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Subject: Redesign - to MR fans : do I deserve it ? rss

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Karim Chakroun
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UPDATE : the full set is finished :


Download here

This is my original post :

Quote:
So here I am, I search of something to do, and I stumble upon this very tempting monster. Complete noob, back from the abyss to the hobby (check my games list and chuckle). I don't even understand what the heck I'm doing, but all those monsters, and two sided hexes with caves!. Awww. look at all those rules! And I thought Caylus was complex!

...And I can't know if I like it or not without playing, huh?
...And it's OOP so to play it I have to make one !



Yes I do like Titan chits.

I want to remake everything, except maybe the rulebook.

Since I don't know the game I'd like to work with the fans on this; are you people interested? Will you give me some advice?

my first question would be about the monster chits : The original version of the chits only have move, attack, harm and sharpness, but customized ones add to that the 2 bounties and weapon lenght. On the other hand, the chits size vary in the original, but the custom ones have a unique size. My choice for now is to keep the size difference while adding the N and F numbers, and length.

What do you think?

KC





The following pictures are not the most recent.

Characters counters


Characters Actions Chits


Monster chits


Weapons and horses:


Natives


Warning chits


Locations counters


Treasure cards


Spells cards


Setup chart


Player aid(s)


Combat Flowcharts
Character boards

 


The tiles:







Others

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Jorge Arroyo
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Looks quite nice Don't know about the rounded corners. Those would be quite difficult to cut nicely.

I'm not an expert MR player, but the one thing I'd say is, you don't seem to differentiate between armored and unarmored monsters. I think it'd be useful to have that info on the counter.

BTW, you do know you can download and print a complete set of re-designed counters, do you? They look more like the original ones, only with a lot of added info (making them excellent for beginners).

Also, to me, a redesign of MR would need to upgrade the functionality of the game (while keeping the gameplay intact) more than the looks. There have been ideas discussed in previous threads like using cards as orders, a setup card that functions as a tray to keep all the counters in their right positions, etc...

Edit: Here's a thread I started with upgrade suggestions: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/147269

And here's a link to the re-designed counters (you can also download the tiles and cards here): http://magicrealm.org/components/

Another thought: Will you design new board tiles to match the look of those counters?

-Jorge
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J
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maka wrote:
Looks quite nice Don't know about the rounded corners. Those would be quite difficult to cut nicely.


Counters could be designed as full squares, with the intent of rounding corners off later. That way if the rounding doesn't go perfectly, you'll still have ink to the edge of the counter.
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Karim Chakroun
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maka wrote:
Looks quite nice Don't know about the rounded corners. Those would be quite difficult to cut nicely.



this is a corner clipper I found, it's 6€. its limit is the thickness of the chits you can put in. as maka said I'll make them "roundable". You can it find at photo stores like : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/225483-REG/Carl_CP6A_C...

Quote:
I'm not an expert MR player, but the one thing I'd say is, you don't seem to differentiate between armored and unarmored monsters. I think it'd be useful to have that info on the counter.


That's exactly the kind of things I'll bump into, since I'm remaking the game so that I can play it
edit : updated to show the armor


Quote:
BTW, you do know you can download and print a complete set of re-designed counters, do you? They look more like the original ones, only with a lot of added info (making them excellent for beginners).


I did download the monster chits, and the grey/yellow opposition was one of the things I didn't understand

Quote:
Also, to me, a redesign of MR would need to upgrade the functionality of the game (while keeping the gameplay intact) more than the looks. There have been ideas discussed in previous threads like using cards as orders, a setup card that functions as a tray to keep all the counters in their right positions, etc...

Edit: Here's a thread I started with upgrade suggestions: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/147269

And here's a link to the re-designed counters (you can also download the tiles and cards here): http://magicrealm.org/components/


Wow! lots of things to harvest there. The improvements I will make to the game have to be easy to made with glue, cardboard and paper. I won't go into 3D right now.

Quote:
Another thought: Will you design new board tiles to match the look of those counters?


yup.

on a side note, I agree with you that the "write down your actions" business seems inelegant, I'll read the thread thoroughly and make my mind, but I have an idea of a stack of chits that are double sided with a different action on each side...

