uwe eickert
United States
Helena
Ohio
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Michael and I are outlining the Afrika front for the Conflict of Heroes series. I am at a crossroads and I would like some player input.
Michael broke it down into three major campaigns:
1. The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941). Most exotic theme.
2. DAK + Italians vs Commonwealth - from January 1941 (Rommel enters Africa) till November 1942 (El Alamein). Best known theme.
3 Algieria and Tunisia - from November 1942 till may 1943. Medium known theme, most diverse.
We can choose two campaigns from the three from above:
1. From 1940 and siege of Tobruk to the end of 1941 (operation Crusader).
2. From May 1942 El Gazala battle, through El Alamein, to Tunisia. Very diverse - Brits, Italians, Germans, French, USA - It is hard to imagine the number of counter sheets for this box. 
III. Or maybe only one Africa campaign, which would cover the 1942 campaign, beginning in May 1942 (El Gazala) and finishing in November 1942 (El Alamein).
IV. Or maybe just single battles/operations, like Operation Crusader or El Alamein Battle.
It is easier to design shorter campaigns than longer ones, as it is easier to select the proper types of equipment for shorter campaigns. There was such a great development of weaponry during these years - small tankettes and armored cars in 1940/41 to great Sherman/Tiger tanks of 1943. So we think there is no option to put an entire Africa campaign in a single box.
Any thoughts?
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Stewart Gibson
Canada
Mount Pearl
Newfoundland
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Uwe
I would like to see the Gazala - Crusader - Tobruk period myself. Good selection of equipment and troops not to mention nationalities. Good mix of actions as well.
IMHO there will be enough Tigers and Shermans in N Europe to keep everyone happy.
Stu
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Richard Savage
United States
Clearwater
Florida
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Uwe,
I like the 1942 diverse one, the Brits, French, Yanks, etc. with all their varied AFVs clashing in the wadis and hills of Tunisia.
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"Spartan spawn, sworn, raised for warring."
United States
Beaufort
South Carolina
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uweeickert wrote: The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941). Most exotic theme. 2. From May 1942 El Gazala battle, through El Alamein, to Tunisia. Very diverse - Brits, Italians, Germans, French, USA - It is hard to imagine the number of counter sheets for this box.
These two sound awesome!
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Edward Wehrenberg
United States
Unspecified
CA
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I want it all!
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Mike M
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
Currently running a Pathfinder Beginner Box game for my three kids!
129/420
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Another vote for 1942 diversity and a very heavy box!
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Captain Planet
Canada
Montreal
QC
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uweeickert wrote:
1. The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941). Most exotic theme.
2. DAK + Italians vs Commonwealth - from January 1941 (Rommel enters Africa) till November 1942 (El Alamein). Best known theme.
I like these two options the best. Save Tunisia for an expansion
Also, you should do the seige of Tubruk on a huge battle board
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Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
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I'm not fond of the North African campaigns anyway, but if it has to be, make it early war, M13/40s vs. A10s...
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Brian H
United States
Wisconsin
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#2 ... I wouldn't try a campaign as much as a number of engagements/major battles.
Good luck!
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kevan sumner
Canada
Brandon
Manitoba
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I'll put in a vote for the early campaigns, up until November, 1942. There will be enough of a variety in the pre-Operation Torch forces, due to the constant advancements being made in armoured vehicles.
I agree that covering the shole African war would be too ambitious for a single box. Some late Africa campaign scenarios could be developed in the future if you do a game covering the Italian campaign, using many of the Italian campaign counters with the African campaign maps.
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Larry Doherty
United States
Windsor, Northern-
California
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If one had to choose, go with the early years first.
I do like the idea of the Siege of Tobruk!!!!!
Now who would of thought we had a choice...NOPE.
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A L D A R O N
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
A L D A R O N
-} 1 {-
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3, for the reasons you list.
(Also, where are the modern games you've made us covet?)
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Brett Soutter
Canada
London
Ontario
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It occurs to me that you are in a win-win scenario, so I might refactor the question: from a manufacturing and design perspective, what gives you your fastest ROI?
Short of anything else, I'd suggest starting with the earlier years and releasing Expansions to deal with the subsequent engagement(s).
$0.02
PS - Thanks for asking!
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uweeickert wrote: 1. The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941).
This one sounds good to me. I'm a fan of focusing on an interesting and specific era and getting a good feel for the equipment and tactics used, instead of trying to pack in too much and losing that detail and flavour.
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武士に二言無し
Italy
Caravaggio
Europe + Earth + Via Lactea
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From the perspective of an Italian, I do not love the Africa campaign because highlights the darker side of the character of my people (imperialism) ... but if the game must be produced, the initial stages very mobile and dynamic are the most interesting so ... I opt for 1 & 2.
Ta Uwe and ever at disposition!
F.
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Tobias Moos
Australia
Melbourne
VIC
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uweeickert wrote: 1. The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941). Most exotic theme.
