Hans Brouwer
Netherlands
Utrecht
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BlueSapphire wrote: Randy Cox wrote: I know that some people (Derk) equate "Family subdomain" to "lite euro game." But the poll text is still "good for adults and kids."
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Thoughts? I knew about those words when I was 9. Does there exist a place where kids aren't educated?
Yes, it's called UsA...
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Frank Feldmann
United States
Dayton
Ohio
Now contributing to Father Geek!
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I am amazed by this thread, because I think a lot of people have missed the crux of the issue. The real issue is how playing a game with course language, German armies or anything else is or is not perceived by children as an endorsement of these things.
For example, my son (age 13) sees playing a wargame with me as an endorsement of my love of history, not an endorsement of any one political or philosophical viewpoint. At the same time, Guillotine is not a family game for us because he finds the "Piss Boy" offensive.
As for nudity, he has heard me say repeatedly that "modesty is overrated". However, he is a very private person, and therefore is not tolerant of casual public nudity.
Where that threshold lies depends on the relationships and personalities in the family.
All of that said, I think of "family game" not as "what would I play in my family", but rather "what games would I be comfortable introducing to other families"? So it also includes a concern for what is acceptable in my community.
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Rob Derrick
United States
Los Alamos
New Mexico
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Randy Cox wrote: I know that some people (Derk) equate "Family subdomain" to "lite euro game." But the poll text is still "good for adults and kids."
In the end, I think that the issue is so subjective, too subjective, as to ensure that there is no way to quantify it.
What the goal seems to be to find societal norms and apply them here. However, there is no absolute societal norm about most such things, and especially words. While some people would be aghast at what seems innocent to me, others would allow that which I find abhorrent. The classic subjective definition is, "I can't tell you what pornography is, but I know it when I see it." Yeah, that is a fair standard, maybe, but, it will never satisfy all.
Our societal norms are not narrow in the US -- they span a wide variation. But then, on BGG, societal norms are not even US'ocentric, since this website is Global in its scope. Then, keep in mind that Schrille Stille is a German Game to begin with. Ultimately, there is no standard that could be applied that will satisfy everyone.
For example, if f*ck is unacceptable, how about f**k?
Or f***?
F-word?
How about @#$%?
At some point there it becomes acceptable, I know, because for at least one of those, it would hardly raise an eyebrow in a newspaper's Sunday funnies. In fact, it can sometimes be found there. And, if you are worried about having to explain to a kid what the former means, you are still gonna have to explain the latter. My solution, for my own family, is to explain both, or all. I don't forbid my kids the words, but I warn them that they take full responsibility for their use. I would not ever suppose that I could ever hide language them, so teaching them where and when they are appropriate, if ever, is the best way I can give them the tools to navigate the worlds of taboo language.
There is a word that for all intents and purposes means the same thing as the word above. During my childhood, it was just as forbidden as the f-bomb is now. Either word would have gotten me into a world of trouble, and only the one is slightly better than the other.
Imagine my surprise then when I am boardgaming with a Pastor, an evangelical fundamentalist, and he pops out with, "Man, you have really screwed me over with that move!" "Screw" used to be, and for some people still is, nearly as obscene as you know who. Yet, it has entered the vernacular, and for many people now, it has completely lost its sexual connotation when used in polite conversation.
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Randy Cox wrote: Castor Krieg wrote: Sphere wrote: Do you have some sort of data that supports that, or are you speaking based on your personal memories? I for one was strongly interested several years earlier, and many friends who were just as interested as I was. Tried not to get caught looking, true, but that's a very different thing from lack of interest. I don't have a specific quote, but there's a lot of research done on the subject. There is a difference between developing gender identity, and developing sexually. The former starts at the age of 2 or 3, the latter around the age of 12. However, the issue here is not a stray boob or whatnot. That's moderately easy to explain away to a 6-10 year old. But explaining why a "family game" can have "F*ck You" and "Bitches" as purportedly acceptable band names is another thing altogether. Has nothing to do with Nazis or mammaries. Has to do with language and whether it's appropriate for families.
Are you in effect saying that the issue is really how easily you can discuss/explain something?
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
1024x768 works just fine - Don't Wide the Site!
The Back Alley gets no respect.
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David N wrote: Randy Cox wrote: Castor Krieg wrote: Sphere wrote: Do you have some sort of data that supports that, or are you speaking based on your personal memories? I for one was strongly interested several years earlier, and many friends who were just as interested as I was. Tried not to get caught looking, true, but that's a very different thing from lack of interest. I don't have a specific quote, but there's a lot of research done on the subject. There is a difference between developing gender identity, and developing sexually. The former starts at the age of 2 or 3, the latter around the age of 12. However, the issue here is not a stray boob or whatnot. That's moderately easy to explain away to a 6-10 year old. But explaining why a "family game" can have "F*ck You" and "Bitches" as purportedly acceptable band names is another thing altogether. Has nothing to do with Nazis or mammaries. Has to do with language and whether it's appropriate for families. Are you in effect saying that the issue is really how easily you can discuss/explain something?
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