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We played a lot of descent in our life with always more less the same players. this means our heroes should have quite some experience. This summer we did three RtL camapaigns in a row (we played nearly every evening
 ). and though the heroes (including me) won the first game against a young and kinda noobish OL with ease the heroes seem to have no chance at all against me playing the OL.
we did two campaigns now, both ending within the silver grade with a capitulation of the heroes, with me having around 70 XP more then them. I played SK in the first game and the Spider Queen in the second.
Its always the same. right from the start the heroes are having troubles doing more than one dungeon level. they might go through two levels, but if they ever try the third level they die a horrible death netting me all the XP I need for my mosnter upgrade. and if i get evil genius and/or trapmaster early on the wont even manage the second level.
my first upgrade is always a monster upgrade for which i save the XP, and as soon as I get my first upgrade and the heroes encounter a lvl including upgraded monsters they can only run. so only first levels from then one.
this traps them within the area of tamalir and my lieutenants can raise one or two cities at the border of terrinoth - increasing my xp income. if they go for my lieutenants it doesnt help them neither. although they managed to kill the teleporting lieutenant once the others are too tough for them (especially if i upgrade the beasts first). sometimes they are doing well and force me to run, but sometimes they dont. if they only make a slight mistake and i manage to kill one of them early one with a fast monster approach & some traptreachery they get toasted, all heroes die and they are back in tamalir. with some treachery and the possibility to get reinforcements from the upgraded monsterclass the lieutenants are devastating if the heroes dont achive a fast victory. and even if they do i simply run away. and the time it took the heroes to reach my lieutenant costs them dearly, since i am already laying siege somewhere else in terrinoth and the just defeated lieutenant will return very fast.
another problem of the heroes is that they are very short on money. although they are doing quite well xp wise they always lack the money to get descent upgrades. and running for the treasure in a dungeoun is no real option since my monsters will usually stand right on top of them.
its also nearly impossible for the heroes to get to a secret masters training without sacrificing one or even two cities to me. additionally they have to ignore all dungeons on their way to the SM which increases my XP lead even further.
they also cant do rumours or the legendary dungeon since they cant do more than two levels of any dungeon. they tried one rumour right at the end of the copper stage and they succeded all levels including the rumour, but i killed all of them twice in the last level (the rumour level).
as soon as i get "crushing blow" and take away their best weapons (cone of fire, special blast weapons go first) or the special armor of their tank the get really upset and start cursing.
we play with feat cards and with every health potion healing 4 health and the heroes are allowed to choose a certain character at the start of the campaign, no random drawing. additionally we use the SoB Rule which lowers the CP amount of every hero by one for every 25 points that the OL leads (down to a minimum of 1 though). so even the tanks only give me 1-2 CP in the end.
I also allow the heroes to exchange their character and draw new abbilities if they dont like their char after a few weeks of playing.
the heroes that they have tried so far in the two camapaigns (including switching heroes after the first game weeks) are:
First Campaign:
Tahlia
Shiver (Got killed by skeletons too often, got dissed)
Landrec the Wise
Rouring Boulder (the guy with the Axe in one hand)
Shilloutte
Second Campaign;
Kirga
Kutzbeck (easy traptarget, got dissed)
Lord Hawthorn
Narga Raffzahn (the Melee hero with additional damage against large Monsters)
Runemaster Thorn
They also tried the new ranged heroes which can teleport back to town once per area, but they dissed her since 3 CP for 12 HP and no armor was too weak, and kirga simply is far better.
we play with the SoB rules, so we nerved Nanok.
I dont think that the heroes where playing very weak. they made some mistakes, especially if it was later in the evening and if we drank too much beer, but so did I (how else can you loose a teleporting lieutenant? )
I dont think that we will try any further campaign anywhere too soon in the future since all my mates are completely demotivated (i am not, hehe  ). we might even place descent in the shelve for a few months. but what i dont get is, why did they loose so badly?
everyone here keeps telling me that the lieutenants are easy food for the heroes. well, after your first monster upgrade they are not, and since this will be the first thing you will do the heroes wont reach your lieutenant before you upgraded your monsters.
and at the start of the silver age again: they are NOT. especially if you saved the XP and started the silver week with upgrading beasts to gold. add some event treachery (danger) and a few traps (you get 2 crushing blocks for one traptreachery) and you can easily go for a hero hunt. the plus 2 commando over 6 spaces of the female lieutenant added to upgraded hellhounds with a steady summoning of grappling nagas which you throw at your front are deadly on any larger outdoor encounter. and once a hero dies he is gone for good, while you can summon a naga every second turn (you will definatly throw some surges for threat). how the heck are the heroes supposed to survive this? if they only throw one miss on the nage just grappling them another hero will go down. I dont see what they can do except hiding while i take out every single city in terrinoth...
but nevermind, my comet is already on its way and finally i ll be a god, as it was always mend to be! 
