Dead Eye Dick
United States
San Francisco
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Before I dive into the review, I wanted to touch on my history with the IP so that you, gentle reader, can understand where this review is coming from. By the by, I am known as HedgeWizard on a ton of other forums, FFG's in particular.
I was ambivalent when I heard the news that FFG was remaking WFRP. Afterall, I was an old school WFRP GM; I picked up the original in 1986 and it quickly became my favorite RPG setting and one of my favorite systems. The Green Ronin / Black Industries version 2 to me was a huge improvement to the system (and a step back in setting). I of course owned all of the source book material and handful of the new adventures. I particularly loved the Realms of Sorcery and Tome of Corruption books that were put out for v2.
When FFG picked up the license, I wasn't sure what to make of it. I own and adore a great many FFG boardgames, but I wasn't familiar with their RPG work. However, I did pick up the Career Compendium when it debuted, and it quickly became one of my favorite source books ever. That book plus Shades of Empire suggested to me that FFG knew the game, knew the player base and were going to do well by the IP.
Then I heard they were doing a complete revamp... uh oh I thought. Then the designer diaries came out, and while I liked some ideas (the abstract range system for instance), there were a lot more I was very, very unsure about: the dice pool mechanic, the plethora of cards & chits, the much limited career set in comparison with the v1/v2 corebooks, and so on. I knew they understood the setting (and would thankfully be allowed to reset the timeline to pre-Storm of Chaos). But the mechanics were integral to giving players the feel of the Old World.
Still, I kept an open mind, and saw some advantages to what they were doing. I am blessed to have a decent income and figured I would at least buy it and try it out myself before I made any judgements. Now that I have had a chance to read through the system, play a few games, I feel like I can confidently review this new version.
BEGIN THE REVIEW!
 The Bad:
Yes, there are a limited number of careers. Yes, spell casters are limited to three colleges, divine casters are limited to three cults. I know why this is so; because of the production limitation. Careers are cards, spells are cards. More cards increases costs; the core set was already expensive enough. Still I was dismayed over the lack of casting option, particularly the absence of Hedge Wizardry, Necromancy and Chaotic magic - all musts in the campaign I had written.
The layout of the rules are a problem. Sometimes there are rules buried in what appears to be flavor text. Some rules are repeated in various places (I am looking at you rules for successes). Because of this, it is doubly important for a GM to thoroughly read through the books, and in my case, I built some fairly thorough GM guides to remind me of the rules.
The components are limited. This is not really too bad of a problem if you have a copier on hand, but I've seen a lot of griping that player's can't all be the same career, or have the same abilities or spells. To me, that's a straw man, as it's quite easy to note the info down just like you did in days of old, or you can copy materials. Still, it is an inconvenience, and one I fully acknowledge.
The character sheets aren't comprehensive. They don't cover things like physical characteristics, of which I mean, height, weight, features, etc. There isn't a place to note your birthplace, your dooming (which they don't offer in this version... yet), and other flavor background. They're designed to use 1 sheet per character, per career, which is a necessity given the new advance mechanic, but I would have liked to have seen a larger, more comprehensive sheet.
 The Good.
The system is very rules "light." What I mean is that this isn't a system that spells out the mechanics for arbitrating wearing plate and trying to swim across a raging river. It doesn't tell you explicitly that if you are flanked by three or more enemies you suffer a penalty or they receive X bonus. What it does do is allow the GM and players to come up with something, very quickly, on the fly, that makes sense. This is possible through their very ingenious dice pool system.
Yes, there are quite a few multi-colored dice with a fistful of symbols. But, that daunting prospect is moot as they totally and utterly are understandable at a quick glance within a handful of your first rolls. It really becomes quite intuitive, and then it's a matter of quickly:
1. Deciding what the base difficulty of a task is
2. Adding misfortune dice for negative modifiers as they make sense
3. Adding fortune dice for positive modifiers as they make sense. [/c]
No adding and subtracting to come up with one modifier for a percentile or other roll. Just roll and count the successes. Then you can very easily see if there are net boons (good fortune has favored you) or net banes (bad fortune has struck) and come up with a narrative explanation for the action. It's very elegant, it's faster than I thought it would be, my players have picked up the system very quickly, and best of all, it promotes a sense of free form play.
