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I was out thrifting today and when I pulled into my local Goodwill, all toys (and therefore games) have been pulled from the shelves. Apparently a new law just kicked in that makes them liable for possible lead poisoning on any children's items they sell.
The edict is supposed to be company wide, but the rep I spoke to said that enforcement has been pretty random from store to store (and lucky me, I get a strict one).
According to them, if you sell any kid's items at a rummage sale, thrift shop, church auction, etc. you can be held liable for the lead content.
If this is true, this could have a big impact on the secondary game market, a market which is very important to some of us.
I was also told that they have a big company wide meeting coming up where a final decision will be made on whether they will carry kids items anymore (including games).
Anyone know anything about this?
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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Its a far reaching (really over reaching law) that seeks to protect children from lead poisoning (do not forget lead poisoning in this country is almost impossible to find). See http://overlawyered.com/ for more information than you can ever imagine,
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Brandon M
United States
Branchburg
New Jersey
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I don't think it's a new law per se, but rather a new regulation that the Consumer Product Safety Commmission is enforcing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09120.html
I believe they did make some adjustments to it in response to complaints after the initial announcement, but I guess second-hand toys are still affected.
All because some toy manufacturers in China decided to cut corners. 
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Doc Bullseye
United States
Brownsburg
Indiana
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Until every Wal-Mart gets closed down, I don't believe it.
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Subhan Michael Tindall
United States
Portland
Oregon
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It is a new law, it was slated to go in to effect Feb. 10th, however implementation of testing requirements has been suspended for 1 year after public outcry.
see this for further details on how the new regs impact resellers.
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Mark Gage
United States
Bend
Oregon
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So I guess we'll see all the thrifters down at the county dump ...
Maybe we could pass a regulation that would require boardgames be sold as a way to protect thrifters from rabies and tetnus.
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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NO!!! The law took effect on 2/10/09. It is not new law or new regs. It is becoming very controversial. Visit http://overlawyered.com/ Your thrift store games will be gone. Who wants to be subject to liability of up to $100,000 or imprisonment. Thrift stores do not have to test, but still face liability. Hiring a lawyer will cost $5000 or more. What thrift can do that? The rational thing is to toss it all in the dumpster. Call your congressman or senator (like they really care.)
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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subhan wrote: It is a new law, it was slated to go in to effect Feb. 10th, however implementation has been suspended for 1 year after public outcry. The CPSC has also explicitly stated that the law does not & will not apply to thrift stores..
Yes, the CPSC voted to delay implementation for one year. However, the legality of that will probably question in court. Second, every state attorney general's office (all 50 of them) may and can enforce this law right now. It has been common recently for some attorney general's (in the tobacco and Katrina litigation) to contract out to outside firms work such as this. I would look for this to happen. Think nothing of a small used bookstore or thrift to receive a demand letter for $5000. It all adds up for the outside firm.
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United States
Danbury
Connecticut
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Man, now where am I going to find lead bricks, if not for my local Goodwill? Sheesh.
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I would also add that they said that the machine that they would need to test individual items for lead costs around $40,000. Obviously, that is not something that your typical thrift store can afford to have on hand.
I think best case scenario for the time being is that rather than pull everything, they develop some sort of breakdown as to risky vs. non-risky items.
I don't know where board games would fit in this spectrum. Are there old games that might have components that would be a danger and therefore make it easier for them to just lump all games together?
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Gene Warren
United States
Redwood City
California
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I would say that the negative effect on thrift stores stocking games is likely to be temporary(at least for games that are currently in print). The reason for this is that after the law goes into effect, all current retail games will have to be lead tested. Those that fail will probably end up on some recall list which thrift stores can check against before putting a game out on a shelf. This should avoid things like old copies of Cranium Cadoo making it back into circulation, while allowing games that are currently in print to be resold while being in compliance with the law.
Still they might need to have implement some kind of waiver form that the purchaser signs saying they are purchasing a product that may contain lead or other harmful chemicals/
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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The Public Safety Commission has advised that children's books printed before 1985 should be discarded as the ink may contain lead. Not a big leap to older board games. Not one child has ever been hurt from lead in boardgames or books. My local library has a dumpster out front. They told me they were discarding old books.
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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badgermaniac wrote: I think best case scenario for the time being is that rather than pull everything, they develop some sort of breakdown as to risky vs. non-risky items.
you are assuming a small thrift has the time to do that. Most people are risk adverse and like unbreakable rules. Simpler to toss than check.
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A Derk appears from the mists...