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Joe Barrett
United States
Virginia
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Re: Are my heroes pussies?
I think your subject is inappropriate and not being respectful of your players.
That said, it seems that RtL can be very sensitive to mistakes/luck. This seems to affect heroes more strongly than the OL. Since the "normal" result of most encounters is the heroes win, although at some non-zero cost, a player mistake/bad luck that leads them to multiple deaths is a lot more costly than the same happening to the OL where a mistake seems to typically be a slightly faster or cleaner move by the heroes.
Perhaps your players need to consider blitz as an opening or correct other errors. You may want to help them a bit in learning and refrain from "dancing on their graves."
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Lexingtonian
United States
Unspecified
Massachusetts
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Re: Are my heroes pussies?
BarrettJG wrote: I think your subject is inappropriate and not being respectful of your players.
Just be aware that that use of "pussies" equates weakness with femaleness.
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ok ok i am sorry for the title! the correct word in german is "waschlappen" and has got nothing to do with female genitals at all. "waschlappen" is not even a very strong word and the american translation for "waschlappen" was pussy. however: ill change it. to sissies
I hereby apologise to anyone who might have felt upset or disturbed by my very bad translation.
my heroes however, they dont mind. and shiver/landrec was in fact played by a girl.
nough said about political correctnes, back on topic.
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T. B.
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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Re: Are my heroes pussies?
In my experience, it is extremely important that heroes make a priority of the following things-
Legendary areas- They really do need to do these, preferably before the OL has a chance to upgrade his monsters. The first one will give a great deal of money and fund training. The second one gives free skills, and the third upgrades all heroes' armor. These are very significant advantages, and the heroes should pull out all the stops to gain them, even if it means taking a wicked beating in getting through the dungeons.
Skill Training- The heroes need to learn all the skills and strategize about which character will get which combination. Skills are far more powerful than treasures, and cannot ever be taken away once the character has attained them.
Secret Training- There is no excuse for not hitting the secret training area once per campaign level. Fatigue is extremely important, and heroes should purchase this instead of health unless they start too weak to stand up to simple OL trap combos (like Brother Glyr).
These three things are what the heroes should be basing their entire strategy around. At the beginning of the game, they should focus on attaining as much gold as possible, preferably through blitzing (print out "the Art of the Blitz" and make them read it!), in order to fund their training. There really is no reason for them to go through a full normal dungeon during Copper.
I would also suggest adopting the Sea of Blood rules for a Tamalir siege (ie: the OL must raze four cities before attempting to win the game by destroying Tamalir). Doing so will also help draw your players back to the game as they will feel like they might have a fighting chance.
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Brad DeRan
United States
Columbus
Ohio
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here is a question, your campaign with shiver in it, was he wearing the robes or was he wearing regular armor? Because as far as i can tell in the campaign i am in in copper most melee monsters can't take the aura, that combined with ghost armor made him really hard to kill
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he was wearing a robe. but that still didnt help him much. he even had the holy aura abbility which gave him an aura of 5. but i simply ignored him with my melee units and took him down with skeletons.
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Brad DeRan
United States
Columbus
Ohio
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did he ever guard at all? i only ask because i know some people just don't
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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Didn't read the whole post (it's too long ) but I noticed one thing early on, your heroes get creamed on the 3rd level. This is *normal* in early Copper Campaign. Heroes are expected to die and die a lot, which is why blitzing is so important. Your heroes need to learn when to flee and not be afraid to flee. When *any* dungeon level starts (including the first one), the heroes need to evaluate the level and decide if they can earn more CT on this level than the Overlord. There is *zero* benefit to finishing a dungeon, and the deeper the heroes go, the harder it is (they've used potions, they're lower on health/fatigue, the OL has Power Cards in play, a lot of threat, some nice cherrypicked cards in his hand, probably Treachery cards too).
Flee, and flee often in early copper. The *Heroes* are in charge of much Conquest the OL earns. If the heroes flee before the OL killing them, they will stay in the lead.
-shnar
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Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
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Yes - or just not very good at the game. Being experienced at vanilla Descent does not equate to being good at Advanced Campaigns.
