UA Darth
United States
Garwood
New Jersey
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I ordered from Florida multiple times and NJ. I don't care about shipping times, because the inventory and prices were the best. Closer to me is good.
Thoughthammer's prices are outrageous. Boulder barely stocks anything. Boardsandbits is generally where I go. When I lived in Florida I ordered equally from B&B and coolstuff, who is also decent. Ship times just don't bother me. I am not super anal like many here.
West coast whiners should be ashamed of themselves. Selfish. An extra day or 2 to shipping and you freak out? Get a grip.
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UA Darth
United States
Garwood
New Jersey
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UndeadViking wrote: fnord23 wrote: For whatever values of "kind, helpful, and awesome" you are referring to, only a small minority of BGG users are going to fit that Are you sure we are both using the same website? Is there some page you go to where all the jerks hang out? Sure, I have run into a couple of internet a-holes on BGG but the vast majority of everyone I have dealt with on this site has been at the very least decent and respectful, and at the very best a seemingly wonderful human being. And seriously, I know how much it sucks to have a long time to wait for games to be shipped to me. I live in the northern midwest where it takes a minimum of 3 days to get anything sent to me, and most of the time at least 5. I would be stung a bit too if I had had B&B close by and then they moved off, but even in the grand scheme of boardgame retailers, is it really that big of a deal? Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them.
Have you ever tried trying to trade here? Only 1/10 respond... Pretty nasty if you ask me.
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Eric Landes
United States
Hillsboro
Oregon
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shadow9d9 wrote: West coast whiners should be ashamed of themselves. Selfish. An extra day or 2 to shipping and you freak out? Get a grip.
The problem isn't an extra day or two. It's just another data point in an ongoing pattern - West Coast loses out to East Coast again. For some people, it's become a complex.
I refer you to claims of "east coast media bias" and other similar complaints. Belief that people east of the Mississippi don't know there are two Washingtons, and the other one has more people. Etc. It gets played up in local commercials out here all the time.
One of these days, someone's going to figure out how to create a business model of focusing on the West Coast first.
This does have the effect, for me, of dropping B&B into the realm of "same as everyone else" when it comes to ordering.
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Mike Thompson
United States
Chicago
Illinois
Valar Morghulis
Valar Dohaeris
-
I will add my voice to the chorus of those expressing confusion at how this move can make such a big difference to those on the west coast. Even when I lived in Virginia, my friends and I bought almost exclusively from B&B (who had only a Washington warehouse). Their customer service has always been stellar. Their prices are almost uniformly better than even CSI, Boulder, and Thoughthammer. Stock levels and speed of getting new releases aren't always the best, but this change can only improve that.
And Tom, I hope you know that almost no one else thinks like Fnord. You can't please them all of course, but almost everyone else realizes you're a good guy and a fair businessman.
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Mike Thompson
United States
Chicago
Illinois
Valar Morghulis
Valar Dohaeris
-
Basilius wrote: It's just another data point in an ongoing pattern - West Coast loses out to East Coast again. For some people, it's become a complex.
I refer you to claims of "east coast media bias" and other similar complaints. Belief that people east of the Mississippi don't know there are two Washingtons, and the other one has more people. Etc. It gets played up in local commercials out here all the time.
One of these days, someone's going to figure out how to create a business model of focusing on the West Coast first.
As someone who has lived in the midwest (chiefly Iowa) for most of my life, I find this claim amusing.
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TX WA
United States
Snoqualmie
Washington
-
fnord23 wrote: For whatever values of "kind, helpful, and awesome" you are referring to, only a small minority of BGG users are going to fit that...
shadow9d9 wrote: Have you ever tried trying to trade here? Only 1/10 respond... Pretty nasty if you ask me.
Well, I guess I'm pretty lucky that the few folks that I've interacted with for these 10+ years have been of the cool variety. From sending me original copies of manuals for free when an old game I bought didn't have them, to including free extra figs in an order simply because the order that I bought was sent out a day late, the BGGers that I've randomly chatted with have all been awesome individuals and have all gone above and beyond to continue to support all who enjoy this niche pastime. Call me lucky then. Guess I should go buy one of those new Powerball tickets they now sell here in Washington.
fnord23 wrote: ...and let's not forget to point out the irony of someone de-lurking and jumping into the fray to point the finger accusingly at someone else...pot, kettle. 
I don't mind delurking and sinking to your level since Tom can't. Someone should stand up for him and I'm actually surprised it's me. I can gloss over ragging on a game or saying someone's game strategy is full of giant, Godzilla-sized holes. That's all in effort to make the game/gameplay better. That's one thing, but to attack a guy's way of putting bread on his table and saying "I told you so" is another.