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Karim Chakroun
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Ok, now I'm trying the map chits :


Instead of the letters, maybe I should go for symbols, I'll try that later
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Roberto Ullfig
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carthaginian wrote:
Ok, now I'm trying the map chits :


Instead of the letters, maybe I should go for symbols, I'll try that later


I think the individual letters should be smaller than the text above as they are less important while playing the game.
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Roberto Ullfig
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carthaginian wrote:


I did download the monster chits, and the grey/yellow opposition was one of the things I didn't understand


Yellow is unarmored - grey is armored. I don't see in your new images where that info is displayed.
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Karim Chakroun
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robo wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
Ok, now I'm trying the map chits :


Instead of the letters, maybe I should go for symbols, I'll try that later


I think the individual letters should be smaller than the text above as they are less important while playing the game.


noted

robo wrote:
carthaginian wrote:


I did download the monster chits, and the grey/yellow opposition was one of the things I didn't understand


Yellow is unarmored - grey is armored. I don't see in your new images where that info is displayed.


the armored chit has a grey outline, unarmored doesn't
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Jorge Arroyo
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As with the monster counters, the most info you can give in the counters themselves the better. Compare the old map chits to the redesigned ones from magicrealm.org For veteran players it won't matter, but for beginners, it makes things much easier...

-Jorge
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Steve Bachman
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carthaginian wrote:
...And it's OOP so to play it I have to make one !

You should make yourself familiar with eBay. There are usually plenty of copies of the game on there. OOP does not mean that you have to make a copy.
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Mark W
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An idea I had was to color-code the monsters/natives, to match up with the sound/warning/treasure chits, as well as the monster die.

Here's what I have in mind. You roll the monster die and it's a blue 1 (each face has a different color, should leave the number on the die however). Now, all the dragons, and the "1" native group (I forget which offhand) on the setup sheet are blue and will clearly stand out. Same goes for the blues that are already on the board. Furthermore, each chit that could potentially summon a blue would have a blue colored marking - maybe a square or circle. (A chit can summon more than one color, so you can't make the entire chit one color.) You could even go a step further by placing monster icons on the chit. For example, a Flutter chit would show a flying dragon head against a blue background. It would also show a bat against purple (or whatever) background.

I think this scheme would be very neat, if done well. I imagine it being difficult to pack so many monster icons on one warning chit, but that's just an idea. Overall I just think that the colors can and should be useful visual cues. I'm personally not a fan of the white background for all monsters/natives anyway...
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Karim Chakroun
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Ward wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
...And it's OOP so to play it I have to make one !

You should make yourself familiar with eBay. There are usually plenty of copies of the game on there. OOP does not mean that you have to make a copy.


Hehe, I know. I'm just looking for a justification for taking the time to make my own
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Karim Chakroun
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maka wrote:
As with the monster counters, the most info you can give in the counters themselves the better. Compare the old map chits to the redesigned ones from magicrealm.org For veteran players it won't matter, but for beginners, it makes things much easier...

-Jorge


I missed that one! I see that they have put the monsters names and the dice number (?) on the chits. What's the point of having ""Howl"on there anyway, then? just put "3/ Goblins 6/Bats"... My feeling was that the tension between the howl and the actual monster was interesting, especially for beginners. Additionally, seasoned explorers would know what may be coming... kinda realistic, I thought...

Your thoughts?
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Mark W
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carthaginian wrote:
My choice for now is to keep the size difference while adding the N and F numbers, and length.

I like this.

Also if you could cram more info on the natives, that would be nice. For example, I'd like to know whether you hire the natives as a group or individually, and for how much gold.

I like how your pieces are looking so far!
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Sam
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NeonPeon wrote:
An idea I had was to color-code the monsters/natives, to match up with the sound/warning/treasure chits, as well as the monster die.

Here's what I have in mind. You roll the monster die and it's a blue 1 (each face has a different color, should leave the number on the die however). Now, all the dragons, and the "1" native group (I forget which offhand) on the setup sheet are blue and will clearly stand out. Same goes for the blues that are already on the board. Furthermore, each chit that could potentially summon a blue would have a blue colored marking - maybe a square or circle. (A chit can summon more than one color, so you can't make the entire chit one color.)


Fantastic idea !!!

I've made my own pieces using the new graphics (don't recall who's in particular- but they're also used in Realm Speak)... now to go back and colour them in, add the appropriate markings to the site chits, and finally colour code my dice
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Karim Chakroun
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sdafilli wrote:
NeonPeon wrote:
An idea I had was to color-code the monsters/natives, to match up with the sound/warning/treasure chits, as well as the monster die.

Here's what I have in mind. You roll the monster die and it's a blue 1 (each face has a different color, should leave the number on the die however). Now, all the dragons, and the "1" native group (I forget which offhand) on the setup sheet are blue and will clearly stand out. Same goes for the blues that are already on the board. Furthermore, each chit that could potentially summon a blue would have a blue colored marking - maybe a square or circle. (A chit can summon more than one color, so you can't make the entire chit one color.)