1. Too many melee heroes. Parties should be 1 tank/melee, 1 ranger, 1 mage and 1 runner. Ideally the runner can double as a second mage (Astarra, Thorn, Jaes), tank (Nanok, Jaes), Ranger (many) or just be a melee backup as well (Okaluk).
2. Don't mix rules. Nerf Nanok and then complain that the heroes are getting screwed (SOB Nanok is a very poor hero)? The OL is ahead by 70 by early gold despite Divine Favour? Either your players are very bad, or you aren't using Divine Favour...
3. Use the shop hammer to knockback monsters off glyphs and chests if necessary.
4. Silver monsters are not that hard to kill (well, tier 1 silver bosses are). Not with 1-2 sets of upgrades for the heroes. Make sure the runner gets useful upgrades for runners (Acrobat!) and the fighters get useful upgrades for fighters (dice upgrades, extra attack skills, bonus damage/surge skills).
5. Yes, Silver Razorwings outdoors are good. But there is only one encounter that has them, IIRC. You can't draw it all the time. Sometimes the OL does get good cards too! AoE weapons are a useful counter, and an acrobat, or flyer (feat card) can run past them as well.
5a. Yes, Alric has razorwings as well, but only Alric. The key to Lt fights is to hit them late in the campaign level when you have some upgrades and decent weapons and to have potions and feats prepared, and to be aggressive.
5b. Melee-intensive parties also have a weakness, and this is it. So sad, having a weakness actually exploited!
6. Speed is king. Hero parties can often do a first dungeon level so fast that the OL hardly gets an opportunity. I've done several play-by-play writeups of new heroes (no upgrades, one treasure and one potion each) clearing an entire level and allowing the OL only 1-2 turns, with no spawn possibilities. That includes the OL placing monsters on glyphs and treasures as appropriate, and with random-drawn hero parties/skills (draw 3 pick 1 hero method), not cherry-picked stuff.
7. The turn-around with good Silver weapons is immense - and even more with Gold items. Copper is hard for the heroes (though they shouldn't be so far behind), but if they can weather that and get through the achievement is much greater. Final Battles are heavily in the heroes' favour, so they should never give up...
8. You can always let another player OL and apply your OL experince on the hero side...
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Patrick Grogan
United States
Renfrew
Pennsylvania
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
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Curtis Anderson wrote: BarrettJG wrote: I think your subject is inappropriate and not being respectful of your players. Just be aware that that use of "pussies" equates weakness with femaleness.
Only if you are looking for sexism. The first thing I thought of was not equating weakness with women at all. You are the sexist for thinking that way.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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corbon wrote: 7. The turn-around with good Silver weapons is immense - and even more with Gold items. Copper is hard for the heroes (though they shouldn't be so far behind), but if they can weather that and get through the achievement is much greater. Final Battles are heavily in the heroes' favour, so they should never give up...
As a side note, if the Advanced Campaign is still something the hero players want to try, restart the campaign at Silver instead of Copper and maybe they'll feel like it's even footing then (though IMHO it /is/ even footing in Copper if you know the proper tactics).
-shnar
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Alain Gottcheiner
Belgium
Brussels
Unspecified
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Agree with Patrick.
Agree with many things that were said here, but not with the fact that one should tackle the Copper legendary dongeon early.
First, you need the Boat, and unless you have the Staff you'll risk a red encounter.
This means that, in order to tackle it before the OL enhances any monsters, you'll have to forfeit any training.
And then you'll be faced with 3 complete dungeon levels, which you have to get through however hard they are, and the final level against the dragons. How many lives will this cost ?
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Alain Gottcheiner
Belgium
Brussels
Unspecified
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BTW, I'd translate "Waschlappen" by "drips". It gets the same trickling feeling. (in French, there is the exact counterpart : "lavettes")
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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Merrimac wrote: Agree with many things that were said here, but not with the fact that one should tackle the Copper legendary dongeon early.
IMHO, the Copper Legendary Dungeon is only worth it if you hit the dungeon before the OL has upgraded his first monster group to Silver. If all the monsters in the dungeon are Copper level, then going 4 levels down isn't as hard. Make sure you've blitzed a good 3 or so dungeons first, gotten a good set of Copper weapons and maybe even upgraded a skill or dice trait first.
-shnar
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T. B.
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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Merrimac wrote:
And then you'll be faced with 3 complete dungeon levels, which you have to get through however hard they are, and the final level against the dragons. How many lives will this cost ?
