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Subject: Decent games where players share the same set of pieces? rss

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Markus Hagenauer jr.
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FiveStars wrote:

It's just like saying that Shogi and Xiangqi is a plagiarism of Chess.



... or saying Omega is a plagiarism of Product Hex.

The games memtionde in this discussion (yours as well as some form Nestor) are not verry innovative and verry close to other games released before. There are touhsands of games that are colse related to other games too, but this does not qualify them as plagiarism. They are just less innovative games, not reinventing the wheel.
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Ralf Gering
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Markus Hagenauer wrote:
FiveStars wrote:

It's just like saying that Shogi and Xiangqi is a plagiarism of Chess.



... or saying Omega is a plagiarism of Product Hex.

The games memtionde in this discussion (yours as well as some form Nestor) are not verry innovative and verry close to other games released before. There are touhsands of games that are colse related to other games too, but this does not qualify them as plagiarism. They are just less innovative games, not reinventing the wheel.


Obviously your English is too poor to understand the rules.
 
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Russ Williams
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FiveStars wrote:
Obviously your English is too poor to understand the rules.

I remember reading posts by Mark aggressively insulting you for your English. Now that you and Mark are on the same side of some issue, are you taking up his habits?
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Ralf Gering
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Let me copy (um, plagiarize?) the following text:
===============================================

What is Plagiarism?

Many people think of plagiarism as copying another's work, or borrowing someone else's original ideas. But terms like "copying" and "borrowing" can disguise the seriousness of the offense:
According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means

* to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
* to use (another's production) without crediting the source
* to commit literary theft
* to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

In other words, plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both stealing someone else's work and lying about it afterward.
But can words and ideas really be stolen?

According to U.S. law, the answer is yes. The expression of original ideas is considered intellectual property, and is protected by copyright laws, just like original inventions. Almost all forms of expression fall under copyright protection as long as they are recorded in some way (such as a book or a computer file).

All of the following are considered plagiarism:

* turning in someone else's work as your own
* copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
* failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
* giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
* changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
* copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)

Most cases of plagiarism can be avoided, however, by citing sources. Simply acknowledging that certain material has been borrowed, and providing your audience with the information necessary to find that source, is usually enough to prevent plagiarism. See our section on citation for more information on how to cite sources properly

http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.ht...


----------------------------
In a trial based on circumstantial evidence (for our German readers: Indizienprozess) it would be easy to prove that the similarities between his games and some older well-known abstracts (one even from the same community of a dozen or so inventors of abstract strategy games in Spain) can hardly be accidental.
 
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Ralf Gering
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russ wrote:
FiveStars wrote:
Obviously your English is too poor to understand the rules.

I remember reading posts by Mark aggressively insulting you for your English. Now that you and Mark are on the same side of some issue, are you taking up his habits?


Do you know http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ ?
 
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Ted Conn
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Lee's Summit
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OP,

Getting us back on track, I humbly submit Qwirkle and Qwirkle Cubes as being really worthy of your request.
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Markus Hagenauer jr.
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FiveStars wrote:
Markus Hagenauer wrote:
FiveStars wrote:

It's just like saying that Shogi and Xiangqi is a plagiarism of Chess.



... or saying Omega is a plagiarism of Product Hex.

The games memtionde in this discussion (yours as well as some form Nestor) are not verry innovative and verry close to other games released before. There are touhsands of games that are colse related to other games too, but this does not qualify them as plagiarism. They are just less innovative games, not reinventing the wheel.


Obviously your English is too poor to understand the rules.


I´m not sure. For me "OF EITHER COLOUR" (Product Hex) means you can chosse 2/0, 1/1, 0/2, right?
And as I understand the rules of Omega, you must place one stone
of each color
.
I can´t beliefe this does not have a distinct influence on the game play.
And so for me Omega seems to be inspired by Product Hex (could still be a coincidence too) but the distinction is still enought, so I can´t agree to the designation "plagiarism".

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Markus Hagenauer jr.
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And back on topic,

Che comes to my mind,
and not to forget Banda by Alex Randolph.
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Eugene
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russ wrote:
FiveStars wrote:
Obviously your English is too poor to understand the rules.

I remember reading posts by Mark aggressively insulting you for your English.

Mark Steere certainly displays a very impressive command of it:

Quote:
> Ralf Gering, what's the point of throwing around plagiarism
> charges like that?

MS: The point is that plagiarists are pieces of shit, and they need to be
outed.

> Nestor is here.

MS: Case in point.

> If you think another game is similar to his, you can ask him.

MS: Similar? Taiji is a carbon copy of Tonga you fucking nitwit.

> Even reinvention is quite common with abstract games.
> I met a guy,

MS: Yeah, you met a guy, and you plugged your face into his ass.


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.abstract/browse_thr...
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Ralf Gering
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Markus Hagenauer wrote:

I´m not sure. For me "OF EITHER COLOUR" (Product Hex) means you can chosse 2/0, 1/1, 0/2, right?


Wrong. It means you play one stone of your own color and one of your opponent's color.


(in German: either bedeutet hier "jede")

BTW, it wouldn't make sense to play stones of your opponent's color (thus helping him to form a larger group and win), if you were allowed to play two stones of your own color. Of course, it would be even worse to play two opponent's stones.

Bill Taylor writes: "The winner is whoever has
the higher product of sizes of his two largest groups." - his groups = stones of his color adjacent to each other!

 
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Arty Sandler
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FiveStars wrote:
...BTW, it wouldn't make sense to play stones of your opponent's color (thus helping him to form a larger group and win), if you were allowed to play two stones of your own color. Of course, it would be even worse to play two opponent's stones.

Bill Taylor writes: "The winner is whoever has
the higher product of sizes of his two largest groups." - his groups = stones of his color adjacent to each other!

actually, it makes perfect sense to play stones of the opponent's color and sometimes it's the greatest move possible to play two opponent's stones.

The point is that the goal is to get TWO large groups, not a single one. If you manage to connect two largest opponent's groups together with his own stones then you reduce his score. E.g. if two of your largest groups contain 9 and 9 stones, and the three largest groups of your opponent are 10,10 and 3 then your score is 81 and your opponent's score is 100, i.e. the opponent is leading. If you manage to put two opponent's stones and connect his largest groups then you reduce his score to (10+10+2) * 3 = 66.

So, again, it makes perfect sense to play two opponent's stones in many cases. Another reason for using opponent's stones is to prevent the opponent from using the mentioned above "trick" on you. I.e. you may want to use opponent's stones to make a chain separating two your largest groups. I would say that using opponent's stones is the essence of all those "product" games.

Btw, "either" means "each" or "any..", depends on the context. I would. actually, guess that in that case the meaning was "any (color)". I may be wrong of course I am not a native English speaker after all
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