$10.00
Recommend
34 
 Thumb up
 Hide
38 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Abstract Games» Forums » General

Subject: Gipf! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: Punct [+] Gipf [+] Yinsh [+] Zertz [+] Dvonn [+] Tamsk [+] Tzaar [+] [View All]
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
We are not now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
badge
There is hope.
mbmbmbmbmb
How would you rank the gipf series in descending order from greatest to least?
....And why?

1. Tamsk


It plays quickly, is immensely tactical, and forces players to make tough decisions in a self timed environment. You need a plan, you need to stay flexible, and you need to decide now!

2. Dvonn

Variable setup conditions means you can implement a strategy before the game begins and provides nice replayability. Interesting win condition takes the game into the 3rd dimension and punishes the inattentive.

3. Punct

Punct and yinsh can essentially be flip-flopped for me. I enjoy them both. Punct is a great connection game because, similar to Dvonn, it takes things into the 3rd dimension. This game rewards very aggressive play and the slogan 'a good defense is a great offense' never applied more.

4 Yinsh

I enjoy Othello, and this game includes a touch of it combined with enough variability to keep this fresh after many plays. Variable setup, increasing challenge as you come close to winning, built in balancing mechanism - excellence.

5. Gipf

The namesake. Its an interesting concept and very challenging to implement. The game seems counterintuitive in many ways.tough to grasp and just not as fun as its brethren. I suspect there are some who would push for the series to be called 'The Yinsh Project'

6. Zertz

Counterintuitive to the max. I also suck at it.

X. Tzaar

I have yet to play the mysterious replacment cousin. @ersonally I don't think the 'Tamsk divorce' was justified. The series had all elements covered -

Gipf - Land
Dvonn - Fire
Zertz - Water
Yinsh - Air
Punct - Spirit
Tamsk - Time
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
...sure...
Netherlands
Rijen
Noord Brabant
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1. YINSH
2. GIPF
3. PÜNCT
4. TAMSK
5. DVONN
6. ZÈRTZ
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Di Ponio
United States
Warren
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Dvonn
2. Gipf
3. Yinsh
4. Zertz
5. Tamsk

X. Punct - don't own it yet!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Woll
United States
Warsaw
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am definitely playing TAMSK with you sometime Eric!

1. ZERTZ

When I first started playing the GIPF series, this one was my favorite. After many, many plays it still remains at the top. I find it very intuitive - the idea of forced captures is easy for me to grasp. After TAMSK it seems to me to be the easiest to teach.

2. TAMSK

I pride myself on my ability to think quickly, and I really enjoy abstracts so this game is a match made in heaven for me. I can't understand why it was taken out of the official GIPF canon.

3. YINSH

I was never really a fan of Othello (Reversi) but mainly because I wasn't very good at it. I like the added blocking power the rings give you in YINSH.

4. TZARR

I've only played this one a few time, but I've really enjoyed it. It seems to have high replay value, and some unique machanics.

5. GIPF

This one I'm probably the worst at, but at least I understand the strategy. It always seems to me like the board should be smaller because all the action takes place at one end, or the outsides with the middle hardly ever getting used. Maybe there's something there I'm missing though.

6. DVONN

When I first played this one, I hated it. I find it very non-intuitive. It would seem that climbing on top of the largest stacks is a good idea but it's much better to keep your pieces on little stacks so they are more mobile. That's just one of the faults in my game I discovered when I started playing this on BSW and Boardspace, where I would consistently get slaughtered. Until then I wasn't even sure there was a lot of strategy to the game. It has gone up in my estimation since then, and I can even beat the bot on Boardspace about 50% of the time now.

7. PUNCT

I've only played this once, and I don't remember much about it. I remember thinking I did very well against the bot at Boardspace which either means the game doesn't have a lot of depth or that it's very intuitive.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
My current ratings for them:
TZAAR = 9
DVONN = 8
GIPF = 8
YINSH = 7
ZERTZ = 7
PUNCT = 6
TAMSK = 4

TZAAR and DVONN are somewhat similar, and TZAAR feels more natural and beautiful to me (more symmetric board) and more open. The opening of DVONN feels opaque to me; it's too hard (for me at least) to read ahead anything useful.