This is where the runner comes in handy. The dragon doesn't appear until the encounter marker is picked up for 1,000 coins. There's no particularly good reason to kill the dragon (there's 12 points of CT in glyphs), just sacrifice your runner three times and come out with enough gold to train up (5,000 from the markers and the coin caches, plus whatever you earn on the previous levels). I agree that this is something that works best before the OL upgrades any monsters.
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Roman Konoval
Ukraine
Kiev
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corbon wrote:
6. ... I've done several play-by-play writeups of new heroes (no upgrades, one treasure and one potion each) clearing an entire level and allowing the OL only 1-2 turns, with no spawn possibilities. ...
Can you please share your notes? I'm asking because I'm preparing now the same notes to show the problem we have in our group, namely, heroes are too weak to fight in dungeons. Actually heroes are rarely able to get 4 XP (1 for dungeon activation + 3 for glyph activation) per dungeon in our case. Mostly they have to escape to avoid substantial XP loss.
It looks like there is some hero tactics I'm absolutely missing, because, in our games new heroes can take more CTs than overlord in the first level of dungeons only if overlord is absolutely unlucky with cards.
We've tried a dozen of dungeons and now are trying to incorporate some home rules to balance dungeons. We included the following and now are testing them
1. Overlord is now allowed to spawn during his first three turns.
2. Overlord gets only 3 threats per turn in dungeon.
So I'm repeating my request, can you share your notes with us?
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Patrick Grogan
United States
Renfrew
Pennsylvania
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
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If you use the spawn tracker(the "eyes" token) I don't think dungeons really need to be balanced. Its about the Heroes being careful. Is your overlord extremely experienced with new heroes? This might be part of the problem.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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Your heroes are probably a lot more timid than they should/need to be. I've noticed two styles of play with heroes: Fast & furious vs. slow & timid. The Fast & Furious move every turn (usually Advance, sometimes Sprint) and send all their fatigue every turn for more movement, usually drinking a Fatigue Potion every turn. The Slow & Timid heroes tend to Ready every turn, usually moving forward a little bit and then going on Guard. Between the two, the Fast & Furious group always wins out.
Guard only gives one attack. If the hero had just ran up with fatigue, he could have had one or even two attacks (not counting special abilities/skills). The Fast group usually gets better treasures within the first or second turn. They aren't too worried about a creature or two hitting them, since they can heal up or go to town. They even expect a death or two and plan for it, sending their lowest CP hero to grab treasures and glyphs before dying (Heroes earn 3CP, OL only 2CP, seems like a fair trade).
Are the heroes in your group too timid?
-shnar
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Patrick Grogan
United States
Renfrew
Pennsylvania
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
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shnar wrote: Your heroes are probably a lot more timid than they should/need to be. I've noticed two styles of play with heroes: Fast & furious vs. slow & timid. The Fast & Furious move every turn (usually Advance, sometimes Sprint) and send all their fatigue every turn for more movement, usually drinking a Fatigue Potion every turn. The Slow & Timid heroes tend to Ready every turn, usually moving forward a little bit and then going on Guard. Between the two, the Fast & Furious group always wins out.
Guard only gives one attack. If the hero had just ran up with fatigue, he could have had one or even two attacks (not counting special abilities/skills). The Fast group usually gets better treasures within the first or second turn. They aren't too worried about a creature or two hitting them, since they can heal up or go to town. They even expect a death or two and plan for it, sending their lowest CP hero to grab treasures and glyphs before dying (Heroes earn 3CP, OL only 2CP, seems like a fair trade).
Are the heroes in your group too timid?
-shnar
My group of heroes is a combination of both of these. And we seem to do quite well. Generally one of the two high health heroes in my current campaign will get in the front of the group with a guard order( and the one has defender skill and always a shield so it works well for those adjacent to him) while the other heroes will either advance, ready(move and get an interrupt token ready) or battle action. I think we have found the balance between timid protectors and balls to wall attackers.
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Roman Konoval
Ukraine
Kiev
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corkysru wrote: If you use the spawn tracker(the "eyes" token) I don't think dungeons really need to be balanced. Its about the Heroes being careful. Is your overlord extremely experienced with new heroes? This might be part of the problem.
We do use spawn tracker, but it doesn't help. Our group (both heroes and overlord) played about 4-5 quests from base Descent, but each quest for 5-6 and even more times. I can say overlord has much more experience than heroes. Actually I'm overlord and I also have no idea how heroes can improve there play extremely, that's why I mention some dungeon crawling strategy (or rather tactics in RtL) I'm missing.
