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Subject: BGWS 066 - Simultaneous Auction games rss

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Donald Dennis
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snicholson wrote:
Doh! Yet another error. Oh well, I'm not going to try and fix that one.

I grew up with horses, so "my little pony" was actually "my large quarter horse that kicked me in the chest and threw me across the pen".

No love for horses here.

I agree - not worth correcting!

The quarter horse I grew up around preferred to bite, step on your feet, and pin you against the stable wall. He was a bully.
 
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Tim Seitz
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Alexfrog wrote:
All of these games use a similar mechanic but with a twist that makes it work better for that game. (Well, except Evo, I dont know that the immediate rebid makes it better).

Alex, here's some anecdotal user feedback. My kids and I all play and enjoy both Evo and Homesteaders.

For Homesteaders, we used to play the bid-on-your-turn method, but have since defaulted to the just-get-it-over-with method of Evo.

While we recognize the proper way to play in Homesteaders, we didn't notice it change bidding outcomes, and it seemed to double the time to process the auction for some reason. In Evo, you are bidding VPs and the genes generally all have similar levels of effectiveness, so bidding really high for that special thing you want isn't really a good idea. However, in Homsteaders, money is only useful for getting things to convert other things to VPs, so maybe we need to re-examine bidding outcomes.
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David Wiens
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definitely enjoying the new format. It fills the void left by The Metagamers. Except yours is 20 minutes instead of 2 hours.
 
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Alex H.
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Great show and good to see you are back. Still the best podcast on boardgames in my opinion simply because your analysis of games and mechanics is always interesting - even if most of the games you review are somewhat too light for my personal taste.

Please don't read the last comment as a suggestion to review other games - it was not.
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will sargent
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snicholson wrote:
ekted wrote:
It's pronounced: SICK luh deez


Or with a hard K and a th (ki-KLA-this). Or like I said it. Or even, 'Hey, it's an attempt at humor.'

There's a whole debate on the topic over at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/513144/yugblads-quick-fi...-

Who knows, it's all greek to me.



The pronunciation issue actually came across as a pompous poke at Tom Vasel to me, especially as you said in the piece that it is 'a video reviews' job to get these kind of things right'

How stupid do you look now? I still haven't stopped laughing.

Just get on with the reviews and forget about trying to remind us you're a 'professor' every show - you're darned good at these videos and I really enjoy your knowledge of gaming.

Another point Scott, might I recommend you include a right-to-reply section actually on your site, as it's a bit harsh on products/designers with only your comments/opinion on show.
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Scott Nicholson
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Thank you for your constructive criticism, Will.

I try different types of humor for my opening segment, and it's clear that this time, I didn't present it appropriately. I was trying something along the lines of the Daily Show, where they present something , make a statement about it, then do something silly. I thought the parody of pronouncing another game wrong would make it clear that it was humor, but several people didn't take it as such. I don't plan on doing another opening segment like that again. I have talked with Tom about it, however, and like me, he doesn't take himself seriously.

But comments like this...

willsargent wrote:
Just get on with the reviews...


upset me.


If you paid for this content, then I would be OK with the idea of "shut up, Scott, and just get back to work." But you didn't pay for it. One of the problems of the Television media is that people don't perceive how they pay for it, and thus see it as free. They carry this attitude over to these video podcasts as well and act entitled to get what they want.

But the thousands of people that watch the show and get the benefit aren't paying - the only benefit I can count on is my own pleasure from this.

So, I do what pleases me, and have named the show appropriately. This is why the blog is my own opinion... it does what it says on the tin - Board Games with Scott. When I started the show, I had open comments, and I had to deal with so much spam and junk that the time it took to clean wasn't worth the amount of real content that was there. If I had an open forum for every episode, I would be actively having to clean 66 different places right now - the spamming tools look for anything, not just recent posts. So, I off-load that work to BGG and do the forum here.

It should be pretty clear from the title that the show is as much about me as it is about games, and if you want someone to just "get on with the reviews," there are plenty of other personality-free reviews you can watch out there. I spend 60-70 hours a week being a professor, so that will leak into a show where I am being myself. When I play games, I don't put aside myself to just be a robot-like player, and when I talk about the games, I'm doing the same thing.

So, I'm not going to just "get on with the reviews."

