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Subject: Old Entdecker with some New rules rss

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Mark Johnson
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The following rule changes allow you to incorporate some of the changed rules of the New game (or Mayfair edition) when playing with the older, original Goldseiber set. (It does not utilize the new game's waterfall discovery bonus tiles or the substantially changed scout/bonus system.)

1. Leave the spinner in the box. Instead, use a die for gold income. At the start of anyone's turn, they must roll the die if they have 3 or less gold stored. On 2-6, they receive that much gold, and everyone else receives that much PLUS ONE. (The gold displays from the older game still max out at 12.) On a roll of 1, the player who rolled the die gets to choose a value from 2-6. Again, everyone else receives that amount plus one. At game start everyone has 7 gold.

2. When starting an expedition, the player announces how much gold will be spent on tiles. Face-down tiles cost 1 gold apiece (as per normal rules). The face-up stacks may also be selected, though those tiles cost a whopping 4 gold apiece. Note that a player may, for example, declare that 5 gold will be spent on tiles, draw the first face-down tile, and then choose either a face-up tile for the remaining 4 gold, or else continue to draw face-down tiles a 1 gold apiece. (The point here is that the player gets to make that decision after seeing the first face-down tile. He doesn't have to declare the actual tile *mix* used up-front.)

3. All expeditions must be traceable to a board edge (using a continuous path of dotted lines). Those tracing to the short, left side (when looking at the underlying woodcut image) are starting from the most unknown seas, and pay a 2 gold fee to the bank in addition to the gold spent on exploration tiles and possible scout/fort/settlement. Those tracing to either of the long edges pay a 1 gold fee, while those tracing to the right side are starting in the known world, and have no additional fee.

4. All expeditions that start on a tile containing an opponent's fort or settlement (not scout) must pay that opponent a tribute of 2 gold. This must also be paid if a expeditions trace to a board edge passes through a similarly occupied tile. A player may even have to pay multiple opponents. Note that if an expedition can trace to different board edges, the player is free to choose whichever he prefers (such as to pay a 1 gold board-edge fee to the bank rather than utilizing the free board edge that might trace past an opponent's piece). Of course, when those pieces are removed from the board as their island scores, they no longer impose any tribute on opponents' traced paths.

Other than that you play with the normal rules for original Entdecker.
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Kevin Whitmore
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Re:Old Entdecker with some New rules
My game group has been playing Original Entdecker with Mark's suggested rules tweaks for years now. They are excellent. But nonetheless we differ on a couple subtle points.

1. When buying tiles, we do not allow a mixture of known and unknown tiles. So you can pay for as many unknown tiles as you wish; or you can buy as many known tiles as you wish. But we do not allow mixing known and unknown tiles in a turn. (We felt getting the 'tile of your dreams' is good enough and you shouldn't be able to buy cheap tiles in the same turn.)

2. Discovery Chits. We've developed the following rules.

A> When Friendly Natives give you a chit, you receive victory points equal to the value.

B> At the end of the game every player receives a single victory point for each chip held.

C> The player with the most Discovery Chips receives a 2 victory point bonus.

D> In case of an absolute tie, we allow both players to draw a Discovery Chip. However, only the chips with the highest value is used to increase the island score. (This may be an official rule.)

3. We observe a limit of 12 gold per player. (Mark might do this too.) The New Entdecker removes any limit on cash held. We like the limit, as it keeps the players in closer contact with each other.

4. I'm unclear if this is a variant or the rule... We insist that a Captain decide if they plan to settle on a coastline when they discover the coastline. If they attempt to sail on, and fail, we do NOT allow them to settle on the island they failed to move away from.

5. One other rules we've ported over from the new game... If the draw stacks are depleted before the map is finished (due to lots of discards) shuffle the discard deck and continue until the map is completed.

Mark's suggested implementation is great. We've just modified it a tiny bit to fit our tastes. Enjoy!
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Eric Paquet
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MarkEJohnson wrote:

3. All expeditions must be traceable to a board edge (using a continuous path of dotted lines). Those tracing to the short, left side (when looking at the underlying woodcut image) are starting from the most unknown seas, and pay a 2 gold fee to the bank in addition to the gold spent on exploration tiles and possible scout/fort/settlement. Those tracing to either of the long edges pay a 1 gold fee, while those tracing to the right side are starting in the known world, and have no additional fee.


Hi Mark,

I've jusy bought the game and I plan to use the rules above for my first game. However, I was wondering why you didn't apply the New Entdecker rules to the Old game regarding the edges of the board.

