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Subject: Who here dislikes "heavy" games? rss

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Donald M.
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Sweet Grass
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Who here does NOT like playing games that are overly complicated?

Before anyone starts to flame me, This post is not against those who love the heavies, but rather my own opinion based on what makes me excited and happy while playing a game.

In other words, "heavy" games with a complexity rating typically of over 3.25 or so. I also dislike "dry" games.

I have played some heavies and they were ok though even with a high rating of 3.40 or more. Those games had are lot of rules and exceptions but the game was intuitive which mitigated the learning curve. It usually takes me 2 or 3 plays to fully appreciate the many paths to victory and interactions so in a way I like these type of heavy games.

Mostly, I tend to like games with easy to learn rules, yet have a gamer's depth to them. There's tons of them like Splendor, TTR, Carcassonne, Lost Cities Board Game, Spheres of Influence etc.

What are the games you like that can get the most people to play and enjoy without getting bogged down in rules yet are satisfying and have enough depth?
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Ryan Morris-Jeter

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I have been thinking a lot about this lately. I think the important number would be a ratio. I certainly do not judge a game based on its percieved complexity, but rather its return on my time investment. For instance, I love love the Gallerist. It has a great length/complexity to overall experience ratio. By the time the game ends, I have really created something remarkable. It was certainly worth my time. On the other hand, I love a game like Arboretum or Tiny Epic Western. Simple rules/play, fairly quick to play but with a nice bit of depth. I don't consider Splendor to be a deep game but it has a great ratio in my mind. I think it would be impossible to create a game that was as simple as splendor but as deep as Gallerist. Thats why those games give you drastically different experiences. There should be a measurable way to define this.
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Jason
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One of the best: Concordia The rules are one paragraph long (excluding card descriptions). The cards are basically self-explanatory. Easy to teach, fun to play, and rewards repeated play with the same group as each player grows with the game together. Fantastic game.
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Ryan Morris-Jeter

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Also New York 1901 in my mind has an AWESOME ratio. As far as dryness etc, that is just a matter of personal opinion. A dry game for me has to have some great things going mechanically. And a simple mechanical game has to has some great theme/ story going for it. Like Mansions of Madness which is great. I like all types of games.
 
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Colin
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Check out this recent post over in the recommendations area:Game that are simple to explain but have lots of depth.

Have you looked into abstract games or Knizia games? I just recently obtained Samurai and this had a ton of strategy and tactics for such a simple game.

For those of us who like heavy games, there's a place for us here on BGG. Go check out the Heavy Cardboard Guild
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Ryan Morris-Jeter

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Now that im thinking about it, I am one of the few people who didn't love Terraforming Mars. I felt thematically it was neat, but the game would have been AMAZING if it took 1 hour and had fewer cards. There were a ton of cards that were all thematically different, however they were all variations of the same things. Therefore to me the ratio was off. Obviously my opinion but doesn't seem to be shared by many.
 
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David McMullen
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Me!

I have no intention of flaming you. :D

Although I do love Eldritch Horror and that is a "Heavy". (not dry at all)

If you don't like heavies, steer clear of Twilight Imperium! I've never played it but I'm still not convinced that I can still have fun after 3.5 hours.

I feel like you would enjoy Ticket to Ride. Am I right?

A personal favorite is LCR. It has plenty of depth without too many rules.

 
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10/₆
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I cannot endorse this thread.
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Daniel Kearns
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I'm with you. I tend to like lighter simpler games.
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Josh Bodah
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A weight of 3.25 is pretty much my sweet spot. I'd argue that's more medium-heavy. We're talking Agricola weight which I've taught my mom

I'd say anything over a 3.75 is pushing it though. I do like Mage Knight, but that was a beast to learn. The only other heavy game I'm really looking forward to is Fields of Fire.
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Marina SC
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I don't mind some heaviness, but I dislike complexity. On BGG they're measured on the same scale and so are conflated, but I don't think the two are necessarily related.
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Chris Mcpherson
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I love some heavier games but it's def harder to get them to the table often so it's ideal to have games that are shorter but still offer those tough decisions.

Glen More is quite possibly my favourite game for this exact reason.
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Julien K
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I would not play a lengthy/heavy game that I don't know anything about. Mostly because I don't want to risk sitting for hours for something I don't enjoy.

Oh, sure, I *may* enjoy it (thoug I need a great game to warant hours of play); but let me research about it first.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Quote:
Who here dislikes "heavy" games?

Who here does NOT like playing games that are overly complicated?
These aren't necessarily the same question.

Some games aren't that complicated, but are still heavy. Go for example has a handful of rules that are fairly easy to learn, yet very deep play emerges from that relatively simple ruleset.

Alternatively, many war games are much more complicated, with huge rule books with tons of special cases and exceptions and things you have to know in particular situations, etc.