Fantastic idea !!!

I've made my own pieces using the new graphics (don't recall who's in particular- but they're also used in Realm Speak)... now to go back and colour them in, add the appropriate markings to the site chits, and finally colour code my dice


Maybe a stupid question, but would it suffice? take "3" for example, depending on the warning and its position, they can give you wolves, ogres, or goblins...
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Mark W
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sdafilli wrote:
Fantastic idea !!!

I've made my own pieces using the new graphics (don't recall who's in particular- but they're also used in Realm Speak)... now to go back and colour them in, add the appropriate markings to the site chits, and finally colour code my dice

Thanks! I started working on custom pieces, but haven't gotten very far yet... My wife, who has a good aesthetic sense, picked out six colors, which I could send to you if you'd like.
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Karim Chakroun
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can someone please give me the size of the hex tiles? to be precise, the size of one edge (67.5mm?), and from point to point across (135mm?) ...

got the measures from the pdf file on magicrealm.org; just want to check.

Thanks!
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Mark W
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carthaginian wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but would it suffice? take "3" for example, depending on the warning and its position, they can give you wolves, ogres, or goblins...

Not at all a stupid question... My idea was to save most of the work, not necessarily all. But, you could conceivably encode this info right on the chit. For instance, (I really wish I had the game handy right now) Patter can mean goblins (let's say they are green) in the caves, or I believe spiders (brown) in mountains.

So, one possibility is the chit shows a green cave icon and a brown mountain icon. Maybe these icons are backgrounds, on which the monster's name or icon is placed. The mountain could be very simple, like this
with a little spider silhouette on it.

Just throwing out ideas...Might force the chits to be too big and/or cluttered.
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Sebastian Kalucza
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Wow, i really like the look of the monsters. this is how the Titan chits should look. Sharp siluettes that really show what type the monster is, i like it.
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Karim Chakroun
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NeonPeon wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but would it suffice? take "3" for example, depending on the warning and its position, they can give you wolves, ogres, or goblins...

Not at all a stupid question... My idea was to save most of the work, not necessarily all. But, you could conceivably encode this info right on the chit. For instance, (I really wish I had the game handy right now) Patter can mean goblins (let's say they are green) in the caves, or I believe spiders (brown) in mountains.

So, one possibility is the chit shows a green cave icon and a brown mountain icon. Maybe these icons are backgrounds, on which the monster's name or icon is placed. The mountain could be very simple, like this
with a little spider silhouette on it.

Just throwing out ideas...Might force the chits to be too big and/or cluttered.


I see, I'll definitely look into it. I'd really like to keep the sizes of the original, so I don't know if it will work out...

what about blob dice? you know, the 6-colored ones..
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Karim Chakroun
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So, I tried your idea, and simplified it, maybe too much. Are those still functional or does the fact that the mentions 'stink', 'howl', etc. are missing breaks the system?


edit : I realize the chits that do not ask for a dice throw are confusing, I'll probably make them plain yellow, if I keep this idea. I'm not too sure I won't revert to the more dramatic expressions of the original
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Karim Chakroun
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Silverscythe wrote:
Wow, i really like the look of the monsters. this is how the Titan chits should look. Sharp siluettes that really show what type the monster is, i like it.


Thanks, I like the old Titan chits quite a lot!
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Roberto Ullfig
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carthaginian wrote:
maka wrote:
As with the monster counters, the most info you can give in the counters themselves the better. Compare the old map chits to the redesigned ones from magicrealm.org For veteran players it won't matter, but for beginners, it makes things much easier...

-Jorge


I missed that one! I see that they have put the monsters names and the dice number (?) on the chits. What's the point of having ""Howl"on there anyway, then? just put "3/ Goblins 6/Bats"... My feeling was that the tension between the howl and the actual monster was interesting, especially for beginners. Additionally, seasoned explorers would know what may be coming... kinda realistic, I thought...

Your thoughts?


I agree with you here. In general too much information will make the game look too busy (ugly) and can be distracting (like the new Hannibal game map). I think simple Warning chits are better for the reasons you mention. I would also check out Pruitt's monster expansion to make sure your design works with those as well. It probably does but you should probably check them out anyway:

http://www.thewinternet.com/magicrealm/AltMonsters.zip
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Roberto Ullfig
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carthaginian wrote:
Silverscythe wrote:
Wow, i really like the look of the monsters. this is how the Titan chits should look. Sharp siluettes that really show what type the monster is, i like it.


Thanks, I like the old Titan chits quite a lot!


Well, then make sure that each monster counter is different than every other one
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