GIPF is really simple and classic in its rules.

YINSH is pleasing. The slightly irregular notched corners of the playing grid slightly irritate me.

ZERTZ is neat, but it has the problem of "the trick". Once someone understands the specific tactic of the forced jumps and sacrifices and gets the skill to read ahead such sequences, they become immeasurably stronger than players who don't grok it. I.e. the skill levels don't progress very continually - there's a huge quantum jump.

PUNCT feels less elegant with the various shaped pieces. But I would like to play it more; I don't know it that well.

TAMSK: I'm not a fan of the timers, what can I say? They seem completely out of place in this kind of pure strategy game, like putting a dexterity or trivia or acting element into it.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniël Muilwijk
Netherlands
Zeist
Utrecht
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
1. DVONN & TZAAR
3. YINSH
4. ZÈRTZ
5. PÜNCT

Not played yet: GIPF & TAMSK
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Gola
United States
Redding
Connecticut
flag msg tools
and everything under the sun is in tune
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Dvonn
2. Gipf
3. Tzaar
4. Pünct
5. Tamsk
6. Yinsh
7. Zertz

I've played Dvonn a lot online and I find it to be very rewarding. It has a nice learning curve and a lot of depth, but the shrinking board means that games never drag on too long.

Numbers 2 to 4 (Gipf, Tzaar, Pünct) are all pretty close, ranking-wise; they're all just about equally enjoyable to me. Gipf is really at its best when you're playing the tournament rules. I've also played a couple of games with the potential expansions and I'm really eager to do this some more. Tzaar is similar to Dvonn, so naturally that appeals to me. Pünct can be a very "sneaky" game, more so than any other abstract I've played; you can make it seem as if your are heading toward one goal but really be heading toward another.

I find Tamsk very enjoyable, and sometimes I wonder if maybe the people who rate it so poorly just don't get it. It's not just an abstract with time pressure; in fact, it can sometimes happen that you hope that your opponent will take a long time with his or her move.

I like Yinsh, but I find the game somewhat exhausting; so much can change from move to move, it's very hard to keep track of all the possibilities in your head.

Zertz is a fine game, but the need to memorize moves and patterns isn't quite to my taste.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A L D A R O N
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
A L D A R O N
badge
+++++[>+++++++++++++.>++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++.--------.---.+++++++++++++++++.---.-.
mb
1. Tzaar
2. Yinsh
3. Dvonn
4. Gipf
5. Pünct
6. Zertz
7. Tamsk

Actually, the exercise of making this list reminds me of how good they all are.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luiz Flavio Ribeiro
Brazil
Pouso Alegre
MG
flag msg tools
mbmb

1. Dvonn
2. Tzaar
3. Yinsh
4. Gipf
5. Zèrtz

Not played yet: Pünct and Tamsk
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
That's insame.
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1. YINSH- My favorite game! I love how the board is always so dynamic, yet there are still great opportunities for planning and there is always lots of blocking going on. I love the balancing mechanism: you lose a ring when you get closer to winning. Very accessible to non-gamers as well.

2. TZAAR- Great game with lots of opportunities for strategy. I like how you have to pay attention to all three types of pieces, as well as the ability to capture to win. I have had great experiences when introducing this to non-gamers too.

3. ZERTZ- Very intriguing game. Every turn feels like a puzzle to be solved, and sometimes there are very long sequences of forced moves. This one is not so accessible though, because it is very counter-intuitive. If one player "gets" it and the other doesn't, or if one player is much better than the other player, the game won't be very enjoyable.

4. DVONN- Has some beautiful counter-intuitive tactics. Game relies too much on the setup phase for my tastes and is the hardest GIPF game to grasp besides ZERTZ.