Instead, I'm just going to "get on with the Scott," doing what amuses and pleases me. I'll throw some board games in there, too. You're welcome to come along for the ride, but I'm not leaving who I am at the door.
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Mike Mestemaker
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snicholson wrote:
I try different types of humor for my opening segment, and it's clear that this time, I didn't present it appropriately. ... I thought the parody of pronouncing another game wrong would make it clear that it was humor, but several people didn't take it as such.


The minute you went down the "pretty ponies" path, it was obvious you were painting both yourself and Tom with the same silly brush. I don't know about anyone else, but for me, the joke worked.
 
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montag 66
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willsargent wrote:
snicholson wrote:
ekted wrote:
It's pronounced: SICK luh deez


Or with a hard K and a th (ki-KLA-this). Or like I said it. Or even, 'Hey, it's an attempt at humor.'

There's a whole debate on the topic over at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/513144/yugblads-quick-fi...-

Who knows, it's all greek to me.



The pronunciation issue actually came across as a pompous poke at Tom Vasel to me, especially as you said in the piece that it is 'a video reviews' job to get these kind of things right'

How stupid do you look now? I still haven't stopped laughing.

Just get on with the reviews and forget about trying to remind us you're a 'professor' every show - you're darned good at these videos and I really enjoy your knowledge of gaming.

Another point Scott, might I recommend you include a right-to-reply section actually on your site, as it's a bit harsh on products/designers with only your comments/opinion on show.
thumbsdown

And seriously, you've thumbed your own post? shake
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Joe Kundlak
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willsargent wrote:
blablabla


Dude?
You just went really down there...

thumbsdownthumbsdownthumbsdownthumbsdownthumbsdown
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Kevin Garnica
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You guys *do* realize that, when it comes to whether Cyclades is pronounced with the hard 'K' sound or not, that the way the title is written on the box cover it can be either way...

The C's conveniently have a Corinthian column hiding behind it, thus sort of making it look like a 'K', right? Let's try to make a little progress with the debate and play the game already.
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Max Maloney
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I'm a big Tom Vasel fan, but I thought it was actually good that Scott did that, whether for humor or not. Many people may not know this word and learn to pronounce it incorrectly because they saw it on Tom's review.

You can go two routes imo: SICK-la-dees is the standardized English pronunciation, though it may be just as non-native in pronunciation as Paris or Rome or Japan or countless other place names.

The alternative is to try to learn a more authentic Greek pronunciation.

SIGH-clades is bad. I still love Tom Vasel though.
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Donald Dennis
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montag66 wrote:
thumbsdown

And seriously, you've thumbed your own post? shake


You can thumb your own posts? If I'da known that I wouldn't have brow-beat Caradoc until he reflexively thumbed every post I make. I'll be right back ... ninja
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Joshua Trevino
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Well done, Scott! Vegas Showdown and Amun Re are extremely fun and Cyclades will definitely be purchased soon. You've also put Homesteaders on my radar.
 
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john guthrie
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episode 66
the problem with this new format is that i ended up adding three games to my want list, as opposed to the old single game...
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Bernard
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grafpoo wrote:
the problem with this new format is that i ended up adding three games to my want list, as opposed to the old single game...


A little gesture to support Scott: Make sure to mail the publisher and tell them you bought the game because of the show (with a link to Scott's review) so he will get some credit from the publishers.

Disclaimer: I don't know Scott personally and I don't benefit from this post in any way, other than making Scott happy so he will continue making nice videos for BGWS. :P
 
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will sargent
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I know this isn't directly related to the thread, so apologies in advance, but I note this with the previous comment about 'making sure we mention Scott's piece to the publisher' - I assume this is to curry future favour for [cough] review copies...

I'd find it useful to know how many games 'featured' by Tom Vasel and Scott are paid for out of their own pockets, and how many are 'donated' by companies.

In my experience as a videogame reviewer for UK print magazines, we often found ourselves becoming too soft on poor games because we'd been given them for free. We really had to use some tough love on bad products, with only ever the dear readr in mind.

I think this is a really valuable piece of information for folk about to lash out £40 on a game like Homesteaders or cycle-days, the former still not having the clearest rules in the world as made clear by Scott's various mistakes. I'm afraid I want my rules to be gin clear at this price.