I vote for this one. Will make interesting battles in very difficult terrain. If there is not enough material for a whole box, it would probably make sense to follow the timeline:
uweeickert wrote: 2. DAK + Italians vs Commonwealth - from January 1941 (Rommel enters Africa) till November 1942 (El Alamein).
toby
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
Denmark
Vejle
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a big vote for Quote: 1. The British - Italian campaigns of 1940 and 1941, both in Egypt / Lybia (till January 1941) and in Etiopia and Somaliland (till May 1941). Most exotic theme. from me and my gaming group! Its a very underrepresented period of history and it would be awesome to see the Italians in their own right instead of just being cannon fodder for the DAK.
But I also like the idea of battle/campaign themed releases like you did with SoS as this better allows you to show all the different unit types and terrain features involved without the need for huge numbers of countersheets and maps/overlays. I also makes campaigns with linked scenarios a possibility.
Brian
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Ernest Schubert
United States
Polk Township
Pennsylvania
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Ok, here goes...
First off, I think that for the majority of WWII gamers, the war in North Africa means.... Rommel and the Afrika Korps. So, in order to reach the largest fan base, you'd have to include this theme.
Second. From what I've seen of CoH so far... I have to say that 'less is more'. In other words, Uwe, you are right in thinking that focusing on a more precise time and place makes for a better and more accurate game. I'd rather have a smaller, focused, game with a limited number of units... but units whose relative combat abilities are properly represented... than a huge monster game with thousands of units and unit types that forces some level of 'fudging the numbers' to make the game work.
If I had to pick a point in time for the initial installment I'd have to go with March 1941... the first German offensive with the Afrika Korps represented. You could stretch the time frame to cover the British offensives - Brevity and Battleaxe - to provide scenarios showing the Allies on the offensive.
I think this would provide the most in terms of 'fan' interest, balanced with limiting the number and types of units needed. It's a good point from a 'learning' standpoint as well. You'd get a chance to see what works and what doesn't, rules wise, for the Desert Campaigns before taking on projects with a larger scope...Like 'Operation Torch' or 'Crusader' and the Axis counter offensive at Gazala in June '42.
You'd also have room to expand the system in two directions - time wise... Back into the Italian/British conflicts of 1940, as well as forward into 'Crusader' and 'Torch'...
I place the starting point closer to the early war, than the later war, because I just think there's going to be alot more interest in games covering 'Crusader', 'Gazala' and 'Torch' than in a game or games dealing with the early war and the Italians(which could also cover East Africa and Ethiopia).
Well, my 2 cents.
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MAURO BORNIOLI
Italy
CAGLIARI
SARDEGNA
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The African theater is always damn fascinating!
And I think that it provides so much material that you could build dozens of boxes! 
Yes, the ideal would be to start from the early years of the conflict, and then grows it up.
Sometimes propose the expansion of individual battles or episodes of individual battles like El Alamein, of course, but also smaller but important battles like Bir El Gobi (italian victory hehehe).
I stay tuned...
  
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Stefan Keller
Germany
Sulzberg-Moosbach
Allgäu
-
This
frieque wrote: Some late Africa campaign scenarios could be developed in the future if you do a game covering the Italian campaign, using many of the Italian campaign counters with the African campaign maps.
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Uwe, I say do it all. Then again it would be a huge box!!! Campaign Themes 1 and 2 would just be brilliant!
There is a member at work here I want to have a sit down and pick his brain on his experience as he was in the 1st armored division from Britian in North Africa. Later in the war he ended up a gunner in the Pacific Theater. He laughs as that was where he lost his hearing.
can't wait for this Uwe. Keep up the awesome work!!!
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Troy Perry
United States
Ankeny
Iowa
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I think to do it properly it will take three boxes.
1. From 1940 and siege of Tobruk to the end of 1941 (operation Crusader).
2. From May 1942 El Gazala battle, through El Alamein, the retreat to Tunisia.
3. Operation Torch to the german surrender.
These divisions make the most sense for the equipment involved.
1 allied mostly cruiser and light tanks
2 grants, stugs and german fallschirmjagers troops.
3 americans, vichy french, shermans and tigers
The other thing I like is each of these time periods have several series of see-saw battles over the same real estate.
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Peter Appleton
Australia
Canberra
ACT
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uweeickert wrote: Michael 2. From May 1942 El Gazala battle, through El Alamein, to Tunisia. Very diverse - Brits, Italians, Germans, French, USA - It is hard to imagine the number of counter sheets for this box.
Personally I like this idea, but as you say, the number of counters needed may be prohibitive - I do agree with a previous post though that for the initial release the inclusion of the DAK is essential (the early Italian only campaigns would be more suitable for an expansion ala Price of Honour IMO).
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Kai von der Aa
Germany
Nuremberg
Bavaria
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Sheep wrote: Another vote for 1942 diversity and a very heavy box! :)
Yes, I'm with you.
I would like to see all 3 campaigns, but with that "big" game, the "exotic" theme with the Italians can be used as an expansion game, like we see it now with Poland as an Expansion for AtB and SoS?
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Jesse LeBreton
United States
Kingsford
Michigan
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Big box, small box, I really wouldn't mind what method was chosen as long as most of the really interesting battles were covered. Probably one main box with a follow up expansion box would please most and provide enough to feel complete without going overboard on this one theater.
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