Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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So, it's the end of the game and you have to move your leftover meeple over the gaps to the land. BUT you don't have enough points to pay for that. The rules state that in this case, you get negative points.
Soooo.... what ARE the negative points??? The total you had to pay to cross over to the land?? If so, the end result is the same isn't it?
I mean, when you pay to cross over to the land, you lose those points.
And when you don't have anything to pay with, those points will be lost.
So is there a difference between the two?? I don't see it. It seems to me, that whether you pay or not, those ARE your negative points, so the rule of moving to the land is superfluous. Or is it?...
Unless, you MUST be on land in order to be even CONSIDERED to be a winner. That would put a whole new paint job on things.
Can anyone clarify??
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Brian Brokaw
United States
Hillsboro
Oregon
It's not a damn moped!
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um....
I'm not exactly sure what your question is, but I've never had so few VP tiles plus cards in my possession at end game to need to spend ALL of them (and more) to get my last meeples to the mainland. So, "negative points" has never come up for me.
...but you must spend VP to get your last meeples home. This forces you to spend VP in the increments that you have (remember, no change back). Hopefully you have enough cards in hand to spend them at 1 VP a piece to add to the appropriate VP tiles pay exact.
Have you run out of VP at the end of a game?
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Ian Klinck
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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I'm not real clear on the question myself, but answering what I think you're asking:
Normally, during the game, if I have (for example) 2 cards in my hand, and no tiles, and I want to move my meeple across a gap that will cost 5, I simply cannot move the meeple.
At the end of the game, all meeples must move to the land, and all costs must be paid. In this case, if I get to the last gap, and I have no tiles and 2 cards, and the gap costs 5 to cross, then my final score is -2.
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Ken Thibodeau
Canada
Quebec
Quebec
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It just means you pay whatever you have (tiles+cards) until you reach 0 VP, then you earn negative VPs to pay whatever left before you reach Earth
Ex: you have a total of 14 VP (10 VP on tiles + 4 cards in hand) and you must pay 18 VP for the gaps. You pay your 14 VPs then get -4 VP for the extra 4 VP you can't pay
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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I understand you have to pay at the end to get your guys over to the land.
However, when you have to spend points to get over to the land, you're subtracting them from your pool of points, so they are in fact your negative points.
When you cannot pay, for whatever reason, the amount you would pay will be your negative points.
If both statements above are true, what's the point of getting your guys to the final land? I mean, in both cases you must subtract points. So the rule "you MUST get your guys to the festland" is not really a MUST rule. I mean, the final movement to the land is a moot point, because in both cases you're losing points.
Anyone else sees it that way?
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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iklinck wrote: Normally, during the game, if I have (for example) 2 cards in my hand, and no tiles, and I want to move my meeple across a gap that will cost 5, I simply cannot move the meeple.
At the end of the game, all meeples must move to the land, and all costs must be paid. In this case, if I get to the last gap, and I have no tiles and 2 cards, and the gap costs 5 to cross, then my final score is -2.
Wouldn't that be -5 points, because you cannot pay those costs?? Meaning, you lose 5, but have 2 points in hand, so your final score would be -3?
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Ken Thibodeau
Canada
Quebec
Quebec
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greengow wrote:
Anyone else sees it that way?
No...
I think you are over-thinking the issue. You HAVE to move your meeples to land, jumping over the gaps. These are the rules. In order to jump the gaps, you have to pay with VPs: a gap of value "3" will have to be paid with 3 VP, either from tiles, cards or a combination of both. Once you run out of available VPs (tiles + cards) you are at a score of 0. If you still have some meeples that need to reach the land, you must earn one negative VP for every VP you would have paid to jump the remaining gaps.
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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fardoche wrote: It just means you pay whatever you have (tiles+cards) until you reach 0 VP, then you earn negative VPs to pay whatever left before you reach Earth
Ex: you have a total of 14 VP (10 VP on tiles + 4 cards in hand) and you must pay 18 VP for the gaps. You pay your 14 VPs then get -4 VP for the extra 4 VP you can't pay
Exactly, so really, you don't HAVE TO move your guy to the festland. THAT rules is NOT a MUST. What IS a MUST is the payment. So either way, you get negative points, whether you move the guy or not.
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Ken Thibodeau
Canada
Quebec
Quebec
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Hmm... you don't have to PHYSICALLY move the meeple, but you must lose enough VPs to pay for all the remaining gaps between every meeple and land
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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fardoche wrote: greengow wrote:
Anyone else sees it that way?
No... I think you are over-thinking the issue. You HAVE to move your meeples to land, jumping over the gaps. These are the rules.
But it's not required to be on the land in order to win the game. You just get negative points, whether you move or not.
All I'm saying is that the final movement of the meeple is superfluous, becasue you must lose points either way, either by
A) paying for the gaps to get to the land, or
B) not moving at all and just subtract what you can't pay for.
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Brian Brokaw
United States
Hillsboro
Oregon
It's not a damn moped!
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greengow wrote: Exactly, so really, you don't HAVE TO move your guy to the festland. THAT rules is NOT a MUST. What IS a MUST is the payment. So either way, you get negative points, whether you move the guy or not.
Right. If you pay the final VP tally required to "move" all your remaining meeples to the mainland, I would care less whether you physically put your meeple(s) on the mainland....
...but then they will sink to the depths with Atlantis and your safe meeples would be sad.
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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fardoche wrote: Hmm... you don't have to PHYSICALLY move the meeple, but you must lose enough VPs to pay for all the remaining gaps between every meeple and land
Right on, that is the answer I'm looking for. You DON'T HAVE TO PHYSICALLY move the meeple, because you lose points either way. But the rules state, you MUST get your guy to the land. But it seems, that's not necessary.
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Ken Thibodeau
Canada
Quebec
Quebec
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In that case, you're right
taking the meeple in hand, moving it over gaps (while making some weird noises and arabesques with the meeple) is all optionnal, as long as you pay the gaps
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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brokasaphasia wrote: Right. If you pay the final VP tally required to "move" all your remaining meeples to the mainland, I would care less whether you physically put your meeple(s) on the mainland....
...but then they will sink to the depths with Atlantis and your safe meeples would be sad.
Well if you put it that way, that's a totally different angle, and ONLY then the rule about "MUST get your guy to the land" makes sense.
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Maciek U
United States
Cromwell
Connecticut
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fardoche wrote: In that case, you're right
taking the meeple in hand, moving it over gaps (while making some weird noises and arabesques with the meeple) is all optionnal, as long as you pay the gaps
The rules just should have stated, that if you DON'T get your guys to the land, you must subtract the total for all the gaps between the meeple and festland from your final score. That's it.
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Olav F.
Netherlands
Beverwijk
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I think it doesn't matter: you haven't won the game anyway
 (at least I haven't seen such a bad score).
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Bernd Keller
Germany
Dietzenbach
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Hey folks,
first you have to spend whatever you have. Then you go into negative point for as many point, that are still left to get all your guys safe.
Totally official answer. :)
Take care,
Bernd Keller
AMIGO Spiel + Freizeit GmbH
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Ruben Martin
Switzerland
Basel
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It seems to me that the game is nice to the meeples, in a sense that "none is left behind". Nobody is going to drown because of Atlantis sinking. So all meeples should be in the land at the end of the game. Therefore you pay as much as you can to accomplish this. If you don't have money enough you owe the difference and that's your negative points. I don't think it's more complicated than that...
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