Your rules for the starting edge :

North = 1 gold
South = 1 gold
East = free
West = 2 gold


New Entdecker official rules :

North = 2 gold
South = free
East = 1 gold
West = 1 gold

Is there any reason for having a different system or was it a mistake?

- Eric -
 
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Mark Johnson
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Zooboo wrote:
Is there any reason for having a different system or was it a mistake?


Yeah, the reason is simply thematic. Looking at the woodcut image on the board before it's populated with tiles, you can see why I started the "known world" (i.e. free edge) where I did.
 
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Jonathan Kift
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I just recently bought New Entdecker, and I was wondering what you thought would be the ideal way of incorporating some of the old rules into the new game. I'd like to try playing without the jungle exploration, just to see how it affects gameplay.
 
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Mark Johnson
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Kevin_Whitmore wrote:

2. Discovery Chits. We've developed the following rules.

A> When Friendly Natives give you a chit, you receive victory points equal to the value.

B> At the end of the game every player receives a single victory point for each chip held.

C> The player with the most Discovery Chips receives a 2 victory point bonus.


Ah! We'd also started using the A and B parts of your tweak, but not the final part C. I may try that soon. One other one I've experimented with is adding another restriction to getting a chit. You know there's always been the restriction that more than a scout must be present on the discovered island to yield a chit. I've tried also requiring the island to be at least three tiles in size to yield a chit. This is inspired by Carcassonne's scoring limit on 2-tile cities (their points aren't doubled), and comes from the same rationale: making it hard or impossible for a single player to swoop in and make a big score (tiny island+discovery chit) before any opponent has an opportunity to join in on their turn. Thematically, I like to explain it that you need an island of sufficient size to have a valuable native plant, and you need some sort of permanent building (fort or settlement) to profit from it.

Quote:

D> In case of an absolute tie, we allow both players to draw a Discovery Chip. However, only the chips with the highest value is used to increase the island score. (This may be an official rule.)


It is.

Quote:

3. We observe a limit of 12 gold per player. (Mark might do this too.) The New Entdecker removes any limit on cash held. We like the limit, as it keeps the players in closer contact with each other.


Agreed. I also just like the little pegboards for keeping the money, and those top-out at 12. So, I just kept that same limit.

Quote:

4. I'm unclear if this is a variant or the rule... We insist that a Captain decide if they plan to settle on a coastline when they discover the coastline. If they attempt to sail on, and fail, we do NOT allow them to settle on the island they failed to move away from.


I think this is an ambiguity that has always been part of the game. I play the way you do, describing the opportunity to build a scout/fort/settlement as a decision that must be made immediately after sailing to a new location. But I know others (such as Mark Jackson) prefer the more forgiving interpretation.

Quote:

5. One other rules we've ported over from the new game... If the draw stacks are depleted before the map is finished (due to lots of discards) shuffle the discard deck and continue until the map is completed.


Yeah, I think you have to do that. It's unfortunate that both editions of the game have this possibility.
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Justus
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Just curious 6 years later... how has this held up? And any suggestion whether to buy this or the new entdecker?
 
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Mark Johnson
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This is still how I play the game, and how my friends ask for it.
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Justus
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MarkEJohnson wrote:
Kevin_Whitmore wrote:

2. Discovery Chits. We've developed the following rules.

A> When Friendly Natives give you a chit, you receive victory points equal to the value.

B> At the end of the game every player receives a single victory point for each chip held.

C> The player with the most Discovery Chips receives a 2 victory point bonus.


Ah! We'd also started using the A and B parts of your tweak, but not the final part C. I may try that soon. One other one I've experimented with is adding another restriction to getting a chit. You know there's always been the restriction that more than a scout must be present on the discovered island to yield a chit. I've tried also requiring the island to be at least three tiles in size to yield a chit. This is inspired by Carcassonne's scoring limit on 2-tile cities (their points aren't doubled), and comes from the same rationale: making it hard or impossible for a single player to swoop in and make a big score (tiny island+discovery chit) before any opponent has an opportunity to join in on their turn. Thematically, I like to explain it that you need an island of sufficient size to have a valuable native plant, and you need some sort of permanent building (fort or settlement) to profit from it.


Mark, how have you resolved this situation? Do you require 3+ islands before giving chits or have you gone back to the original?

I recieved my copy and am hopint to play it soon! Cheers!
 
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Mark Johnson
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aaarg_ink wrote:
Mark, how have you resolved this situation? Do you require 3+ islands before giving chits or have you gone back to the original?


I require 3+. The way I usually explain it is that you must have more than the minimum number of tiles (i.e. >2), and more than the smallest presence on the island (i.e. >Scout).
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