A note on that last bit: I have run or played in a lot of systems over the years, including the more free form narrative/no-dice games up through Rolemaster and its brethren which has a table for EVERYTHING. Before I played this new version, I didn't realize how constrained I was feeling by heavier rule sets. I've come to really appreciate the ease with which I can size up a challenge (issue the appropriate number of challenge dice) and then add misfortune and fortune dice in a way that makes sense for the action, situation, character and story. At first what I saw was a drawback (not having a lot of rules explicitly rendered), is now a huge aid for me in being able to come up with appropriate challenges on the fly.
And to be honest, at this point, the rules have disappeared. After just a couple of plays, even my rule cheat sheets have disappeared into the background. I reference them very infrequently throughout play as the system has become that intuitive to us. Amazingly too, all of the components have disappeared into the background. Yes, there are a way more fiddly bits than any other RPG I've run, but they do aid in storytelling and they disappear as much as the character sheets of yore did.
I was concerned initially with all of the tracking; track fatigue, stress, recharges, stances, etc. But the mechanical aspect of tracking these isn't that far away from ticks on a sheet (being written and erased over, and over, and over). Yes, recharges on actions (like parry and dodge for instance) is a bit MMO-esque. But I can see the mechanical rationale for it (you're in a conservative stance and take a long time aiming the perfect shot; you lost the time to prepare your parry for example), and to be honest, even that has disappeared. It's managed quite easily, and players do it as an afterthought at this point. They announce what they're doing, grab a chit and place it in the right place, and they're onto to narrating their action and rolling the dice.
Career advancement is substantially different in this version, mechanically anyway, but it is structured such that every character even if they're sharing the same career, can be developed quite differently, and the choices can be quite meaningful. They could push their stance to a more reckless style, they can focus on one skill over another, or acquire a broad range of skills, or increase a characteristic. It all adds up to differentiating your character based on what your conception of your character is and not on a mandated, across-the-board set of advancements.
I do appreciate that much of the Tome of Adventure is written to facilitate planning and designing adventures. Yes, it's geared a bit towards the new GM who might not have thought about things like pacing, and player hooks, and arbitrating the odd test here and there. But there are some genuine good ideas on how to incorporate their novel tracking mechanics into your scenarios, which if nothing else, acts as a springboard for creating new situations.
Socially focused careers have new abilities via action cards geared towards influencing NPCs. It's not as robust as Green Ronin's excellent intrigue system in a Song of Ice and Fire RPG, but it does a great job at providing a means for socially capable characters to influence play in an organic-to-the-system way. What is particularly enjoyable, is many of these social action cards/abilities are "support" trait cards; meaning they help the group performance overall. Many players are referring to the social influence system as "social combat" which isn't too far off the mark.
Players roll initiative, based on Fellowship instead of Agility. They can maneuver and take actions (use abilities, cards, make checks) to influence the target, and so on. The suggestion is to create a simple influence track such that successes from the PC's actions move the counter one way, successes or thwarts from the NPC move the tracker another way. A GM can quickly build an appropriate length track (say it requires 6 influence to get the deal, or 10 for the baron to throw is support behind them, etc.) and get to the haggling.
Again, the rules don't prescribe a mandated way to resolve these situations, rather they offer you some suggestions and allow you to use what makes sense for your story and for your game group. That amount of freedom bothers some, particularly rules-lawyer types who prefer to point to a rule and stick to the letter of the law in all circumstances, partly because it is precisely & fairly applied to everyone everywhere. I find myself relishing the lack of hard and fast rules and instead revel in the fluid and fast ability to construct something that makes sense and works on the fly.
I've come to appreciate the party sheet and the tension meter. I think too many people focused on the notion that the tension meter should be used to track meta-game arguments. Yes, examples were given of players not deciding on actions fast enough, or having at-the-table arguments as reasons to adjust the meter. They chose to focus on that instead of seeing the other opportunities: racial tension between character races, situations that place high pressure on the group to perform, terrifying monsters who not only add stress to characters but put stress on the group, etc.
The party sheet also gives me a way to reward smart or engaging play; instead of piling accolades on one player who is an awesome actor and really dives into his role as a character (thereby possibly upsetting the XP balance which is how most games reward good play), I can reward the entire party for his skills while also rewarding the other players for thinking of creative solutions to problems in character. Essentially the GM adds fortune tokens to the sheet, and when there are an equal number of tokens as there are characters, everyone takes on token from the sheet for their personal use. Fortune is used to buy fortune dice, or to reduce action recharges. I've even extended it to buying clues/items. So if the players are stuck in an investigation, they can burn fortune to help alleviate their frustration (maybe they come across a note, or someone offers up a piece of information). Maybe a PC is stuck in an alley without their weapon, they can burn a fortune to have something at hand; a board with some nails in it, etc.