It's like you're at someone's party and his kid is making a mess on your shoes. You wait for the folks to say something, but they don't do anything so you take it because you don't want to reprimand someone else's kid at their party in front of their guests. Tom's the guy who's shoes are getting crapped on, fnord23's the kid. As a guy with a business of selling games on a site about games, Tom can't "old-school smack" the kid because he needs to keep a level of civility to current and future customers. I, on the other hand, don't. It's not my party, not my kid, and not my shoes and really don't party much, just really came for the free snacks (whoo, sorry, I go analogy crazy a bit). I don't mind popping in, chit-chatting with some folks, playing a game or two, grabbing a couple handfuls of free cookies and munchies, smacking a kid upside the head for not using the proper facilities, then leaving (more analogies... I blame the snacks, sugar goes straight to my head).
UndeadViking wrote: Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them.
If evidence to Tom's "lies" are solidly produced, I'm man enough to say, "My bad. Tom you really were the douche, not fnord23. Sorry fnord23, you really were the man and I offer up my shoes to be sullied." But until then, all I see is one guy bulling another guy... and I hate bullies and don't mind standing up for those who can't fight back. Dang Boy Scouts instilling me with values! Rats, and I really did just want to be a perpetual lurker...
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John Bohrer
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
-
I have been buying from B&B for years and I find their Customer Service excellent. Good luck with the move!
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Lance
United States
Moorhead
Minnesota
The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father
Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever
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shadow9d9 wrote: UndeadViking wrote: fnord23 wrote: For whatever values of "kind, helpful, and awesome" you are referring to, only a small minority of BGG users are going to fit that Are you sure we are both using the same website? Is there some page you go to where all the jerks hang out? Sure, I have run into a couple of internet a-holes on BGG but the vast majority of everyone I have dealt with on this site has been at the very least decent and respectful, and at the very best a seemingly wonderful human being. And seriously, I know how much it sucks to have a long time to wait for games to be shipped to me. I live in the northern midwest where it takes a minimum of 3 days to get anything sent to me, and most of the time at least 5. I would be stung a bit too if I had had B&B close by and then they moved off, but even in the grand scheme of boardgame retailers, is it really that big of a deal? Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them. Have you ever tried trying to trade here? Only 1/10 respond... Pretty nasty if you ask me.
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but the few trades I have been involved in have been courteous and pleasant, with ample discussion both ways, even if the other party was not interested in my offer.
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Silas Hilliard
United States
Seattle
Washington
-
That's too bad. I only recently discovered the site and was thrilled about the prospect of getting games at great prices without worrying about shipping costs the next time I head across the state. Oh well, I guess I'll have to rely on purchasing large amounts of games simultaneously from now on.
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jonathanWC
United States
Missoula
Montana
-
My initial reaction might have been a bit too knee jerk-ish. I can't honestly say that I'll never use B&B again. But I did like the fact that my money is going to a business only 3 hours from me and not back east.
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Claudio Campuzano
United States
Portland
Oregon
-
We'll miss you out west. Good luck. I'll probably still buy from y'all, assuming prices and customer service stay the same. I can wait an extra day for new games. Heck, I could play some of my unplayed games while I wait...
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Boards & Bits
United States
Spokane Valley
Washington
-
KSensei wrote: My initial reaction might have been a bit too knee jerk-ish. I can't honestly say that I'll never use B&B again. But I did like the fact that my money is going to a business only 3 hours from me and not back east.
As I mentioned, I will still be here in Spokane, so the millions of dollars I make each year will still be funneling back here 
Tom
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Matt Smith
United States
Orion
Michigan
-
Tom has always been very responsive and helpful. He was the only OLGS rep to look into carrying the Galaxy Trucker Compatibility Pack when it was first announced by CGE.
Even though I had to wait 4 days when they only had a WA whse, B&B was my first choice of OLGS. Toledo is awesome for me, but I wouldn't shop there if the service was bad.
Congrats, Tom, and keep up the good work!
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Andrew Kreps
United States
Illinois
-
BartowWing wrote: This is the essence of the matter for me as well. Tom decided to go with Ohio as a business decision. He knows he will lose business from the west coast but thinks he will get more from the east. It's his business decision. No biggie.
It seems like a good decision to me and here's why:
While I'm not sure how old this information is (and am too lazy to look it up right now), I've read that a bit over 80% of the country lives in the Central and Eastern time zones. The Ohio warehouse is pretty ideally located in that region.