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Roman Konoval
Ukraine
Kiev
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shnar wrote:
Are the heroes in your group too timid?
Our hero group is neither timid nor furious, or rather it combines both.
If there is a possibility for 2 or 3 CP hero to run and collect gold/treasure and/or activate glyph heroes use it, but mostly overlord blocks paths to goods.
Overlord strategy is mainly the following
1. block paths to glyph/gold
2. concentrate forces as much as possible
3. at the same time stay at distance to avoid "run for fatigue and battle" hero tactics
4. and the ultimate goal is kill one 3 or 4 CP hero by hitting him/her hopefully all monsters at once having either
4a master beastman nearby
4b one or two heroes deactivated using web/stun/etc
4c play several traps
This OL strategy in most cases allows effectively disallow runner get XP and gold. Moreover in most cases it allows overlord kill 3 or ever 4 CP hero with almost no advance in dungeon crawling goals for heroes.
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Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
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romanko wrote: [q="corbon"]
So I'm repeating my request, can you share your notes with us?
It seems I kept the text files, which was lucky because I couldn't find the write-ups searching...
The Mission Impossible files: (quite long)
Mission 23
lilililililililililililii lil! dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dididuuuum dididuuuum dididuuuum didi!
Your mission Jim-Okaluk, should you choose to accept it, is to take your team through a dungeon level, collect the loot, kill the boss and escape in less than two turns. Your team is new, but capable.
Alongside yourself as team Leader you will have Blessed Runemaster Thorn, with his Crystalise Rune and One-Fist with his Belt of Strength and that curious Tiger Tattoo he sports. Last and very much least I'm afraid you are going to need to work with that crazed deviant Landrec with his Staff of 'Punishment'. At least he is Quick-casting!
Each team member will have one item from the stores, and one vial of combat drugs. Blah blah blah. This message will self destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, fizzzzzt, poof.
...
Level 23 Pit Fiend
All right lads, here's the plan. The bad guys have Razorwings (5W3A) here, here, and here, sitting on the coin piles and glyph. Another Razorwing is in the south west corner of the main room where he will be in the best position to conterattack in several directions. A Master Ferrox ( 6W4A) is sitting on the treasure chest marked here, with an X. One-fist, you take the Ferrox - gut him with your hook and scare the others. Thorn - yours is the south-west coin pile Razorwing. Take him down and grab the cash. Landrec, you... no, I'm not interested in a little side punishment thank you, shut up and listen. Landrec, you run forward into the main room, sight up the boss (14W5A) and be ready. I'll take the first coin pile Razorwing and then give you the signal to blast the boss. Landrec, you'll probably take somne punishment in the counterattack... yes, I knew you'd prefer it that way, but we'll have your back. Oh, and everyone, watch out for pits. The OL has some secret technology that makes them move around.
Starting on glyph, clockwise round;
Okaluk, Leadership, Axe, Leather, Ring of Quickness (Hammer in pack)
Thorn with Blessing, Bronze pierce rune, Mage robes, Fatigue pot, Ghost Armour
Landrec with Quick Casting, Staff of Punishment, Chainmail, Power Pot
One fist with Tiger Tattoo, Sword, Shield, Belt of Strength, Power Pot, Ring of Quickness
One Fist Runs (10MP) spending 9MP to get adjacent to the Master Ferrox on the Chest, and the last MP for a Power pot. He uses his Claw attack for (RGagagagb+1) 10 damage killing the Master Ferrox. 1 Fatigue moves him onto the chest, 2 Fatigue to open the chest, 1 Fatigue remains unspent.
Landrec Runs (6MP) heading north to the edge of the large roon, then spends 2 Fatigue to Move into the room and beside the pits (now in sight and at Range 3 of the Boss) and 1 fatigue to chug a Power Pot. Landrec has 2 Fatigue left.
Okaluk Readies, paying 1 fatigue to use leadership, giving him 6MP, an attack and an Order. He places the Order, a Guard, on Landrec. He advances 6 spaces to be adjacent to the coin pile and attacks the Razorwing with his Axe for (RGbb) 7 damage. He spends his last fatigue on an extra black dice (~) and kills the razorwing. He uses the MP from the Ring of Quickness to move onto the Coin pile. He has 0 fatigue remaining.
Thorn Advances (5MP) spending his 5 MP to Teleport beside the Razorwing in the corner. He then attacks the Razorwing with his Pierce Rune for (WGbbb) 6 damage and 3 surges (Pierce 6), killing the razorwing. He spends 1 fatigue to move onto the coin pile. He has 3 Fatigue remaining.