5. PUNCT- Still figuring out this one as I have only played it a few times, on Board space.net. Almost a pseudo connection game in that the tactics are very different from other connection games, which for me is a good thing. Feels the most like YINSH for some reason.

6. GIPF- Interesting concept and the purest of the project GIPF games. This one is very intriguing but it is hard for me to understand the strategy. I think that it would be excellent with potentials. I have to play this more to really enjoy it.

I love them all though!

Haven't played TAMSK yet but it sounds awesome; sadly it's very difficult to locate a copy since it is long out of print.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harald Korneliussen
Norway
flag msg tools
nswoll wrote:

7. PUNCT

I've only played this once, and I don't remember much about it. I remember thinking I did very well against the bot at Boardspace which either means the game doesn't have a lot of depth or that it's very intuitive.


I haven't been to boardspace for a while (not for any good reason, it's a great site!), but last time I looked, the Punct AI was no match for a human. The game tree is just too big in that game.

My list:

1. Zèrtz. Played it a bit on Boardspace, came across Stephen Tavener's excellent article, and went from losing against dumbbot to winning against - well, Stephen Tavener to name one Kris Burm to name another cool (I'm not actually _better_ than any of them, though, just good enough to win sometimes on the very-nearly human solvable basic size board). You haven't _really_ played this game before going from 0 to 4 white marbles in one big sequence of forced moves.

2. 3. 4. 5. Tzaar, Punct, Dvonn, Yinsh, not in any particular order. I like all of them. Probably a bit better at Punct, though. Games where pieces "cover" for each other in various ways, Chess players will usually beat me.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. Deniz Bucak
United States
Havertown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
As Above, So Below
badge
My books are forgeries. Nobody wrote them. - Philip K. Dick
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Tzaar
2. Yinsh
3. Dvonn
4. Gipf
5. Punct
6. Zertz

I haven't played Tamsk. Zertz I dislike because it makes my head hurt. Punct, I've only played once, so I can't really judge it. With Tzaar I like the tension of the capture vs. stack decision.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justus Pendleton
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm one of those that also thinks TAMSK is cruelly under-rated. I think it is punished in the ratings because the intersection of "people who like abstracts" and "people who like playing under time pressure" is probably pretty small when it comes to the kind of casual gaming that BGG generally represents.

I like ZERTZ -- I think I have fond-ness for games where the pieces form a board -- but I agree with others that it seems to lend itself to crushing victories more than others in the series. I read the explanation of how to always win if your opponent places their first piece along the edge. I don't remember the exact sequence of moves anymore but it opened my eyes to "how to play" ZERTZ. I'm not any good compared to most people, I reckon, but I'm enough better than my girlfriend that I crush her every time we play which unfortunately makes it not much fun for either one of us.

1. TAMSK
2. ZERTZ
3. DVONN
4. YINSH
5. GIPF
(?) PUNCT
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A L D A R O N
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
A L D A R O N
badge
+++++[>+++++++++++++.>++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++.--------.---.+++++++++++++++++.---.-.
mb
dbucak wrote:
1. Tzaar
2. Yinsh
3. Dvonn
4. Gipf
5. Punct
6. Zertz

Exactly my ordering!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Howe
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
flag msg tools
In order:
gipf
tzaar
yinsh
dvonn
punct
zertz

But i think the whole series is overrated. Not bad, just overrated. There are many abstracts I would rank higher than Gipf.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Everett Warren
United States
Marietta
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb


1. GIPF - first, at least in part, because I've been playing it the longest. Even so, I've barely moved into experimenting with the full game, let alone bringing in potentials from the rest of the project. That sense of levels ~ of mastering it and then moving on up and redefining what can happen with the addition of GIPF pieces and the others ~ is what keeps it on top for me.

2. YINSH - this one catapulted right to the top. I love the way this one has grown in the few games I've played so far. While all the games have a simplistic beauty in the components, I particularly like moving and flipping these pieces...