Finally, even with the lack of some content (again, limited careers, spells, etc) I find it VERY easy to make my own iterations based on my understanding of the system. You quickly get a sense of whether a power should cost two favor or a comet, and what might happen if a PC gets two banes instead, and voila! You have a new spell.
All in all, you can see I wrote a lot more about what I found favorable in the new system than the problems I felt were worth noting. I definitely see there are valid complaints with the creation and timing of this product (and I see a lot more from people who just like to troll, or hate the cult of the new, etc).
It has its shortcomings, as does EVERY system that you didn't personally design for yourself. But on balance, I find the following to be true:
1. The mechanics support the theme. The world is still grim, and gritty and dangerous. Casters still suffer from the twin effects of societal fear of casters and the raw power of chaos and its ability to twist magic. Combat is fast and deadly. Yes, starting characters are a little more capable than in prior versions, but to me that ends up in less downtime as characters flail to achieve things or hit targets. I don't find the difference grossly out of line; peasants are peasants (or in this case commoners) and life still sucks for them.
Casters can over channel and suffer the results, or worse, miscast a spell and get fried for dabbling in chaos, to say nothing of the public's reaction to their deeds. Insanities are gained with alarming regularity, and while not as described as in-depth compared to prior incarnations, these have wonderful mechanical implications spelled out.
Critical wounds aren't as devastating; in most cases in prior versions, a critical was almost guaranteed to kill. Here, you can suffer one (or three) critical througout a fight, each of which has a mechanical effect. Wounds are tracked through cards; you take 10 wounds, you grab 10 wound cards. If three are criticals, you flip over three cards and voila, there are the criticals and the effects.
Gone are the days of percentile body hit locations. I know some people loved that, and I did too, but I am a little surprised here that I don't miss it. Also gone are the rolls for parrying. Everything is handled in one roll; if your opponent can (and wants to attempt to) parry, add a certain number of misfortune to your roll. It's all handled in one roll... and thus combat ends up being quite a bit faster as a result of these changes, and still just as deadly.
2. The majority of the mechanical components disappear after the first 20 minutes of play. Rolling becomes quick, chits fade into the background, and the focus is all on the action. The one issue we did find was players sorting through their action cards the first few sessions to get a sense of what they could do, much like a spellcaster would constantly review their spells in other games. But to be honest, it's not that much different than a player who hadn't read the rules thoroughly and doesn't know they can parry versus dodge, or go all-out-attack versus defensive attack, etc.
One problem I want to address: cost for material. A given RPG isn't likely to thrive, and perhaps won't survive, without being able to sell us new material. A book for casters, a book for cults, a book for monsters, a book for a region, etc. etc. etc. This is no different here, except in terms of scale. If you wanted more careers in v2, you needed to make your own, or buy a supplement that had the careers. If you wanted more chaos spells, you needed the Tome of Corruption; if you wanted some additional Necromantic magic, you could buy the Night's Dark Masters book. If you wanted all the college spells, you bought Realms of Sorcery and so on. Each of those books had more careers, sometimes more skills and talents, etc.
Here you are starting at a deficiency in terms of careers (again, because of the cost of producing the associated materials of cards, components), but you can acquire more. I do think what is included in the core set is more than enough to start a new campaign in this awesome setting; no you won't be able to transport your characters from your old campaign who are into their fourth careers. But you have enough to go a goodly distance while new supplements come out (and they're already being printed and/or shipped as of this writing).
Plus, as I mentioned, it really isn't that hard to convert the careers of old into the careers of the new. The components do facilitate playing the game, and help keep those rulebooks closed, but still some are going to balk at their inclusion and how that ramps the start-up and maintenance cost of the game. This review has already run long enough that I am not going to do a cost comparison on a book-by-book basis (this one had x# of careers, spells, etc.)
The Final Word
I will leave it with this: if you can't afford the base set among you and three players; if the idea of playing a very good ROLEPLAYING game that uses cards puts you off, if you feel that you can't possibly write actions down on a piece of paper to accommodate a fourth, fifth or sixth player just like you used to in other games offends you - this game is not for you.
