Josiah Fiscus
United States
Pittsburgh (Monroeville)
Pennsylvania
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Crokinole with cues? Ranked 32 on BGG.
A mini tabletop billiards game? Outside the scope.
Crossbows and Catpults? It's here.
Darts? Outside the scope.
I am not arguing for any of these in particular to be included or excluded, I am just curious what makes the distinction.
Labyrinth? It's a one player dexterity/puzzle game, and it's in the database. Ditto for Solitaire.
I am not trying to bring up every single game and ask that it be defended, it just seems there is quite a bit of inconsistency.
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Josiah Fiscus
United States
Pittsburgh (Monroeville)
Pennsylvania
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jdludlow wrote:
Well, those are interesting, but basically seem to be discussing board vs. card games. What is said there is that a line is drawn between games that use a table and games that don't.
The other thing seems to indicate that a game here should be a game that you get out and play. Hence a pool table or foosball table or dartboard, which remain set up, do not fit here.
Those are all very interesting, but of the things I brought up above, it really only answers the darts vs. crossbows and catapults question. A mini tabletop billards game seems to fall WITHIN the exlusions above, and none of those shed any light on why certain one player puzzle games are included. Thank you for the links though; they did help in some regard and were an interesting read.
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David Me
United States
Earth
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Seems to be whatever the Owner wants to be here is what's here.
I prefer consistency too, but part of the problem is that it's very difficult if not impossible to define a "game", and just as difficult to define the type of games that we would want in a database like this. Do we really want EVERY game in the world here? Flipping a coin for heads or tails? Bobbing for apples? Taking turns hitting each other over the head until someone says WAAAH? Or, possibly worst of all, LCR?
I don't want just board games, but I don't want baseball & football either. My own line would probably be a littler further out, with darts & table tennis added maybe.
Even though a lot of games are stuck here in BGG purgatory, I guess the Owner, et al, do a pretty good job at deciding what's part of the main database and what's not.
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Scott A. Reed
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
Space. Space. Wannagotospace. Space. What's your favorite thing about space? mine's space.
I just wasted 100 :gg: on this.
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happyjosiah wrote: Crokinole with cues? Ranked 32 on BGG.
A mini tabletop billiards game? Outside the scope.
Merely making a smaller version of a larger game doesn't necessarily put it into the "board game" category, otherwise, where does one draw the line as to say what versions are "small enough" to qualify as board games. On the same token, I have objection to a number of the indoor bowling games on BGG, but as yet there has been nothing done to curtail their presence in the database.
happyjosiah wrote: Crossbows and Catpults? It's here.
Darts? Outside the scope.
Mere dexterity or throwing doesn't take a game outside the scope. As I go into below, darts gets kept out due to limited portability. That's also why Dart Wars is in and Darts is out.
Quote: Labyrinth? It's a one player dexterity/puzzle game, and it's in the database. Ditto for Solitaire.
I've argued for removal of both of these, but they remain in the database by fiat. Note that Patience would stay in the database regardless, as it does not have a programmed solution, but Solitaire would be out. Labyrinth has a somewhat of a stronger link to the database, because it requires some input of the player instead of just a knowledge of a programmed solution, but that link is tenuous, like the grounds for removing Superplexus. It too remains by fiat.
Here a wiki page I created a while back with a few criteria I apply to determine what is within the scope of BGG and outside the scope of BGG:
Game Criteria
1) Competitive or cooperative element
1a) If a solo game, player must make decisions to work toward victory; knowledge of a programmed set of instructions indicate the game is a "puzzle".
1b) Games generally need a point where someone (or a group of persons) has "won", or someone (or a group of persons) has "lost" (including cooperative games where the "game" wins). This generally keeps out drinking games (where the only goal is to give an excuse to drink) and parlor games that lack an ascertainable goal other than entertainment and passing time (e.g. Exquisite Corpse). This also cuts against RPGs, which tend to have players who have progressed by the end of a game, but have not necessarily "won" or "lost".
2) Must be playable on a tabletop, or failing that, within a room.
2a) Any games that require play in or movement to the outdoors are virtually automatically outside the scope of BGG.
2b) Any games which require a wide area that still comprises an indoor space are highly suspect (e.g. indoor scavenger hunts)
3) Require some sort of components to play
3a) e.g. Rock Paper Scissors would not have a place on BGG, but we have Rock Paper Scissors, Rock Paper Scissors Game, Rock Paper Scissors - The Card Game and, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Inc. which are takes on the traditional game. In contrast, Stephen Glenn's Finger Ball had the original design that involved cards, but evolved into a game that just used hand signals, and remains on BGG because of such.
3b) It's with this rule that BGG expands to cover card games as well as board games.
3c) Scale and portability are key elements when considering what is a board game and what is not. Billiards is out for being too large, but Crokinole is an acceptable size (and portable). Foosball is out, but Kineti-Go Magnetic Shuffleboard and Le Passe-Trappe are in (and are portable). Dart Wars is portable, but for practical purposes Traditional Darts is not.
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Josiah Fiscus
United States
Pittsburgh (Monroeville)
Pennsylvania
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Quote: 1b) Games generally need a point where someone (or a group of persons) has "won", or someone (or a group of persons) has "lost" (including cooperative games where the "game" wins). This generally keeps out drinking games (where the only goal is to give an excuse to drink) and parlor games that lack an ascertainable goal other than entertainment and passing time (e.g. Exquisite Corpse). This also cuts against RPGs, which tend to have players who have progressed by the end of a game, but have not necessarily "won" or "lost".
Interesting. It sort of rules out The Ungame and Telephone Pictionary, which are both in here. Not to mention many of the sexual games here that are just an excuse to have sex. Seems to me this is the least kept to rule of any of them.
Thanks for the explanation. That helps a lot!
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