Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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Hey guys,
While I'm not the best player at CE, nor do I play it the most... I really respect the game and its simplistic, yet fragile design. I have a group of friends that I play with, but mostly the more lighter TtR/Magic the Gathering games. I'm looking to teach them this game and hopefully for them to player better eventually.
So anyway... yea, the Erie just sounds really neat! The entire idea about a train with one stock really makes me wonder how it'll be in play. I know that some games I've played where two people had the same exact stock, I was wondering what would be the correct move for both of them to get ahead.
The Narrow Gauge sounds interesting too and adds something more to the null actions. I have seen too many 2/1 or 3/0 on red without sabotage when I've played.
So yes, I'm really hinging on this expansion and I keep reading the same information on it as there is not much strategy or articles on the game.
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Trygve E. Rosenvinge
Norway
Trondheim
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As I purchased my own Narrow Gauge & Erie RR Company Expansion last week and I'm still aching to try it out with my friends, I'm probably not the first person who ought to answer your questions, but I've been wanting to submit a similar post for a while now.
According to some of the submissions of other users, the Narrow Gauge works exactly as you suggest and will likely work better with a larger number of players, such as 4 or 5, than 2 or 3. It looks to me like a rather straightforward addition to the base game, and by being allowed to build a narrow gauge railroad, you're provided with something worthwhile and immediate to use with a null-action, while it also adds another option of interactivity and effective interference.
In the base game, sometimes the only way to interfere with an opponent involves buying stock in his company and then "hijack" it by making the railroad branch off in an undesired direction, thus exhausting the supply of locomotives and possibly money. The narrow gauge railways allow you to block the development of an opposing railway rather more efficiently, while it also leads to a longer game as you will probably prefer to expend auction actions, which in turn leads to fewer actual auctions. However, the narrow gauge railways will only be efficient in the forest and mountain hexes of Appalachia, once an opposing railroad has entered the Midwest the effect of a narrow gauge railway will be marginal.
I've been considering what I'd do with Erie. I find unsurprisingly that one of the most profitable routes for Erie leads to New York through the cities on the Northern border of the map, but this is also the preferred route of New York Central, and with only one stock to fund Erie, the Erie player may find the double cost associated with building in the same hexes as New York Central unreasonable. Accordingly, the Erie player should consider building his Buffalo - New York route through Binghampton. Building on forest hexes carries an additional advantage for the Erie player, because the company may have little money, and by developing some of the same forest hexes the railroad passes through, he may return some of his initial investment. However building in forests will also expose Erie to being blocked by narrow gauge railways.
As far as I know, the rules concerning building in forests with the Erie company has been changed in the Queen rules. I understand that in the Winsome edition, the Erie company was exempt from the rule that only allows one company in a forest hex and Erie was allowed to freely build track in forest hexes already occupied by other companies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been unable to find this exemption mentioned in the Queen rules.
To sum up my own thoughts concerning playing with Erie, the Erie company should attempt to reach New York, which provides the Erie player with an $8 income that cannot be split with other shareholders. Erie should go by one of the two viable routes, either through the Northern cities or through Binghampton, and this decision should depend on the route already chosen by New York Central.
When bidding for the sole Erie share consider the expected building costs, building the Buffalo-Syracuse-Utica-Albany-New York route will cost Erie $30 if those hexes are already in use by New York Central, so a bid in the area of $25-40 is probably advisable. If Erie runs out of money, the player may get some of it back from developing forests, but the income thus gained may not amount to much. If the Erie route pass through Binghampton, the network may later branch off towards Pittsburgh (through Harrisburg and Altoona), whereas the northern route will exhaust the supply of locomotives. A Pittsburgh branch will depend on the supply of money still left over, the route through Binghampton to New York costs $19 to construct, the Pittsburgh branch will amount to somewhere between $16 and $27, leading to a total construction cost of $35 or $46. But when you consider the potential of a developed Pittsburgh, plus the income of the other 2 cities, the total combined income thus gained will exceed the income of the Syracuse-Utica-Albany-New York route.
In any case, like Wabash, Erie easily runs the risk of running out of funds.
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Trygve E. Rosenvinge
Norway
Trondheim
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Please bear in mind that I haven't yet played with Erie expansion, and having had another look at the board, a route leading straight down from Buffalo towards Pittsburgh, or through Cleveland to Pittsburgh is likely a better alternative than the Altoona-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh branch I suggested. The route will on average cost less to build and the area between Buffalo and Pittsburgh will likely be less busy than the Altoona-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh corridor. Plus, going south from Buffalo is safer and harder to block with narrow gauge railroads, as the route is only 4 hexes long and several alternatives are available to the Erie player should he find himself obstructed from entering any particular space.
Buffalo-Cleveland is also a safe and valuable route and if the Erie company is never blocked, he may find he's able to reach Pittsburgh by Cleveland.
The cost of the entire route of Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Buffalo-Binghampton-New York will amount to $31, but as some of the hexes the route passes through are likely to be occupied by other railroads, the total cost may be closer to $40.