As the OL begins his turn, Landrec interrupts and shoots the Boss with his Staff of Punishment (WGauauag) for 1 range, 11 damage and 4+2 surges. 2 of the surges are spent on range, 4 on damage, for 15 damage on the boss (takes 10 wounds). Landrec then Quick casts (2 fatigue) and shoots the Boss again (WGbbb) for 3 Range, 5 damage and 3+2 Surges. All surges are spent on damage and the Boss is killed.
The OL now has 0 spawning spots and 2 Razorwings left. OL rolls a 2/2 on the white dice and is able to drop a pit under Landrec. The topmost pit moves backward and now sits between the glyph and the door. Landrec takes 2 poison damage from the pit. The Razorwing from the glyph moves 3 to sit beside Landrec and hits him (RG) for 6 damage (4 wounds), then moves 3 back to continue sitting on the Glyph. The second Razorwing also attacks Landrec for 5 damage (3 wounds) and then moves to stand in front of the doorway on the south side.
Thorn Declares an Advance (5MP), teleports to the end of the corridor beside the glyph/Razorwing and Shoots it with his Pierce Rune (WGbbb) for 7 Damage and 4 surges, more than enough to kill it. He spend 1 fatigue to move on the Glyph and Activate it, 1 fatigue for a MP and his last fatigue to chug a Fatigue pot. He spends his 4 fatigue on MP and now has 5 MP - 2 to the doorway (around the pit), 2 to open the door, 1 to enter the portal.
Landrec Runs (6MP) spending 2 to get out of the pit and 3 more to enter the portal.
One Fist Runs (10MP) straight to the portal.
Okaluk Runs (12MP) and can jump over the Pits blocking the western corridor and still exit the Portal using the extra MP fromn his ring to get around the last Razorwing.
Heroes go to town for healing, market and potions at the start of the next dungeon with possibly 1 making a dash for cash if it looks suitable (probably Okaluk, relying on stealth and a dodge(?) to survive and his Hammer to get where he wants to).
2 Hero turns, 1 OL turn, every hero exited, 2 coin piles and a Treasure Chest looted, the Boss dead, the Glyph activated, no heroes dead. Only requirement is in his first 5 cards the OL doesn't have a space trap, the door trap that ends the hero turn, or the Mimic Chest trap (in his first 2 cards - and another card worth enough threat so he can play it before he gets a turn). If the OL has a Rage card then he will probably get 2 CT for killing Landrec.
All rolls were made with a dice roller, the exception being that I didn't allow any Xs (ie rerolled that dice). I think Landrec's rolls might have been maximums, but that is not hard when ~ = +1 damage. Definitely the other rolls were not maximums.
Mission 16
Team 2
lilililililililililililii lillll dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dididuuuum dididuuuum dididuuuum didi!
Your mission Jim-Karnon, should you choose to accept it, is to take your team through a dungeon level, collect the loot, kill the boss and escape in less than two turns. Your team is new, but capable.
Alongside yourself as team Leader (Chainmail, Dragontooth Hammer, Ring of Protection) you will have the Spiritwalker Andira Runehand with her Cone of Fire and Wizards Robe, that Able Warrior Brother Glyr with his chainmail, sword, shield and Belt of Strength, and, I'm sorry to say, the Eagle-Eyed wild man Ronan (leather, crossbow, shield, Ring of Quickness. Don't let his annoying pet Pico get to you, he's a good man and will come in handy.
Each team member will have one item from the stores (Bronze Treasure), and one syringe of combat drugs (potion). Blah blah blah. This message will self destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, fizzzzzt, poof.
...
Level 16
All right team, here is the plan. The bad guys have a Master Naga (8/4 Grapple) immediately in front of the Boss (16/4) blocking the way through. Immediately in front of her, bar a single space gap, and slightly closer to us is a Banespider (4W/1A). Another Banespider crouches in the rear closet beyond the Boss and a third spider sits in the southernmost alcove of the main room. 2 Sorcerers (5W2A) of evil repute cower in the westerly closet, sitting atop a glyph and a coin pile.
Glyr, you take out the two spiders nearest us. That will open the way for Ronan to push through to the Master Naga for Andira to use her spiritwalker. Ronan, use your crossbow to take out one of the Sorcerers at some stage. You might lend Pico to Andira as well, since she is going up against the tough stuff. Andira, you will strike through the Naga at the Boss with your Breathe weapon and I'll tidy up any leavings in reserve. Got it? Go!
