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Subject: Battlestar Galactica or shadows over camelot rss

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Nohora del Pilar Bohorquez
United States
Doral
Florida
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Hi to everyone:D
I'm having a big big big problem. I don't know what to do. I have read most of the reviews of Battlestar galactica and Shadows, and i don't know what game to buy.The two games sound awesome:p
They say that BG is good but long and if you are not familiar with the tv series is not that fun. SOC is short, fun, but the paranoia is less to BG.
My big concern is this: replayability.
If SOC has the expansion of Merlin's, which of the two games, Battlestar Galactica or SOC+EX has more replayability, more interaction and fun?

I will apreciate all you sincere answers

Thanks:)
 
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Andy
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I own both games, and love them both... I rate BSG slightly higher because I am a fan of the series, and I think the game portrays the show very well. I think Battlestar is a bit deeper and has more player interaction, but Camelot allows for a bit more 'joking' about.. especially if you are into Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

I have owned Shadows for a lot longer, and have 25 plays of that game.. and I will still play it. The expansion adds to the game, and makes it a bit tougher, but I don't think it is necessary for replayability.

I recently (over the last few months) taught both games to someone who had never seen BSG and has no interest in the show... they much preferred Camelot... however I have played BSG with others that do not know the show, and they have enjoyed the game.
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John Culp
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Gillette
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both have their pluses and minuses...

but I ended up trading away Shadows and kept BSG. the actions in BSG make more sense to me, and in shadows we started 'gaming' whether or not to reveal the traitor, as sometimes he's more powerful revealed than not.
 
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Mark Johnson
Canada
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They are both games, and I can see why people would compare them however I do consider it worthwhile to own both. This is what I think of them:

Shadows Over Camelot: This game accommodates less and more people than Battlestar Galactica. Shadows also have the benefit of playing purely coop or with a traitor. The base game is probably too easy when played entirely coop, but with Merlin's Company, lack of challenge shouldn't be an issue. People say that Shadows drags with a high number of players but even if it does drag I think it would end quicker than a game of BSG with an equal number of players. Shadows has an easier rules set and less need of clarification... this shouldn't surprise you as BSG is a FFG game

Battlestar Galactica - This game is great and induces a lot of paranoia amongst the players. Another benefit is that BSG is highly thematic. Shadows has you build poker hands to complete quests in medieval times... what?! I also feel with Battlestar Galactica, each time you play will have more variation from game-to-game (even without the Pegasus Expansion) than Shadows which could start to feel 'samey' if you play it often. BSG does take a long time, but it can generally entertain you throughout and is less likely to feel like it's dragging.

In the end you should get the game that best suits the needs of your group. If people have problem with competitive games/conflict, then Shadows would probably be a better choice. If a shorter game time is necessary (because not everyone can commit 3+ hours on a game) Shadows might be a better choice. If you have less than 4 or more than 6 you should probably get Shadows. If none of the previous issues are relevent then BSG would probably be a better choice. I like both and rate them both a solid 7.
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Phil Crompton
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Hi Bogislao,

I have a copy of both games and love them both. If you are after paranoia then Battlestar is the game to go for. I don't think it matters if you've seen the series or not as long as you give players the flavour of the game before you play it. We played on saturday just gone with 4 of us and 2 had never watched the series and ended up becoming very involved.

Shadows is a great team game if played without the traitor and played with adds a little bit of paranoia. It's a quicker game than BG. I'm not sure the expansion for Shadows did anything special for me and I'd definately say that you do not need it.

Overal it's a tough call. If you can afford both then get both ! If you can't then I'd say go with Shadows first - then quickly get BG.
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Destroyer of Islands
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Shadows will take you about an hour and a half for your first game, and probably an hour once you are used to it.

BSG will take you at least 3 hours for your first game, and may not speed up with experience.

BSG can cause way more analysis paralysis than Shadows, but has way more depth. It definitely has more player interaction. Shadows is easier to teach and easier to pick up by non-gamers, and can be really fun if you feel like pretending to be knights and speak in pseudo-middle english.

I prefer Shadows because I do not like games that last all night, but they are both good games. YMMV.



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Isaiah Tanenbaum
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I own both and have taught both to new players. While BSG is the better game overall, I think your likelihood of having fun actually comes down to the group and their experience/patience level.

If your group consists of experienced gamers, then I'd go right to BSG. It's a deeper game and ultimately more rewarding. The theme is better and the choices are far more interesting, especially for the traitor.

If, however, they are still just graduating from Apples to Apples, Catan, or Ticket to Ride, BSG will probably be TOO MUCH GAME for them. They will be very confused for much of their first session. This session will take HOURS, and each individual turn will likewise take forever because there are lots of choices to be made and many intricate rules that interact with one another. There is a lot of text, too, and the effective card/action combos won't be apparent at first, meaning you'll spend a great deal of time before you even jump (the measure of progress in a game of BSG).