Scott was quick to mention that his blog works in quite a different way to 'old' media, and that it's 'for free' but IMO it's exactly the same, with the same level of responsibility and the same levels of influence.
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Joe Kundlak
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Will,

I would not be worried about review copies getting a warmer response from Tom (or Scott, if he gets them). If they like them, they say so. If not, they throw them off the roof.
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john guthrie
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i'm jealous, too, that they get all these games for free, but i don't go posting about it ... d'oh
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Scott Nicholson
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willsargent wrote:

I'd find it useful to know how many games 'featured' by Tom Vasel and Scott are paid for out of their own pockets, and how many are 'donated' by companies.


If it matters to you, then assume that I got everything for free. Here's why - I get cash donations and store credit for my videos, and I use those to supplement what I get from companies.

I've probably gotten 50 free board games this year so far, and none of them have been featured on a show.


Quote:

In my experience as a videogame reviewer for UK print magazines, we often found ourselves becoming too soft on poor games because we'd been given them for free. We really had to use some tough love on bad products, with only ever the dear readr in mind.


Please don't assume your magazine's ethics are my own. I would imagine your print magazines also took advertisements from some of the same companies that produced games, and you asked people to pay for the magazine, so it is a different ethical and commercial space - you needed to get money from the dear readers to stay in business. I don't have that same need.

I am not soft on a game because it was free. I apply the same level of non-coverage to games that are free as to games I pay for that I don't like.

I do not create videos to sell games for publishers.
If I did, I would be charging a heck of a lot more than a free game to make them.
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Donald Dennis
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willsargent wrote:

I know this isn't directly related to the thread, so apologies in advance, but I note this with the previous comment about 'making sure we mention Scott's piece to the publisher' - I assume this is to curry future favour for [cough] review copies...


There are many reasons to want game companies to know what we (reviewers/podcasters) are up to. In some cases it may be so they'd consider putting us on their review lists, but it's also a way to open up a dialog with the manufacturers possibly to score an interview or even get the scoop on upcoming products.

Even if it's all about the review copies, podcasters generally invest so much time and money in creating these shows it'd be cheaper and faster to get another job and just buy the damned games and not tell you what we think of them.

willsargent wrote:
I'd find it useful to know how many games 'featured' by Tom Vasel and Scott are paid for out of their own pockets, and how many are 'donated' by companies.


Just assume all of them. It's not true, but I play lots of games I didn't buy. Some of them were donated, others were gifts from friends, and others I played at a local game day. A better question would probably be has each reviewer tested each game five or ten times before reviewing it.

willsargent wrote:
In my experience as a videogame reviewer for UK print magazines, we often found ourselves becoming too soft on poor games because we'd been given them for free. We really had to use some tough love on bad products, with only ever the dear readr in mind.


Actually, I've noticed more people defending sucky games they paid for, because they don't want to have wasted money, than veteran reviewers going soft on games they were given as review copies. We discussed this in On Board Games a while back.
http://onboardgames.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=203340

willsargent wrote:
I think this is a really valuable piece of information for folk about to lash out £40 on a game like Homesteaders or cycle-days, the former still not having the clearest rules in the world as made clear by Scott's various mistakes. I'm afraid I want my rules to be gin clear at this price.


You are right - if the rules are not clear the reviewer should make mention of that. However, even the clearest rules will not prevent players from playing the game incorrectly, and the more complex the game the more likely there will be operator error.

willsargent wrote:
Scott was quick to mention that his blog works in quite a different way to 'old' media, and that it's 'for free' but IMO it's exactly the same, with the same level of responsibility and the same levels of influence.


The bottom line is - if you don't review with integrity people will not value your reviews. There are several podcasters I quit listening to because they sounded like their opinions were paid for by the companies that provided games or even financial benefit.

Why did I quit listening? Because their show had no value to me. I recognized what they were and quit listening.

BGWS offers lots of value, not only does he show you enough about a set of games to let you know what Scott finds interesting about them, but he shows you enough to let you know if you will find the games worthwhile.

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will sargent
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All fair points, and well put sir. I've also said in all most posts to Scott that I really value his work - his reviews have been very useful to me in the past and I really like the cross compare system he uses now.