Glyr: Advances (2+2MP) (from the rear of the party), spending 2 fatigue to get 2 attacks, 2 fatigue for MP and 1 for a fatigue potion. He then moves forward 6 spaces, spends 4 more fatigue and ends up between the two spiders, one space diagonally out from the southeast corner of the main room. His two attacks with a sword (RGbbb) easily take care of the two spiders. He has 1 fatigue left and ended his movement on a ? - OL gains 2 threat.
Ronan: Advances (5MP) spending 1MP from his Ring of Quickness to give it to Andira and 3 fatigue for movement, 1 for a fatigue potion and 4 more to end on the Naga's southeast corner, picking up the side coin pile on the way, 2 spaces from both Sorcerers. He the shoots a Sorcerer with his crossbow (BGbb), getting 3 range, 4 damage and 3 surges. The surges becomes damage (1 spare) and with the 2 Pierce from Eagle eye the Sorcerer dies. He has no fatigue left and ended his movement on a ? - Ol gains 2 threat and can play a chest trap (except he probably doesn't have one in his starting 2 cards).
Andira: Battles (0MP) (from the rear of the party) spending 3 fatigue for MP, 1 for a Fatigue Potion, 4 more for MP and 1MP from Ronan's Ring to move forward 8 spaces to the edge of the main room. She is now with 5 spaces of Ronan and uses her Spiritwalker ability to shoot the Cone of fire northward twice, through the Master Naga (back corner), the Boss and just clipping the spider skulking in the corner. Her first attack is WYbbbb with pierce 2 and does 9 damage pierce 2 - killing the spider and doing 7 wounds each to the boss and the Naga. Her second attack is a miss. She has no fatigue left.
Karnon: Readies with Leader (4MP) for 1 fatigue. Spends 2 fatigue for MP and 1 more for a fatigue potion. spends 3 fatigue to move beside the Naga against the wall and attacks with his DragonTooth Hammer (RGbbbbb Pierce2) for some damage, killing it. He spends his last fatigue to move beside the Boss and gives himself a Guard order. He has no fatigue left. Before the OL can draw cards or gain threat he will interrupt and attack the Boss for 12 Pierce 2 damage, 1 more than necessary to kill it.
There is one spawn space available, right in the corner of the end corridor beside the coin pile (so a single 1 space monster may be spawned) and only a single sorcerer left alive. The nearest hero is Karnon, 5 spaces away, so a Lone Medusa, Master Dark Priest or Master Beastman are the best bets. I'll take the Master Beastman as most common and hard hitting, so the Sorcerer will go second, focusing on Karnon and taking advantage of Command. Master Beastman rolls RYb+4 for 8 damage vs Karnon's 4 Armour (1+Chainmail+ Ring of Protection). Karnon takes 4 wounds. The Sorcerer rolls WY+1(command)+3(Sorcery) for 8 damage and another 4 wounds to Karnon (who has 8 left). Because of the position of Ronan the Sorcerer can't shoot Karnon and get back to the glyph so he ends beside Karnon trying to generally get in the way.
Karnon: Advances (4MP) hitting the Master Beastman for 9 pierce 2 damage and killing it, then moving 4 spaces down the northern side of the back alcove to end one short of the coin pile
Glyr: Readies using his special 2MP and last fatigue to move to the ? beside the sorcerer and hits the Sorcerer with his Sword for 6 damage. He places a Guard on himself (if he'd killed the Sorcerer it would have been a Rest). Glyr ends his movement of a ? and the OL gains 3 threat. He hasn't used any Treasure item yet. Maybe he has the Bag of Holding?
Andira: Readies (4MP) moving 5 spaces (4MP + Ring of Quickness) to the southeast ?, then Rests. Heroes curse as Ol gains 2 more threat.
Ronan: Readies (5MP) moving on to the Glyph to activate it then 3 spaces diagonally southwest (through Andira) in order to prevent spawning and Rests.
There are no spawn spaces and no live monsters (Glyr's Guard kills the last Sorcerer).
Turn three, heroes simply run for the portal - Ronan first, picking up the coin-pile on the way to the door and sending 2 fatigue to open the door. Glyr's 6 MP get him out, Andira's 9 get her out and Karnon can pick up the coinpile first and get out with a couple of MP to spare. A nicely timed space trap will leave Glyr or Andira to be mobbed by a spawn giving the OL 3-4 CT.
