$10.00
Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Jenseits von Theben» Forums » Rules

Subject: Excavations and new year rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Akke Monasso
Netherlands
Aalten
Achterhoek
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
When a player performs an excavation that passes beyond the end of the year, does he get back his digging license for that site when his turn is ends? (only counting the first two year of course)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, the licenses are renewed as soon as you enter the new year - which could be while you are digging in Egypt (they will send you a telegram!)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jens Hoppe
Denmark
Frederiksberg
flag msg tools
What are you, like 80?
badge
It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
mbmbmbmbmb
We have been playing it the opposite way (dig permissions end up used for the new year as well) based on an interpretation of the timing described in the rules:

- The time marker is moved forward when the length of the dig is announced (or at least before "AFTER the dig").
- If the time marker crosses the new year, dig permissions are turned 'available' side up immediately.
- The dig permission being used is turned 'used' side up "AFTER the dig".

I realize this may easily be an incorrect interpretation, but I am surprised that a situation as common as this (one I was wondering about after reading the rules, before I had even played the game) isn't covered explicitly in the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jens Hoppe
Denmark
Frederiksberg
flag msg tools
What are you, like 80?
badge
It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
mbmbmbmbmb
Here are a few quotes from the English rules at the Queen website to back up the above claims.

Quote:
Using the time wheel – the number of tokens to draw ...

The player moves his time marker along the time track the number of spaces equal to the number of weeks he chose to dig.


Quote:
When a player's time marker crosses space 52, a new year begins for that player. That player immediately turns all his excavation permissions to the valid side, allowing him to once again execute excavations at those sites.


Quote:
Ending the excavation
The player's excavation is complete. He turns over the excavation permission he used to display the side with an “X”.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich P
United Kingdom
Sheffield
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
I didn't know what to do with my UberBadge, so I left it as a GeekBadge.
badge
Planning...
mbmbmbmbmb
That's a harsh interpretation of the rules! We prefer to play more leniently, but I can see arguments either way. The fake permit cards don't get used much in our games; I can see them being more useful under your ruling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernd Dietrich
Germany
Troisdorf
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Akke wrote:
When a player performs an excavation that passes beyond the end of the year, does he get back his digging license for that site when his turn is ends? (only counting the first two year of course)


Hi Akke,
if you start an 8 week excavation, let's say in week 51, you will get back your resp. digging license at the end of your turn, because of entering the new year.

All the things you do in your turn (digging, getting items, getting knowledge, doing an exhibition, and so on) are refering to the week your "timemarker" is placed on at the beginning of your turn.

Back to my sample, you begin your excavation in week 51 lost your license and will ghet it back at the end of your turn after crossing the new year eve.
Otherwise you would loose a whole year for digging! That was not the intention.

Hope that helps and all the best from germany
Bernd
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Akke Monasso
Netherlands
Aalten
Achterhoek
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
I agree that both interpretations are possible, we played it like Jens the first game, and it worked nicely. It didn't seem harsh at all. In a 3-player game it adds a sense of urgency to your first 3/4 year.
It also makes sense thematically. A permit is given for a year, not for a year plus some more months because you couldn't be bothered to start in time.

[After preview]

Thanks for the clarification Bernd, we will try to play it the intended way also.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jens Hoppe
Denmark
Frederiksberg
flag msg tools
What are you, like 80?
badge
It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, another setback for harsh interpretations!

Thanks for the clarification, Bernd.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jens_hoppe wrote:
I am surprised that a situation as common as this (one I was wondering about after reading the rules, before I had even played the game) isn't covered explicitly in the rules.


Well it is. Sort of.

You turn over the Excavation License after you have finished digging - but you receive a new License AT THE END OF THE TURN in which you entered the new year (page 7, bottom).



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Zurfluh
United States
Cranbury
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is the Official Word from Peter Prinz himself (from spielbox.de)


Die Grabungserlaubnis wird zwar erst nach der Grabung umgedreht, aber dies ist noch Teil des Spielzuges des betreffenden Spielers. Der Jahreswechsel wird erst nach dem Spielzug des Spielers relevant, d.h. die Grabungserlaubnisse werden erst nach dem Spielzug wieder umgedreht!
So gesehen ist zweinmal Graben hintereinander (Jehredsende/Jahresbeginn) durchaus möglich (und auch sinnvoll, da man sich Reisezeit sparen kann)!