Complicated doesn't even necessarily mean difficult. Assembling a Lego set from an instruction booklet could be complicated involving many many steps and lots of pieces... yet might be very easy to do and not terribly challenging from a mental standpoint. No particular step would necessarily be challenging or difficult, merely the sheer number of steps would cause it to be complicated.
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Gláucio Reis
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I tend to prefer medium-weight games that have strategic depth, like most big-box games from Kramer or Knizia. Heavy games are not necessarily deeper. Some designers add lots of stuff to give players an illusion of depth, but, in most cases, the game is just more complex. I do enjoy a few games that are a bit heavier or more complex, like Asgard, Dungeon Petz and Khronos, but these are exceptions.
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Chris SC

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If I'm tired or with no gamers I prefer some 1.5 to 2.25 fare. If I'm gaming 2.25 to 3 is my preferred area.

As you note, heavier games aren't bad, I just find light med games more relaxing and enjoyable.
 
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John Rogers
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Yakima
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Thunkd wrote:
Quote:
Who here dislikes "heavy" games?

Who here does NOT like playing games that are overly complicated?
These aren't necessarily the same question.

Some games aren't that complicated, but are still heavy. Go for example has a handful of rules that are fairly easy to learn, yet very deep play emerges from that relatively simple ruleset.

Alternatively, many war games are much more complicated, with huge rule books with tons of special cases and exceptions and things you have to know in particular situations, etc.

Complicated doesn't even necessarily mean difficult. Assembling a Lego set from an instruction booklet could be complicated involving many many steps and lots of pieces... yet might be very easy to do and not terribly challenging from a mental standpoint. No particular step would necessarily be challenging or difficult, merely the sheer number of steps would cause it to be complicated.


thumbsup

Complexity, heavy, and depth are all three very distinct variables. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't.
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John Rogers
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Oiler1 wrote:
Mostly, I tend to like games with easy to learn rules, yet have a gamer's depth to them. There's tons of them like Splendor, TTR, Carcassonne, Lost Cities Board Game, Spheres of Influence etc.

What are the games you like that can get the most people to play and enjoy without getting bogged down in rules yet are satisfying and have enough depth?


I would not classify any of the aforementioned games as deep, i.e. having emergent, meaningful decisions, with butterfly-effect ramifications across the game state. They are light but the optimal choices are quite easy to spot.

Some examples I would offer as deep yet not complex are Chicago Express, Container, Neue Heimat, and only the slightly more complex The Great Zimbabwe. I've gotten several non-gamers to try all of these primarily for their simple rules sets. In fact, I'd argue some may be as simple or even more so rules-wise than the ones you suggested at the outset.
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Leo Chell
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I don't dislike them but there are less and less times I'm in a mindset to put the effort in.
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Brandon
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PowerOfPinesol5 wrote:

A personal favorite is LCR. It has plenty of depth without too many rules.


Is this a joke? The game has literally no decisions. That's not to say you can't enjoy it; whatever brings you happiness is great. But depth it has not.
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Craig Fox
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I also dislike heavy games, but I'm quite strong.
 
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Ian Williams
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Based on my collection, I seem to like things around a 2.7.

Generally, the more I enjoy the theme, the heavier I can go. Trickerion: Legends of Illusion has a 4.0, but I love it because I feel involved in the theme. Madeira feels too heavy for me, largely because I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing, and there's a million ways to do it. I can play it, but my heart isn't in it as much.

I'm kinda surprised. Thought I'd be into heavier stuff.
 
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Joe H
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Jeetra84 wrote:
Also New York 1901 in my mind has an AWESOME ratio.


Yes! I love the moment about 1/3 into a game of New York 1901 when experienced gamers who are new to the game open their eyes up wide and say "ohhh"

That said I play all sorts of games and game weights though I tend to live in the 2.5-3 area. I played Great Western Trail on Wednesday which is a 3.75 and enjoyed it, partly due to engaging theme, partly due to quick turns and partly due to partly due to the fact that there were no mechanics that puzzled me (and, admittedly partly due to the fact that I won, but I felt this even when I thought I was behind)

For me with heavier games, I prefer less downtime and if I could make the multiple play investment in learning it and becoming familiar with the game's mechanisms and how they interact. I'm less likely to want to play a heavier game if I think it's a one off.
 
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Derry Salewski
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jakobcreutzfeldt wrote:
PowerOfPinesol5 wrote:

A personal favorite is LCR. It has plenty of depth without too many rules.


Is this a joke? The game has literally no decisions. That's not to say you can't enjoy it; whatever brings you happiness is great. But depth it has not.


What?! I don't think you're playing it right. There's always a few pretty good decision points each game!
 
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William Korner
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Tomah
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I like heavy games, and middle weight games, and light games. I like long, medium and short length games. I like Euros and Ameritrash games. I like card games and video games also. If me and game group are having fun playing a game that is what matters most.
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