If you look at the estimated delivery time page on the B&B website, the WA site has 4 or 5 day delivery to most of the Central and Eastern time zones. The OH site has at most 3 day to this area and only a small portion of the country has 5 day delivery.
So from a mathematical perspective, it seems Tom has decided to minimize shipping times to as many potential customers as possible. I hope it works out for him but understand why some customers would be saddened.
--A2K
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UA Darth
United States
Garwood
New Jersey
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Basilius wrote: shadow9d9 wrote: West coast whiners should be ashamed of themselves. Selfish. An extra day or 2 to shipping and you freak out? Get a grip. The problem isn't an extra day or two. It's just another data point in an ongoing pattern - West Coast loses out to East Coast again. For some people, it's become a complex. I refer you to claims of "east coast media bias" and other similar complaints. Belief that people east of the Mississippi don't know there are two Washingtons, and the other one has more people. Etc. It gets played up in local commercials out here all the time. One of these days, someone's going to figure out how to create a business model of focusing on the West Coast first. This does have the effect, for me, of dropping B&B into the realm of "same as everyone else" when it comes to ordering.
You guys have all the actors and therefore, tons of sci fi cons and auctions(BSG/Farscape/Firefly/etc)... you have the best weather in the country.. what else do you need!?
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UA Darth
United States
Garwood
New Jersey
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UndeadViking wrote: shadow9d9 wrote: UndeadViking wrote: fnord23 wrote: For whatever values of "kind, helpful, and awesome" you are referring to, only a small minority of BGG users are going to fit that Are you sure we are both using the same website? Is there some page you go to where all the jerks hang out? Sure, I have run into a couple of internet a-holes on BGG but the vast majority of everyone I have dealt with on this site has been at the very least decent and respectful, and at the very best a seemingly wonderful human being. And seriously, I know how much it sucks to have a long time to wait for games to be shipped to me. I live in the northern midwest where it takes a minimum of 3 days to get anything sent to me, and most of the time at least 5. I would be stung a bit too if I had had B&B close by and then they moved off, but even in the grand scheme of boardgame retailers, is it really that big of a deal? Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them. Have you ever tried trying to trade here? Only 1/10 respond... Pretty nasty if you ask me. I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but the few trades I have been involved in have been courteous and pleasant, with ample discussion both ways, even if the other party was not interested in my offer.
It is pretty well documented that for every 10 gms sent out regarding trade only 1-3/10 will respond. Once a trade is started, it is smooth, but getting people to respond the first time isn't easy.
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(ʇllıʍ)
United States
Spokane Valley
Washington
-
 My average delivery time will be over 500 times longer! Instead of 10 minutes to drive to the warehouse and back, I'll have to wait 4 days. This is even worse than when B&B moved from near Sullivan Road to near Park Road, which increased my drive time from 5 minutes to 10. And don't get me started on the increase in the cost of shipping!
Good luck Tom, I have really appreciated having your shop right down the road. Your service and prices are always top-notch. Even with these exorbitant increases in shipping times and prices,  will still get my business whenever possible.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
-
shadow9d9 wrote: It is pretty well documented that for every 10 gms sent out regarding trade only 1-3/10 will respond. Once a trade is started, it is smooth, but getting people to respond the first time isn't easy.
Documented by whom? I've made 50+ trades here, all successful. If you make reasonable offers, and make them to people with a solid trade history, you'll get a reasonable response rate and do fine.
And if you really want to debate this, it would be better to start a new thread than to hijack this one.
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Lance
United States
Moorhead
Minnesota
The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father
Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever
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shadow9d9 wrote: UndeadViking wrote: shadow9d9 wrote: UndeadViking wrote: fnord23 wrote: For whatever values of "kind, helpful, and awesome" you are referring to, only a small minority of BGG users are going to fit that Are you sure we are both using the same website? Is there some page you go to where all the jerks hang out? Sure, I have run into a couple of internet a-holes on BGG but the vast majority of everyone I have dealt with on this site has been at the very least decent and respectful, and at the very best a seemingly wonderful human being. And seriously, I know how much it sucks to have a long time to wait for games to be shipped to me. I live in the northern midwest where it takes a minimum of 3 days to get anything sent to me, and most of the time at least 5. I would be stung a bit too if I had had B&B close by and then they moved off, but even in the grand scheme of boardgame retailers, is it really that big of a deal? Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them. Have you ever tried trying to trade here? Only 1/10 respond... Pretty nasty if you ask me. I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but the few trades I have been involved in have been courteous and pleasant, with ample discussion both ways, even if the other party was not interested in my offer. It is pretty well documented that for every 10 gms sent out regarding trade only 1-3/10 will respond. Once a trade is started, it is smooth, but getting people to respond the first time isn't easy.