Heroes gained 2(Boss)+3(glyph).
OL still only had 2 turns. Heroes cleaned up everything by the end of turn 2, including the 4 'end on' ? spots.
Mission ?(oops, no number - you should be able to figure out which dungeon from the text, sorry)
lilililililililililililii lil! dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dum-dumdumdum dididuuuum dididuuuum dididuuuum didi!
Your mission Lord Jim Hawthorne, should you choose to accept it, is to take your team through a dungeon level, collect the loot, kill the boss and escape in less than two turns. Your team is new, but capable.
Alongside yourself as team Leader (Chainmail, Axe, Crystal of Tival) you will have the Knight, Nara the Fang with her famed Boneblade and Morningstar combo, the dread (and cold) wizard Shiver, Aura and all and, sorry about this Lord Jim, that stinky shaman Mok with his Water Pact. If you can get past the smell you'll find him to be a damned useful team member.
Each team member will have one item from the stores (Bronze Treasure), and one syringe of combat drugs (potion). Blah blah blah. This message will self distruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, fizzzzzt, poof.
Right team, here's the plan. Mok, you'll kick us off with a little bit of your staffing specialty. Shiver, you run through to the west wing, nullifying the skulking razorwings there and preventing spawning. Nara, you do your thing on the troll/golem and then the Boss afterward. I'll follow you, cleaning up after and then move into the north wing to prevent spawning. Got it? Go!
Mok: Battles, (from the back) spending 3 fatigue to move forward and across 3 spaces so that all three team members will be under his breath template. He then staves them, spending Enhancements on range and not spending surges. He may do 1 damage to Hawthorne and Shiver on a max WY roll. He uses Water Pact to Knockback all three fellow team members forward 3 spaces. He then spends his last fatigue to move diagonally backwards to again fit all three under the template and staves them again for another 3 knockback points forwards. Mok has 0 fatigue left and 1 vial of combat drugs.
Shiver: Runs (8MP) to the left wing preventing any spawning. His Aura (5) will prevent either of the Razorwings there from either attacking him or getting past. Shiver has 4 fatigue left and 1 vial of combat drugs.
Nara: Battles, spending 2 fatigue to activate her Knight skill and gain 2MP and 3 attacks. She advances to the Golem/Troll and attacks (RGbbb+1+~) for 10 damage, +3 damage for her special on a 4 space monster, which is enough to kill the Troll/Golem. She moves forward again, spending fatigue as well and executes her second attack on the Boss for 10 damage (6 wounds). She spends her last fatigue to inject with a Fatigue drug and attacks with RGbbb+1+~ for 10 damage (6 wounds). She spends her last three fatigue getting around the boss to prevent spawning in the east wing. Nara has no Fatigue and no combat drugs left.
Hawthorne: Readies (leadership special) with 1 fatigue (4MP), spends 2 fatigue to move forward into the north wing, 1 fatigue to drink a fatigue pot and attacks the razorwing there using his Reach. He places a Guard order on Nara...
At this point the mission files are cut off. Without the dungeon in front of me, I can't rewrite the remainder - however it is fairly obvious that Nara is going to use her guard order to try and kill the boss and that most, maybe all, spawning is covered.
I hope those help. They are predicated mostly on the OL having very limited starting resources and not the few cards that will screw the plan. They also only work for the smaller dungeons, and won't work all the time. The treasures available are probably carefully selected rather than random but I think no treasure is repeated so I tried for variety there (and, for example Glyr never used one, and Ronan passed his to someone else), but the heroes and skills were selected by standard methods.
OTOH, they show how to make the best use of limited hero resources to really come out of the blocks in a hurry. And the use of heroes such as Shiver (rubbish in general), Mok (weak starting), Andira (struggles to be called average) and Glyr (who is a very slow starter), and the non use of legends like Nanok, Astarra, Zyla, Tahlia (or acrobat skill) show that they really were proper random picks, not super good combos.
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Alain Gottcheiner
Belgium
Brussels
Unspecified
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To T.B. : please notice that you aren't allowed to pick up the gems in the second and third rooms unless you have killed the Dragon.This is written in the scenario notes.
So, there is indeed an incentive to kill the Dragon.
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T. B.
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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Merrimac wrote: To T.B. : please notice that you aren't allowed to pick up the gems in the second and third rooms unless you have killed the Dragon.This is written in the scenario notes.
So, there is indeed an incentive to kill the Dragon.
OOPS
Well, that does change things, doesn't it?
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Posted Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:43 am
