chance to play a game they love isn't a bad trade-off.

A system in which I sometimes spend my time playing games that other people enjoy and also know that they will do the same for me is as ideal a version of the hobby I can imagine

Compared to the alternative of not playing, sure, I'd agree it's not at all a bad trade-off.

But is that really the case?
Because it really should be possible (with the amount of available games now even very easy) to find games that everyone on the table would enjoy. And compared to this (only play games that everyone playing enjoys), the option that includes playing games that some people don't enjoy seems like a bad trade-off, and far from ideal.

If I had the option of playing in a group where I know whatever we play I would enjoy and everyone else playing would enjoy, compared to a group where I know some games I won't enjoy and some games other people who play with me won't enjoy... I'm very very very certain that I'd prefer to play in the first.

Of course when you play with friends if someone presents a case for a game that you know they really really really want to play very much and never gets to, it's fine for them to ask the other less enamored players if they'd still be willing to give it a go. But to demand this of other players instead of politely asking and being fully accepting of a no? And to have them demand such of you? As an ideal situation??

"Friends would agree to play with friends things they don't like if the friend really wants to" is usually true, but so is "friends won't ask friends to play with them things that they know the friends really don't like". This caring about other people's preferences because they're your friends... should go both ways.
 
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Ian Noble
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You're putting way too much time thinking about this, imo. We got tired of sending 50 emails a week trying to convince everyone else to play some new kickstarter game. That's it. This works but is not perfect. But it's best option for our group.
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