I was just trying to redress the balance about the smarta** swipe on pronunciation - it was the fact that he got it qrong too that really tickled me. Also, Scott says he's upset about comments about his sarcasm which is even funnier than the backfiring joke in the first place. If you're gonna take shots at people making mistakes baby, you've got to take a little bit back in my book. The fact that he has to write a 200 word reply trying to dress it up as humour beggars belief. I thought he was using BGG as a new moderated forum for comments/praise/complaints etc...

This isn't to say I really value Scott's work, which I do, I just think he's a bit caught up in his own world of academia. I'm a libran, unfortunately, which means I always dive in to redress the balance...

[that's libran, not librarian...]
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Jae Ha Woo
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willsargent wrote:
I'd find it useful to know how many games 'featured' by Tom Vasel and Scott are paid for out of their own pockets, and how many are 'donated' by companies.


Scott does talk about this in the disclaimer toward the end of the video. I remember seeing this disclaimer multiple times in his recent video reivew. I agree with you that I appreciate seeing this explicitly mentioned.

willsargent wrote:
The pronunciation issue actually came across as a pompous poke at Tom Vasel to me, especially as you said in the piece that it is 'a video reviews' job to get these kind of things right'


willsargent wrote:
I was just trying to redress the balance about the smarta** swipe on pronunciation - it was the fact that he got it qrong too that really tickled me.


For what it's worth, thoe whole thing didn't strike me as "pompous poke" or "smarta** swipe" at all.
 
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willsargent wrote:
All fair points, and well put sir. I've also said in all most posts to Scott that I really value his work - his reviews have been very useful to me in the past and I really like the cross compare system he uses now.

I was just trying to redress the balance about the smarta** swipe on pronunciation - it was the fact that he got it qrong too that really tickled me. Also, Scott says he's upset about comments about his sarcasm which is even funnier than the backfiring joke in the first place. If you're gonna take shots at people making mistakes baby, you've got to take a little bit back in my book. The fact that he has to write a 200 word reply trying to dress it up as humour beggars belief. I thought he was using BGG as a new moderated forum for comments/praise/complaints etc...

This isn't to say I really value Scott's work, which I do, I just think he's a bit caught up in his own world of academia. I'm a libran, unfortunately, which means I always dive in to redress the balance...

[that's libran, not librarian...]


Just get on with your, ehhh... not making video reviews... and forget about trying to remind us you didn't like Scott's little joke every post. :P

If you think Tom and Scott are too soft, well, don't rely on their opinion. If you think that this should change, go make your own video reviews. It's so easy to criticize. Even if they are a little too soft because they got the game for free, does that matter? You still can watch the show and see how the mechanics work and make up for yourself if this is a game for you. So I don't understand what the thing is you try to balance here other then your own feelings of injustice? I also don't understand what you want to accomplish by the comment about him being caught up in his own world of academia?

All in all, I had the need to respond to your post not because I am against criticism or negative feedback (on the contrary), but because I don't see how you are helping him or the show by saying the things you do. It could just be me, but I found your posts to have a negative undertone, and I can imagine that is something that upset Scott. Like you said, you like the show, and I believe that a good way to show that is to give criticism in a respectful way. I hope you find my feedback a little bit useful. ;)

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will sargent
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Hi Jae, I really must give you 2/10 for your body language and observational skills...

Check the video again in slow motion - Scott's pupils dilate with excitement, and a small amount of froth gathers in the side of his mouth as Tom takes to the floor...

The table in front of Scott also rises by an inch as Tom's total lack of knowledge of Greek verse is made clear for the world to laugh and point at in their millions. [At this point Scott is near climax, as he prepares to lecture the world on pronunciation - the man can hardly wait to shake his head at this f**wit...]

Staying with slow motion, Tom now leaves the stage, unaware that children and old women are pointing and scoffing as he leaves the studio and walks the mean streets of South Korea desperatley trying to make amends for his ill-planned verbal outburst.

Sticking with the slow-mo, Scott's eyes then roll in self-satisfaction as he tries to kiss the dog after kicking it with a weak attempt as self depreciation. "Just like Idot Boy over there, I once mis-pronounced a game name, but I do it deliberatley because I'm dead clever - feel the power of my microbadge!"

Wow, absolute classic p** taking in my book.
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Donald Dennis
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Apparently somebody doesn't get the joke, and wants to make sure nobody else enjoys it either.
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