This has not been my experience. Maybe I am just lucky. Where can I find this documentation?
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UA Darth
United States
Garwood
New Jersey
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Sphere wrote: shadow9d9 wrote: It is pretty well documented that for every 10 gms sent out regarding trade only 1-3/10 will respond. Once a trade is started, it is smooth, but getting people to respond the first time isn't easy. Documented by whom? I've made 50+ trades here, all successful. If you make reasonable offers, and make them to people with a solid trade history, you'll get a reasonable response rate and do fine. And if you really want to debate this, it would be better to start a new thread than to hijack this one.
I've made 69+ trades. Had to submit well more than 250 GMs to get them. It is well documented in the trade forums.
From 2 seconds of searching:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/493432/why-dont-people-respo...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/483304/trading-i-dont-get-it...
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
-
shadow9d9 wrote: From 2 seconds of searching:
Anecdotal evidence from a few complainers doesn't constitute documentation of a percentage. Sorry. And that's the last I'll say on that subject in this thread.
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Jonathan
United States
Mankato
Minnesota
-
I'm still trying to work out how not responding to a trade request could be considered nasty behaviour?
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Sue Hemberger
Washington
Dist of Columbia
-
Actually, I think B&B will still do quite well if they fall in the "same as everyone else" category for most buyers. As someone who shops based on price and selection, I've watched B&B take an ever-increasing share of my online gaming purchases over the past few years, even while their warehouse was at the opposite end of the country in the other (aka "wrong"* ) Washington.
Personally, I'd like to see the FOGS market remain competitive, but I don't deliberately spread my purchasing around. I've responded to changes in price, selection (including who gets which new stuff first), and shipping policies. Cumulatively, B&B keeps moving ahead in my personal market share sweepstakes (and coolstuff is now increasingly in the mix -- hmm, now that I think about it, that may have started in response to parts of my desired order being split between the OH and WA warehouses...).
*did I mention I'm an ex-pat Californian as well as an Ohio native, LOL? And my New England born and raised husband will testify that the TV weather maps he grew up with never showed anything beyond Chicago.
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Chris Johnson
United States
Azusa
California
One of Alabama 3's finest songs, especially the versions on the single this image is from...
Sweet Pretty M*th*rf*ck*ng Country Acid House Music - All night long!
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Sorry to stick my head back in, but there is one serious point that needs to be addressed...but first:
That's one of the things I love about BGG, if you don't fellate the right person *just* riiiiiggggght, you're eeeeevil, and must be piled on.
I haven't done anything in this thread beyond pointing out that Tom is going to lose some people's business, that there are other people who do what he does comparably well, and he that he just gave up a certain part of his competitive advantage for a sizeable chunk of his customers.
I've also pointed out his history of, ummm..."strenuous" efforts at spinning things, and his history of finding customers' actual experiences "incorrect". I also don't take kindly to implicitly being called a liar, *especially* based on information from an organization known for lying.
None of that is worthy of the insults and lynch-mob mentality that has been shown here, but don't let that stop y'all.
texaswashington wrote: UndeadViking wrote: Oh, and I would like to actually see a post of Tom's somewhere, anywhere, where he blatantly lied to a customer and you can prove that without relying on unverifiable fact. I say this in all seriousness because a fair amount of my gaming dollar goes to Tom and if this is true, I would rather not support his company when there are other retailers that have not had allegations like this levied against them. If evidence to Tom's "lies" are solidly produced, I'm man enough to say, "My bad. Tom you really were the douche, not fnord23. Sorry fnord23, you really were the man and I offer up my shoes to be sullied." But until then, all I see is one guy bulling another guy... and I hate bullies and don't mind standing up for those who can't fight back. Dang Boy Scouts instilling me with values! Rats, and I really did just want to be a perpetual lurker...
Here's the point that needs to be made:
No one, not even evil ol' me, has accused Tom of lying in public, so let's put this little canard to bed now, OK? (Having to point that out does make me question some people's reading comprehension, though, and *that* may well explain some of the vituperation in the thread...) ;P
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
-
fnord23 wrote: I've also pointed out his history of, ummm..."strenuous" efforts at spinning things...
fnord23 wrote: No one, not even evil ol' me, has accused Tom of lying in public
What kind of mind puts both those statements in the same post? You're out of touch with reality, dude. Seriously.
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Posted Wed Mar 3, 2010 6:34 pm