If you are interested in a beautifully rendered game, with an elegant action resolution system, and a penchant for a down and dirty world settings AND you're willing to pay the price of entry for you and three friends +, this new version of WFRP is quite a treat!
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Justin Robben
United States
Spring Hill
Florida
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Really strong review...and comprehensive enough to give those who are still unsure, some food to chew.
Good work!
I, too, think it's a great system. Yes, indeed, it needs time to percolate...and some of those expansions to flesh out the careers and concepts (FFG style  ), but it's an awesome start, imho.
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Dead Eye Dick
United States
San Francisco
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jgerman wrote:
It's not a strawman, not by the actual definition, nor the one you're implying.
You're right, it's not a straw man in the technical sense, but the vast majority of people don't know much about formal and informal fallacies and so use the term to mean non-starter or artificially constructed argument.
I do agree that converting the card material to book would be a reduced cost overall, but think about it and think about the content on those cards. Think about capturing all of that in a book and then translate it efficiently for your characters. Part of the problem is that everything is so inherently tied to the dice and the symbols, so to capture all of that info on respective sheets would be time consuming and inefficient.
The cards do a great job of providing scenario and action specific details WHEN needed. When they're not needed, they disappear.
As for myself, I initially spent only a little time thumbing through the various cards to get a sense of what they did and were like. I left the analysis to my players to go through the decks according to their character interests.
What I am saying is I don't have to know (or memorize) the rules attached to those cards - the players control that information and it appears when it's needed. I have to say, I like that over something like having a ton of feats that I should probably know because most players don't/won't write out the full details on the feat on their character sheet - by way of 1 example.
Clearly though, if it's not your thing, then it's not your thing. Thanks for giving my review a read, and good gaming!
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Nathan Roberts
Australia
Bombala
NSW
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G'day Richard,
Thankyou for a thoughtful and poignant review of a system that is causing a few of us 'greybeards' to take heed, or at least chew on our d100's a little more.
I too am from the 'Old Skool', having made the transition from runequest to rolemaster to WHRFP in the early 80's. Played many campaigns of my own design (often foistered off unsuspecting cop shows on telly) and have run 'The Enemy Within' in all its permutations with both 1st and 2nd editions. I also have a perchant for hedge wizardry, illusionism and elementalism; preferring the idea that Teclis' ideology was just one of many that described the 'act' of magic (or faith) in the material world.
I enjoy writing and designing people, places and hooks. Maps ajourn my journal illustrations, one line quotes from TV characters become fully fleshed old world personalities, theological discussions at work find their way into the WHFRP mileu. My shelves are creaking with supplements, rulebooks, hand written roleplay 'idea' journals, warpstone magazines, endless character sheets and printed play aids from various online collaborations.....
Do I need this? I mean, I am as bad a sucker for the cult of the new as the next guy, but always with the idea that the 'old' stuff is still relevent, useful and still picked up occasionly. Will this happen with this new shiny version?
One of my favourite RPG pastimes is to conceptualise a NPC character from where they are to where they were. The WHFRP career system worked beautifully in this regard. My favoured crusty old Witch Hunter was once a priest of Shallya, served time as a torturer post recruitment into the lord's levy after being tried for poaching.....
Can the new system cope with this?
I love adaption of the 'rules'. My games are always free flowing, and over the years, the dice and rulesmongery have blended into the background. This is what I like about the new system. It beckons to me, a sirens song of free-form lust and storytelling adventure. Glorious art and cards to tempt and cajole the narrative from the group. Is this a double edged sword? Does the picture of a whipthin young male coachmen perched on the card in front of you irk you after sometime, knowing all to well that your alter ego, despite obstensibly being a 'coachman', is a alchoholic, overweight, halfling miscreant wishing she had never taken that debt of 20 crowns to the Stirling Coaches Company last winter to cover gambling debts?
I like the idea of chits, cards, tension scales and group 'character'. I'm sure this flammery will all fade into the tableau of play, in essence this is all good for the story. But what of my 1st ed storylines? What of running (once again) the ubiquitious 'Shadows over Bogenhafen'? Will it translate easily, or is the effort too much? Is there a 'blended' medium? Can you retain the new dicepool mechanic with old school characters and skill collections? Could you throw in a d100 hit location roll or 'winds of chaos' corruption roll for 'effect' and not cause a huge halt in play? Can you wing it when your druid wants to call apon his version of Rhya the Mothe Goddess? Can you steal a chaos knight adversary you developed from 'Realms of Chaos' and hatch his new plans for spreading nurgles pestilence on an unsuspecting town? Can you add doomings / background development / quirks to 'newborn' characters without too much fuss? As Dick implies, the 'old' mechanics were integral to giving players the feel of the Old World.