United States
Portland
Oregon
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le sigh
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milandoug wrote: badgermaniac wrote: I think best case scenario for the time being is that rather than pull everything, they develop some sort of breakdown as to risky vs. non-risky items.
you are assuming a small thrift has the time to do that. Most people are risk adverse and like unbreakable rules. Simpler to toss than check.
Well, when it is a matter of keeping product moving, I think they might try to find time. A simple list in the stockroom as to throw vs. keep wouldn't seem to be very time consuming (much like the earlier poster noted).
I am guessing that children't items are THE major money maker at places like Goodwill. If they can get by with a simple system of "allow" vs. "don't allow", I think the time is well worth the investment.
Even something as simple as kid's clothes with zippers need to be tossed, while kid's clothes without zipper stay would be a beneficial policy.
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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No, rather I think the fear of litigation is driving this. And its not so simple as you make it.
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Joe
United States
Jamaica Plain
Massachusetts
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milandoug wrote: Its a far reaching (really over reaching law) that seeks to protect children from lead poisoning (do not forget lead poisoning in this country is almost impossible to find). See http://overlawyered.com/ for more information than you can ever imagine,
Lead poisoning is not impossible to find in this country. Approximately 280,000 1-5 years old are currently lead poisoned (Blood Lead >10 mcg/dL). Pb poisoning is very highly prevalent in the developing world.
BTW-I have references for these statistics if you would like them.
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Eric Raabe
United States
Green Bay
Wisconsin
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Hmm. So how will the sale of used lead miniatures be handled?
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Steve Reynolds
United States
New Hampshire
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milandoug wrote: NO!!! The law took effect on 2/10/09. It is not new law or new regs. It is becoming very controversial. Visit http://overlawyered.com/ Your thrift store games will be gone. Who wants to be subject to liability of up to $100,000 or imprisonment. Thrift stores do not have to test, but still face liability. Hiring a lawyer will cost $5000 or more. What thrift can do that? The rational thing is to toss it all in the dumpster. Call your congressman or senator (like they really care.)
Our local thrift store had (and I assume its the association of thrift stores) a petition to modify the law which I was glad to sign. Outlawing used toys and clothes is a brilliant (tongue-in-cheek) subsidy to toy and clothing manufacturers and the sellers of their new products at the expense of persons with limited financial means.
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Dave Gilligan
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
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I dropped by our local Goodwill just the other day and when I got back to the section where the toys were supposed to be, the shelves were totally empty. I thought that was really odd considering there have always been toys, puzzles, etc...for sale. The occasional game was there as well but nothing I was ever tempted to buy. The subject of this thread must explain why the shelves were bare.
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Subhan Michael Tindall
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Harry Plopper wrote:
Lead poisoning is not impossible to find in this country. Approximately 280,000 1-5 years old are currently lead poisoned (Blood Lead >10 mcg/dL). Pb poisoning is very highly prevalent in the developing world.
BTW-I have references for these statistics if you would like them.
Do you have statistics on the SOURCE of the lead? I'd venture a strong guess that far & away the most common sources of the lead are old paint & contaminated soil, not toys & games. BTW, part of the reason lead poisoning is prevalent in the developing world is leaded gasoline.
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George Kinney
United States
Bellefontaine
Ohio
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badgermaniac wrote: I am guessing that children't items are THE major money maker at places like Goodwill.
If that were true, I think they'd devote more than a single side of a single riser to children's stuff, maybe eat into the 90-95% of the floor space occupied by clothing...
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Robert Sweeney
United States
Clinton Township
Michigan
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Er, how much longer will my 15mm armies be safe from government over regulation? Must I offer gloves and masks to my opponents or let the insidious lead armies creep their perfidious secretions through the very pores of my enemies? I love my country, but my government....
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Doug Iverson
United States
Ripon
Wisconsin
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As far as I found searching the internet, the most common source of lead poisoning is from old housing stock. The lead is in the old paint that kids eat and in the dirt outside. Not in toys or books or clothes. There are kids with elevated blood lead levels. Most likely from the house they lived in. Toys and games are not responsible. Call your congressman. Call your senator.
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Harry Plopper wrote: milandoug wrote: Its a far reaching (really over reaching law) that seeks to protect children from lead poisoning (do not forget lead poisoning in this country is almost impossible to find). See http://overlawyered.com/ for more information than you can ever imagine, Lead poisoning is not impossible to find in this country. Approximately 280,000 1-5 years old are currently lead poisoned (Blood Lead >10 mcg/dL). Pb poisoning is very highly prevalent in the developing world. BTW-I have references for these statistics if you would like them.
How about some statistics for how many of those are poisoned from toys, games and children's books?
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