3. ZERTZ - I really enjoy the forced captures and the dynamics that can come about while playing this one.

4. TZAAR - I need to play this a lot more, but I think it will remain holding down the middle.

5. TAMSK - The Pluto of the GIPF project. I understand why it has its detractors, but I still feel it fits well with the other games.

6. DVONN - I'm starting to get a clue on this one, but I need a lot more time with it.

7. PUNCT - The newest introduction to me, and thus the one I'm least comfortable with. Still and all, I consider myself a chess fan, and I expect I'd rank even this one down here at the bottom of the list a little bit higher than chess.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Olson
United States
Topeka
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Tzaar
Yinsh
Dvonn
Gipf
Zertz
Punct

This is just how much I've enjoyed them. No particular reason why one is better than another. I do enjoy all of them.


Haven't played Tamsk.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stefan Daniels
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
DVONN ~ In my limited opinion, this is the most strategic GIPF game, and also my favorite. This was not always so as I really couldn't see any strategy for about the first 15-30 games or so.

TZAAR ~ I really, really like how blindingly quickly this game plays out. And yet, it feels much heavier and deeper than the limited length would suggest.

YINSH ~ This game is 'the' GIPF game I bring out first when introducing people to the entire range of GIPF games. The only possible downside is that it can be a more lengthy game than what I'm looking for at the time.

ZERTZ ~ I really like how this makes my brain feel; rung-out and frusterated... but in a good way.

TAMSK ~ This IS part of the GIPF project, no matter what Burm says.

PUNCT ~ I think that this is a great connect-opposite-sides game. I just don't like COS games so it sits at the bottom.

GIPF ~ never played.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Maxwell
United States
Burtchville
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just off the cuff:

1. YINSH: It's really easy to teach, full of interesting tactical decisions. It's also very aesthetically pleasing, and I like the feel of the pieces.

2. ZERTZ: Strange game, unique. It took the longest for me to grasp the basics of the game, but once I did I fell in love with ZERTZ. Also highly portable.

3. TAMSK: I'm a fan. The simple rules, tactical gameplay and limited time to make a decision make the game quick and brutal. Again, it's also eye-catching.

4. DVONN: I've only gotten a few plays of this, but am definitely interested in more. It's just starting to open up to me. Fascinating game.

5. TZAAR: My first GIPF game. I like the multiple win conditions. You have to careful not to focus on one and take your eye off the other.

6. PUNCT: I've only had 2 plays of this, and I find it intriguing. Needs further exploration.

7. GIPF: My wife and I only played this once, so take my ranking with a grain of salt. It just didn't seem as intuitive or fun as the others. I'm definitely open to playing it more though. Being the worst GIPF game is still better than many, many games out there.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reach 93
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1, DVONN
2, GIPF
3, YINSH
4, ZERTZ
5, TZAAR
6, TAMSK
7, PUNCT

Top 5 are extremely good, some of the best games ever created in my opinion. DVONN and GIPF are beautiful, elegant and mindbending, although it took quite a few plays for me to fully appreciate these qualities in GIPF.

TAMSK is ok, but not on the same level as the rest, and I derive no fun whatsoever from playing PUNCT (although I wish I did!)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
Plaatsvervangende Schaamte
badge
mbmbmb
I am amused that no one orders them the same as the 'community' rating (which is as of this posting):

1. Yinsh
2. Dvonn
3. Tzaar
4. Zertz
5. Gipf
6. Punct
7. Tamsk
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
Plaatsvervangende Schaamte
badge
mbmbmb
My personal preferences:

1. Yinsh - I loved Connect 4 as a kid. I played hours of it (by myself if necessary). My next love was Othello. A game that is an n-in-a-row and has flipping pieces? A natural for me.

2. Tzaar - I think this is one of the simpler games in the series, but there is something compelling in it for me. I like the choice for the second part of your move. Attack, Consolidate, or nothing?

3. Gipf - The first of the series I played. A very solid game and very deep. Feels like it has the most depth of the series.

4. Punct - The first of the least for me. A very diffent game for the series. The only one not to use round pieces. I haven't played this very often and I feel like I have not had the 'A ha!' moment for this one yet.