This may seem like an immature rant, yet these questions are the 'brainstorming' of my decision process to buy or not. Money or lack thereof is not the issue. The loss of previous, (well loved and integrated) 1st and 2nd ed. material to inactivity and relegation is.
I have a fond hope of running a streamlined fusion of all the material I like from all editions; story arcs, characters, events, concepts of magic and mechanics all included. Although somewhat jilted, this synergy developed over time with my 1st and 2nd ed material. I'm just afraid opening this new Pandora's Box will sink the rest of the shelf into obscurity.
The other reason that tugs at my heartstrings is that this game will prove an excellent 'in' for the previously reluctant boardgame crew. Over time the role-playing has given way to the more accessible, easily organised, highly visual 1-2 hour evening's entertainment for friends with jobs, kids, other interests and little or no concept of 'role-playing'. Perhaps this game will draw them in, provide a fertile leaping off point, with all its pretty cards and chits and handfulls of dice. Hopefully soon, Caylus becomes a distant memory as they become heavily invested in thwarting (or helping) the machinations of chaos gnawing at the underbelly of their fictional 'Dark and Perilous' world!
In any case, games (board, RPG, video, party) are what and who you make of them. I believe this box (and its inevitable plethora of offspring) will grace my already groaning warhammer shelf, an tha's gnaw a baa thang Gromit. I just hope the other material is pulled out once in a while.
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Dead Eye Dick
United States
San Francisco
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Noofy wrote: ... have run 'The Enemy Within' in all its permutations with both 1st and 2nd editions. Oh me too... I've run Shadows at least a dozen times all the way through, and Mistaken Identity through to Power Behind the Throne a handful of times. Essentially, everytime I find a new player, I put 'em through the epic.
Noofy wrote: Do I need this? I mean, I am as bad a sucker for the cult of the new as the next guy, but always with the idea that the 'old' stuff is still relevent, useful and still picked up occasionly. Will this happen with this new shiny version?
To be honest, I don't know. Perhaps my answers to your other questions will help.
Noofy wrote: One of my favourite RPG pastimes is to conceptualise a NPC character from where they are to where they were. The WHFRP career system worked beautifully in this regard. My favoured crusty old Witch Hunter was once a priest of Shallya, served time as a torturer post recruitment into the lord's levy after being tried for poaching.....
Can the new system cope with this?
Yes. There is a very streamlined way of creating and using NPCs and monsters. I like that because it is fast, and you can arbitrate skill checks very quickly and on the fly. But you can always create NPCs the old fashion way - make a character. Put them through their careers step-by-step.
Noofy wrote: ...Glorious art and cards to tempt and cajole the narrative from the group. Is this a double edged sword? Does the picture of a whipthin young male coachmen perched on the card in front of you irk you after sometime, knowing all to well that your alter ego, despite obstensibly being a 'coachman', is a alchoholic, overweight, halfling miscreant wishing she had never taken that debt of 20 crowns to the Stirling Coaches Company last winter to cover gambling debts?
I've heard some lodge the complaint that the pictures of the careers ruins the immersion for them (of course, they hadn't yet played the game, but that's neither here or there). The obvious rejoinder to that is what about the career portraits in the original v1 and v2? Did that somehow stifle your creativity in designing and imagining your character? Of course, they respond with "But that portrait wasn't on the table all the time." To be honest, I don't know what to say to that. If a player can't get past the portrait (or similarly that a miniature representing their character isn't perfect), then maybe roleplaying isn't their thing, or they're too serious a method actor for me. At our table, no one cares and it doesn't effect gameplay. Our Mercenary is a female dwarf, nevermind that the portrait is a human male. Hasn't held the player back in the slightest.
Noofy wrote: But what of my 1st ed storylines? What of running (once again) the ubiquitious 'Shadows over Bogenhafen'? Will it translate easily, or is the effort too much? Is there a 'blended' medium?
You can port them over pretty easily. Most folks take the tens digit from the old system and use that (so a strength of 41 in v2 becomes a 4 in v3). Skills work a little differently, but any decent GM should be able to translate characters and NPCs pretty easily. The one problem as it stands now is that because the career pool is limited, and power levels are limited, if you have high level characters/NPCs you want to convert, you would have to fudge the stats/skills/powers.