When I taught this game at my theater company's retreat, after about an hour of setting up, explaining, and playing while explaining, we finally hit our first jump. They wanted to know how much longer the game ran; I told them it was about 20% over and they groaned, even though they were having fun. At this point we decided to call it a night. The next time we played GiftTRAP and Settlers plus Catan: Seafarers and were very happy.

Shadows, however, is pretty quick to get into. You can lay out the rules and get a full game in on the first play, even with people whose only game experience is Monopoly and Poker (which especially helps, as has been mentioned). This was a big hit at the previous year's retreat, which had even fewer "gamers," although one player shared with me that he found the lack of long-term strategy frustrating (he was one of the reasons I brought BSG this year; he especially enjoyed it).

Ultimately it's worth owning both, as they are each very good games in their own right, and Shadows could be seen as a possible gateway to BSG (having played it made BSG a lot easier to explain). They can also both be found for $30 or so if you look around enough.
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Arthur Rutyna
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I agree with all of the above posters. I faced the same decision as the OP and chose Shadows over Camelot for 2 reasons.

1) I like the theme better. I think more people have heard of King Arthur & the Knights of the Round table than BSG.

2) SoC is easier, and more straight forward to play than BSG. Since I was picking this up specifically to play with the family, it was a no brainer, Shadows over Camelot.

Don't get me wrong, BSG is a fine game, just not what I was looking for.
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David Hoffman
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I've got both games, and I really like both of them. If I had to own only one, I think I'd stick with Shadows over Camelot. Not because it's a "better" game, but because most of the folks I play with didn't watch the new BSG series and, as such, aren't interested in playing a BSG game.

This, of course, means I play SoC more than BSG, and therefore would prefer to play BSG, etc., etc.

But, in short, I, personally, find it easier to get Shadows over Camelot on the table. And, as good as BSG is, I think that's something which one should consider; will I be able to get folks to play it?
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Stephen Sekela
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bogislao,

I really enjoy both games very much - and believe they both have thier place.

Benefits of SoC are that it is a little bit shorter and less complicated, and has the option of being played completely cooperative. Would also probably make a better "gateway" game.

Benefits of BSG (in my opinion) are that it is such an amazing translation of the show and that it allows for a higher level of interaction and subversion/treachery.

I have played SoC with the Merlin expansion, but have not played the BSG Pegasus expansion - so I can't compare expansions.

I would argue that you couldn't go wrong with either one - just depends on what level of complexity and playing time you are looking for. If it comes down to replayability, I'd have to go with BSG (as long as your group can get into the theme).

Good Luck!
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Nohora del Pilar Bohorquez
United States
Doral
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Thanks to all for your answers.
My group is a experience one (Ra, Taj, Amun-re, Power Grid, Steam, Catan, Maharaja, Arkham horror, Last night on earth, Tigris and euphrates).
I think i will go with BG, sounds perfect to our group: with a intense paranoia. Later i will buy SOC, that it's not a bad game, but a good, fun, and we will practice our medieval speech arrrh

Thanks to all of you guys.
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Phil Crompton
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Good choice !

watch out for the frackin' toasters....robot
 
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Richard Maurer
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I would recommend both because they are both very enjoyable with groups. I do think that Battlestar Galactica is a little more complex than Shadows over Camelot, but over all both games deliver a great experience and allow for everyone work together on a team rather than against each other which can be difficult for those people who do not like competitive games.
 
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Paul Kimmel
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I bought Shadows Over Camelot because our group loves Battlestar Galactica, but I wanted a shorter, less complicated game. While it has some of the same elements, and is significantly shorter, it gets almost no play in our group. We would rather commit to a 3 hour session of BG than a game of SoC. The BG games have an intensity that is simply lacking in SoC, in my experience.

And while the gameplay in SoC certainly holds up just as well, the theme just doesn't feel as well integrated as it is with BG. It would be better if the game were entirely tongue-in-cheek, with a Monty Python and the Holy Grail theme. The quicker play would really benefit from a more light-hearted and humorous approach.

Also, while BG is largely a cooperative game, SoC feels less so. You discuss the quests you are going to undertake, but often there are so many challenges on the board that each one is being done individually.

I do enjoy SoC whenever our group plays it, but no one ever asks to play it, unlike BG.

I should point out that the majority of us enjoyed the series immensely, which certainly contributes to our love of BG.
 
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Daniel Castellanos
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BSG is the better game

but theme is important to whether the players enjoy the game, and if you have ever played a game where no one is into it... then you know it is usually a sucky game

Shadows has a better theme for mainstream play since everyone knows King Arthur.

If you have lots of friends who have seen BSG, then get BSG.

I have both games. Shadows comes out in mixed company. I save BSG for special events when only BSG fans are playing. I enjoy BSG far more. The two times I have played BSG with nonBSG fans I regretted it.
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