The excavation license is turned over after the excavation, and this is part of the player's turn.
The year change becomes relevant after the player's turn is over, which means that the excavation licenses are flipped again at that point.
Because of this, you can dig two times in a row (Year's end, and again at the beginning of the new year), which is quite useful, since you save a bunch of traveling time.




-Rob

Darn it, where is that boat...is it July yet? Still waiting for the US release


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon W
United States
Aurora
CO
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Huh. We played this wrong our first game, and I thought the rules (the citations Jens quoted above) were pretty clear. The idea that it's December 30, 1901, you travel for a month and spend another two months digging, but use your 1901 permit, just doesn't make sense to me. I was of a mind that the permits were answering the question: "were you at this site during calendar year X?".

Not that it has to make sense thematically, but I think this loose interpretation also makes it weaker mechanically, as you lose some enjoyable planning and tension making things fit into a single calendar year (as in 1903, where you have to get it all done before the buzzer). I'll be sticking with my unknowing house rule, as it's easier to defend on all counts.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
waddball wrote:
Huh. We played this wrong our first game, and I thought the rules (the citations Jens quoted above) were pretty clear. The idea that it's December 30, 1901, you travel for a month and spend another two months digging, but use your 1901 permit, just doesn't make sense to me. I was of a mind that the permits were answering the question: "were you at this site during calendar year X?".

Not that it has to make sense thematically, but I think this loose interpretation also makes it weaker mechanically, as you lose some enjoyable planning and tension making things fit into a single calendar year (as in 1903, where you have to get it all done before the buzzer). I'll be sticking with my unknowing house rule, as it's easier to defend on all counts.


Why do you assume that your permit from 1901 can only be used for digging during 1901? It makes perfectly sense that, once obtained, you may continue digging for as long as you like. But once you leave the site, you will need a new license to begin digging again.

If the game allowed it you could keep digging for 10 years - as long as you kept digging...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon W
United States
Aurora
CO
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Great Dane wrote:
Why do you assume that your permit from 1901 can only be used for digging during 1901? It makes perfectly sense that, once obtained, you may continue digging for as long as you like. But once you leave the site, you will need a new license to begin digging again.

It doesn't make perfect sense to me. If you finish in March 1902 and go to get a new license, it just seems odd that you would be issued a 1902 permit. You've already been digging in 1902! You should have had a 1902 permit to begin with, you swine, now it's off to the local jail with you. Unless, perhaps, you wish to offer me something to forget this little incident ever occurred...?

I'm sure we could go back and forth forever about what "makes sense in the real world," and I have no idea how real archaeological permits work. The more restrictive sense was more intuitive for me, as I think about government bureaucrats and visa processes (not to mention fishing licenses).

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
waddball wrote:
It doesn't make perfect sense to me. If you finish in March 1902 and go to get a new license, it just seems odd that you would be issued a 1902 permit. You've already been digging in 1902!


The Government issues new permits once a year. Professor Waddball has a digging license for Egypt for one period to be used at any time within the next 3 years. He begins digging in December 1901 and continues into spring 1902. While excavating the Minister of Cultural affairs decided to grant prof. Waddball another digging license to be used once from 1902 onwards.

If Prof Waddball was really, really diplomatic or simply better at bribing, he could even end up with several digging licenses for the same area - except this isn't allowed in this game...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leif Norcott
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Great Dane wrote:
waddball wrote:
It doesn't make perfect sense to me. If you finish in March 1902 and go to get a new license, it just seems odd that you would be issued a 1902 permit. You've already been digging in 1902!


The Government issues new permits once a year.
Professor Waddball has a digging license for Egypt for one period to be used at any time within the next 3 years. He begins digging in December 1901 and continues into spring 1902. While excavating the Minister of Cultural affairs decided to grant prof. Waddball another digging license to be used once from 1902 onwards.

If Prof Waddball was really, really diplomatic or simply better at bribing, he could even end up with several digging licenses for the same area - except this isn't allowed in this game...


Are you arguing for or against your own point...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.