Noofy wrote: Can you retain the new dicepool mechanic with old school characters and skill collections? Could you throw in a d100 hit location roll or 'winds of chaos' corruption roll for 'effect' and not cause a huge halt in play? Can you wing it when your druid wants to call apon his version of Rhya the Mothe Goddess? Can you steal a chaos knight adversary you developed from 'Realms of Chaos' and hatch his new plans for spreading nurgles pestilence on an unsuspecting town?
I would say that after converting old characters (See above response) you could be off and running without issue. Again, the limitation is on career number and spells, etc. I have actually found it pretty easy (in my mind) to convert spells from v2 into v3 "Cards" complete with boon and bane effects. I've only translated a couple, but I thought the translation was pretty easy, kind of fun, but at the end of the day, it is work you would have to do until more supplements flesh it out. Likewise for mutants (there is no current, exhaustive list like there is in v2 Tome of Corruption) or other chaos related entities.
I find that all of my old source material is valuable, and that the mechanics conversion is pretty simple.
Noofy wrote: Can you add doomings / background development / quirks to 'newborn' characters without too much fuss? As Dick implies, the 'old' mechanics were integral to giving players the feel of the Old World.
You can add as much or as little as you want. I've given my players 3x5 cards to note down physical traits, doomings, etc. since there isn't room on the small, career focused sheets you are provided. There are also standard sized character sheets out there that other folks have put together that include some of those flavor components on them.
I've been very happy with my experience so far as a GM, though it did take me some work to learn the rules (building my sheets helped me to learn and will hopefully make it easier for others to adopt). But I didn't find it overly hard to learn in comparison with any of the other RPGs I've run over the last three decades. More importantly though? My players really like it, and I've brought a new member to both roleplaying and WFRP. That's a big win in my book.
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Jim Patching
United Kingdom
Cardiff
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Thanks for the review. I'd convinced myself that I didn't want this 3rd edition but after reading some positive reviews of it (and finding out that FFG's releasing a campaign for it early next year!) I've caved in and got it for Christmas.
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Mark Warren
United States
NASHVILLE
UNITED STATES
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Amazing review and thanks for taking the time to write it.
I would like to add another high mark for this game, one that I haven't seen mentioned in any review yet. The community.
No matter a systems background or capability, it is often made or broken by its community. Their support and inspiration are paramount to the health and longevity of the game.
The new WFRP community has gone through some tough times. They've put a lot of energy into convincing others not to dismiss WFRP out of hand. Many of them see the potential and are trying to demonstrate to others that there's a lot below the surface that is worth looking into.
A healthy and vibrant new community is emerging from the rubble of the edition war. There are experienced GMs from all over the world applying their techniques and inspiration to this new edition. New GMs and players that have never visited the WFRP setting are filtering in from a wide array of other games. New materials are being created on a daily basis. If there's a need for a mechanic, solutions are sometimes being created within moments of posting. It's amazing to watch.
The OP created a stunning GM screen for the game (I hope you post that here). Other players are flooding the community with tools. New fansites are popping up (like Hammerzeit). Every day or so there's a new 'I didn't want to like this game but now I'm hooked' post.
A games community can sometimes be as important as the game itself and this one is off to a good start. Salute to the growing fanbase of old and new players. May all your journeys in the Old World be as dark and dangerous as mine.
Nez
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William Hostman
United States
Eagle River
Alaska
Gaming in Greater Anchorage area, Alaska since 1978. Looking for Indy-willing RPG players in Eagle River (or willing to drive to Eagle River). Geekmail me if interested.
Yes, this really is what I looked like when I uploaded that avatar. Not that it's quite current anymore.
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Excellent review; I can see why you liked it...
I came away after a session hating it. For many of the elements that backgrounded for you quickly kept getting more intrusive as play proceeded, and the party stress mechanic merely made it more stresful for me as a player than I am willing to deal with.
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Jaime Lawrence
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
See Below.
Evil Bob: Lawful good since 2038!
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Great review!
I've got to say, I'm increasingly thrilled about this game. The buzz I'm hearing on RPGG is making me very excited to go buy it.
WHFRP has a special place in my heart as being the first RPG I ever played... Thanks to everyone who's contributed feedback for it!
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Leopold Vonbek
United States
Montana
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Nice review. My general impression is the game is a "Diamond in the rough".