This sum of $40 would be money the player controlling the Erie share would have paid initially and it seems unlikely that the Erie player would ever profit much from such an investment. On the other hand, if Erie starts out with $19-26, the controlling player could develop the Erie-Binghampton-New York route and expect an income of $14-21 which would easily result in profit after only 2 Dividend Phases.
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Costas
Canada
London
Ontario
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Zingraff wrote: I understand that in the Winsome edition, the Erie company was exempt from the rule that only allows one company in a forest hex and Erie was allowed to freely build track in forest hexes already occupied by other companies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been unable to find this exemption mentioned in the Queen rules.
This is not true. The Erie is subject to the same rules for expansion.
Also, the best route for the Erie is west along Lake Erie, up to Detroit and into Chicago.
Quote: In any case, like Wabash, Erie easily runs the risk of running out of funds.
Make sure you bid appropriately for the Erie, considering which and how many railroad's are further west towards Chicago. Also, since the Erie can be quite powerful, expect the bids to run quite high.
The owner of the Erie then abandons any previous goals and alliances and focuses on the Erie.
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Paul Clarke
United Kingdom
Southampton
Hampshire
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You might not want the expansion until you've got to grips with the base game, especially if your group are not 'hard core' gamers and you think having to explain the extra rules could be too much.
On the other hand, Erie is simple to add in and makes the game worth playing with 5. Narrow gauge can help teach people how to play better by encouraging them to take null auctions.
With some of the groups of people I have taught, I've found no-one will ever take a null auction, unless I give a short lecture about them at the start. "Game length control" is critical, but non obvious mechanic.
As for strategy - Erie doesn't have to build very far. At first I thought it would only be good if it went to NY or Chicago. Sometimes it's better to save your money buy it cheap, do 0-2 builds and a few +2 develops. It's only worth having if you don't currently have a major line that you're trying to drive to Chicago, otherwise your builds have to be rationed out.
The narrow gauge blocking generally makes the game more unforgiving and brutal.
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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rockusultimus wrote: Also, the best route for the Erie is west along Lake Erie, up to Detroit and into Chicago.
If the game lasts long enough.
Quote: Also, since the Erie can be quite powerful, expect the bids to run quite high.
$25-$35 is common. More can still be viable.
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Trygve E. Rosenvinge
Norway
Trondheim
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rockusultimus wrote: Also, the best route for the Erie is west along Lake Erie, up to Detroit and into Chicago.
If I found myself controlling Erie I'd be worried about the cost of building a route westward to Detroit and Chicago, because unlike the larger companies, Erie cannot really afford the double or triple cost of building into hexes already occupied by other companies.
More likely than not, all the funds available to Erie will come from the one time investment you made when you bought the single company share, so it's better then to use that money carefully. The area to the west of Cleveland is likely to be busy with the other companies aiming for Chicago, and some of these companies may benefit from having several players building for them. The Erie company cannot compete with the with the potential construction speed of the other companies, and when considering the limited funds available to Erie, then to compete for the access of Detroit and Chicago seems perilous.
Whereas building a route to New York, picking the path not used by New York Central to Buffalo carries no real risk, as the other companies have no interest in that area once they've passed through it. While I acknowledge that Detroit and Chicago are valuable cities, New York and Pittsburgh are more or less equally valuable. If we disregard the benefit of the extra dividend paid out in the special Chicago phase, then New York and Pittsburgh are easily more valuable than Detroit and Chicago.
The only real reason for wanting to lead Erie to Chicago would be the special Chicago dividend phase, but going west seems more risky than building a route to New York.
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Costas
Canada
London
Ontario
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Zingraff wrote: If I found myself controlling Erie...
All good points but like I said, make sure you bid appropriately for the Erie, considering which and how many railroad's are further west towards Chicago.
How you use the Erie when it becomes available depends on what actions are left that round, how many rounds are left, and where the other companies are on the map. Like the Wabash, it will be most lucrative to one individual based on his seating order and the other players should bid accordingly.
Figuring all these little nuances out and how much that little one-share company impacts the game is what makes it such a great expansion.
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Michael Webb
United States
The City of Steel
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
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Maybe this is just personal bias, but when I win the Erie, and that seems to be rare, I find it's often much more sensible to just run it into Pittsburgh. It costs less money, takes a lot less time, and potentially frees up other actions.
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Gary Heidenreich
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Once I used the expansions (and we used both) I will not go back to playing the game without them They add a ton without changing the game much at all (in the general playing sense). In my last two plays, the Narrow Gauge has really come into it's own.
Great questions...I think this one needs to come out again, soon.
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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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Just bought this sucker. Chicago owns me. Hope to see what it's like with the Erie and Narrow Gauge.
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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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So far, I've only played with the Erie and it's never had enough funds to make it to New York or Chicago. One game, a player ran out of money and tried to spend develops in forests. It never made it to New York. Another game, the PRR heavily blocked it and it barely made it to Pittsburgh.
I have yet to run the Narrow Gauge.
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