5. Dvonn - This game feels very dry to me. More of a graph theory homework assignment than a game.

6. Zertz - This game feels very close to solved to me. While Tzaar and Dvonn are also very solvable, with the forced capture rules in Zertz make me feel like I am not participating. In Dvonn I at least have the illusion of participation even if my opponent has solved the position.

7. Tamsk - Feels like a graph trace problem. The hour glasses were intriguing at first, but after a couple of plays, they didn't feel like they added a lot.

Edit: Fixed numbering
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Heidenreich
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
MilwaukeeTEG
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't played them all but at this time this is my order.

GIPF - It reminds me a bit of Abalone (which I played alot back in the late 80's) with the pushing. I 'get' this one more than some of the others as I feel I can see a few moves ahead.

ZERTZ - It starts off good but it gets brain frying intense as the board shrinks. I think I have played this one the most

YINSH - I suck at this but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it.

TAMSK - I like the time aspect of it. It gets tough.

DVONN - Haven't played in awhile...not quite sure of the strategy but need to play more.

PUNCT - Played once, maybe twice. No real opinion on it yet.

TZAAR - Haven't played yet.

Regardless, I have enjoyed all of the games of this that I have played. They play well and they look great.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Cooper
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
1. TZAAR - Perhaps part of my reason for putting this at the top is because it is new. Aside from that, I really like the aspect of having to keep track of each of the three different types of pieces. I also really enjoy the whole height element. Although most of my games have ended due to somebody losing all of one type of piece, I enjoy that I can strive to win by forcing my opponent to not have a capture available as their first move.

2. YINSH - I really love the beauty of this game. The tough decisions as to which direction to go and how to jump. If you aren't looking enough moves ahead the game can change in a hurry. This one will always be at the top of the list for me.

3. ZERTZ - I guess I probably like this one because it is harder to wrap your head around. Even though I warn people about this upfront, players get stuck in the mindset that they are forcing me to jump, and totally forget that I have two options. I really like the aspect that I have to give you something to get something in return. In this game you can't wait for somebody to make a bad move and give you a free piece, you have to give a little and hopefully make up a lot on the flip-side, very interesting to me.

4. TAMSK - This one is the easiest to teach to people and I love the timed aspect of it. It forces you to think quickly and I like that kind of a challenge from time to time. This is often the first one I break out when introducing people to the GIPF project, even though it's not officially part of it anymore.

5. GIPF - Yeah, this one is fairly low on my list. Part of the reason is because it is hard to find anybody to really play this one with. There are too many different angles that you can attack with and new players won't recognize this very quickly. I just don't have enough abstract players around me to get the enjoyment out of this game that I could otherwise. If I could get more plays this would probably move up.

6. DVONN - Interesting concept having to keep yourself tied to those three red pieces. The way the movement works is kind of cool too. I just don't think this one is as enjoyable as the others, so it rarely gets played.

7. PUNCT - I really don't enjoy this one at all. It feels too much like Chinese Checkers to me. Yeah, there is the whole stacking element that adds a little variety, but this one just didn't do anything for me and I haven't played it since I first bought it. Maybe I should give it another chance.

All in all, this is a great series. My only regret in owning them all is that I don't have the chance to play them enough. My wife doesn't like abstracts and I don't find myself needing a game for only 2 players all that often. Maybe when my kids get old enough I can get them into this, of course after starting them off with chess.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jevon Heath
United States
Berkeley
California
flag msg tools
Go on 'head get down with it.
badge
Take it to the chorus!
mbmbmb
russ wrote:
My current ratings for them:
TZAAR = 9
DVONN = 8
GIPF = 8
YINSH = 7
ZERTZ = 7
PUNCT = 6
TAMSK = 4


I knew you were my GeekBuddy for a reason.

My only difference is that PUNCT is on par with DVONN and GIPF. I've played it past first blush, which I'm guessing is the only thing keeping it relatively low in your own rankings.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.