It's chief failing IMO is not what it includes, but what it lacks.
GMs and players who are to impatient to wait for expainsions have a lot of work cut out for them.
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Scott H
United States
Hackettstown
New Jersey
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deadeyedick wrote:
As for myself, I initially spent only a little time thumbing through the various cards to get a sense of what they did and were like. I left the analysis to my players to go through the decks according to their character interests.
What I am saying is I don't have to know (or memorize) the rules attached to those cards - the players control that information and it appears when it's needed. I have to say, I like that over something like having a ton of feats that I should probably know because most players don't/won't write out the full details on the feat on their character sheet - by way of 1 example.
This specifically is great to hear. Any system where the knowledge is more evenly spread about and then shared as play goes on is a good one to me. I am tired of one person having to know everything while others know a few things here and there. It just causes a mess of confusion and often slows down the game drastically because the players don't really know what they can do at any one time. Unless of course they spent the time to read the entire book front to back (which most don't (in my group)).
That and the part about on the fly work being easier is excellent. I am very loose with rules in D&D/Pathfinder because I really hate breaking the fun to go look something up. If it is major I do, but if t is just something minor, I prefer to make up some kind of challenge on the fly. The fact that WFRP3 doesn't use numbers or rolling is great because it lessens the specificity required when designing things on the fly. Hearing that this is true is awesome. Great review and while the negatives are definitely negatives, for some people the mechanics and prevalence of player aids will outweigh them.
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Tim Collins
United States
Larkspur
California
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One of the better reviews I have read here for sure.
Thanks for posting.
I am very excited about this game and it has rekindled my interest in RPGs that blew out in the early 90s
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Tony Davison
Australia
Canberra
ACT
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Must say I find the reviews of folks who have actually played it (as opposed to those who just hate the idea of it) have been encouraging.
I am one of those who likes 'hands on' stuff in games, RPG or whatever - I have dabbled in D&D and still have my 1st edition Warhammer softcover on the shelf next to me as I write this.
I took the plunge earlier and am now waiting on Amazon to deliver - will be about 3 weeks here in Oz and saves around AUD$40 over a local purchase (which is kinda sad in itself).
Don't know who I will play it with (often happens with my games lol) - but looks like plenty to fiddle with - and another fishing tackle box needed for the chits - FFG have made me a major buyer of that bit of kit (looking at you Arkham Horror).
Anyway, thanks for this review - told me just what I needed to know to tip the scales.
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Thanks for the thoughtful review.
I fell out of gaming when I moved cross country, lost my group, and then started a small business. Recently I've been looking for the right game to help me jump back in rpging, as all the games I once played have either disappeared or changed pretty considerably while I was out of the hobby. If I have to completely re-learn how to play anyway... why not try something *completely* new? I think this controversial, innovative, downright alien new system is (potentially) the perfect gateway back in to gaming for me. Reviews like this one have really helped me get a grasp on what all this extra stuff on the table might mean for an actual roleplaying (as opposed to rollplaying) experience, so I bought the big box and am excited about the possibilities.
Hopefully I'll be able to find a group to play with soon!
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Dead Eye Dick
United States
San Francisco
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theisotope wrote: ... so I bought the big box and am excited about the possibilities.
Hopefully I'll be able to find a group to play with soon!
Have you been able to setup a game group yet? I'd love to hear about your experience.
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deadeyedick wrote: Have you been able to setup a game group yet? I'd love to hear about your experience.
Sadly, my big Warhammer 3rd Edition box is still sitting around the house un-played (sigh)! After a couple months trying to find a group of nice people to play WHFR with, it's something of a bust so far. Without a regular group I think the whole "I'll just go straight to this crazy new Warhammer game" plan was maybe putting the cart just a bit before the donkey.
So I went the more traditional route and found a group of nice folks (that are mostly new to pen and paper rpgs) who are putting together a 4th Edition D&D game. We start this week so that should be fun. I'm trying to get myself back into the hobby so I'm not ready to jump back into *running* a game yet, but hopefully by the time those DMs get burned out I'll have dusted off my rpg cobwebs and I'll be able to entice them into trying out some Warhammer 3rd Edition with me. Or... if someone ends up running a one-off WHFR at one of my local SF Bay Area cons I'm all over that. KublaCon is coming up & I've been keeping my eyes on the "Scheduled Games" section!
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Posted Wed Dec 9, 2009 7:10 pm
