Andrew Chapman
Australia
Norwood
SA
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This session completed the campaign. I have to say that it was a rather disappointing end all round, even though I won as the OL. This report will be brief, since not a lot happened.
Week 20 continued:
The heroes finished their turn by healing in Tamalir and upgrading the walls to 7 strength.
Week 21:
This session started with Alric sieging Tamalir with 5 siege tokens. For my OL upgrade I purchased the Transport Cystal and sent Thaad straight to Tamalir to backup Alric.
The heroes frantically trained and upgraded every dice they could, deciding to chance a siege die roll.
Week 22:
Thaad rolled to resolve the siege (since he reduces wall strength by 1) and rolled a surge. Tamalir falls. Campaign is over. Very dissatisfying for all involved.
The heroes were curious to see how they would have gone against Thaad and Alric, so we played the encounter with Thaad, but he - like Alric - was just too strong at the start of silver. The heroes wounded him, but once Valadir fell they felt like they had no hope and abandoned the attempt. We had a game of Dominion instead.
I've got to say that I think the whole campaign hanging on successfully sieging a single city seems a bit silly. Also, the lieutenants at the start of silver were just vastly overpowering for this set of heroes (Valadir, Ronin, Vyrah and Mok).
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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Deodand wrote: I've got to say that I think the whole campaign hanging on successfully sieging a single city seems a bit silly.
Which is why we've implemented the Sea of Blood variant house-rule: Tamalir cannot be sieged until 4 other cities have been razed. Keeps the campaign from ending anti-climactic like.
-shnar
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Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
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Deodand wrote:
I've got to say that I think the whole campaign hanging on successfully sieging a single city seems a bit silly. Also, the lieutenants at the start of silver were just vastly overpowering for this set of heroes (Valadir, Ronin, Vyrah and Mok).
Fact is, the heroes can get back to Tamalir at any time they choose. It also can have extremely high defenses.
Your major problem was this:
Quote: Week 18:
...They (the heroes) entered the Bitter Downs dungeon. This was auto resolved for (+19) [+22], with two empty chests (+2). This was counted as a completed dungeon, so the heroes returned to Tamalir. The campaign stage moves to Silver.
Conquest: Heroes - 107; OL - 57/117
In a normal campaign the heroes could have grabbed some loot in this dungeon and fled back to Tamalir well before the level changed. They would then have a week or two to train, build the walls, shop for treasures and potions etc, and generally prepare for the Lt fight and hit Alric before the level switched to Silver. At that stage the Lt fight is much, much easier for them.
Your auto-resolution system killed their ability to fine-tune their defense. I'm not sure if that is due to the system or due to your players not being aware of the implications. Tamalir is not easy for the OL to raze if the heroes are paying attention. But if the heroes ignore the gathering storm, or mess up their response, they have only themselves to blame.
The second point is this:
Quote: The heroes... deciding to chance a siege die roll.
Week 22:
Thaad rolled to resolve the siege (since he reduces wall strength by 1) and rolled a surge. Tamalir falls. Campaign is over. Very dissatisfying for all involved.
You takes your chances, you takes your lumps, no whinging about unsatisfactoriness thank you. 
(Yes, I know they 'tried and failed' afterwards, but that failure is mostly due to the previous point. And the comment about no whinging isn't personal, it is directly related to the takes-your-chances-takes-your-lumps point).
I've argued in other threads why Sh'nar's adoption of the SoB rule is in this case badly flawed, and although his group is happy with it and is welcome to play the game whatever way they want, I haven't seen the slightest resemblance of a good argument for it (except, 'we like it', which is fair enough), let alone a counter to any of the arguments why it is flawed.
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Andrew Chapman
Australia
Norwood
SA
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corbon wrote: Your major problem was this: Quote: Week 18:
...They (the heroes) entered the Bitter Downs dungeon. This was auto resolved for (+19) [+22], with two empty chests (+2). This was counted as a completed dungeon, so the heroes returned to Tamalir. The campaign stage moves to Silver.
Conquest: Heroes - 107; OL - 57/117 In a normal campaign the heroes could have grabbed some loot in this dungeon and fled back to Tamalir well before the level changed. They would then have a week or two to train, build the walls, shop for treasures and potions etc, and generally prepare for the Lt fight and hit Alric before the level switched to Silver. At that stage the Lt fight is much, much easier for them. Your auto-resolution system killed their ability to fine-tune their defense. I'm not sure if that is due to the system or due to your players not being aware of the implications. Tamalir is not easy for the OL to raze if the heroes are paying attention. But if the heroes ignore the gathering storm, or mess up their response, they have only themselves to blame.
I agree with you on both points: the auto-resolution pushed them into silver plus this was coupled with inexperience (on all sides). I think if they had fought the dungeon they would have gone the whole way through and been in the same place anyway. None of us really understood quite how powerful silver lieutenants are.
I've been pondering this since the night we finished up. I have an idea how to tweak my system (let heroes complete an unexplored dungeon as a "flee" for no conquest on either side rather than resolving identically to the previous dungeon), but I still can't see why the OL would not gather his lieutenants and strike with the lot the moment that the campaign moved to silver. I realise the "Go straight for Tamalir" strategy has been discussed elsewhere on this forum (I read it).
I understand the appeal of Shnar's fix, which would appear to be the same conclusion that the game designers came to when trying to fix the campaign in Sea of Blood. Perhaps one day they will errata it into existence for RtL, too.
I look forward to playing this game more. Unfortunately I sense I will have to wait a while before inflicting it upon my gaming group again. And how to twist someone else's arm to be OL?
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Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
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Another point worth noting is that the Titan is more or less unable to win in any other way, and is the best OL at winning in this particular way.
Good hero players make spawning often nearly impossible in RtL, especially close enough to use a humanoid spawn effectively, so the Titan is quite weak in dungeons. Of course, against not-so-good hero players he is still very strong in dungeons because humanoids are unquestionably the hardest hitters if they can get an attack in...
His real strength is his location - very close to Tamalir and also several other cities, and his special Lt also adds to the Tamalir Raze win more than any other.
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Alain Gottcheiner
Belgium
Brussels
Unspecified
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Surely this is an important element - when playing against the Titan one should ve doubly wary of possible rushes to Tamalir;
Notice that, however sensible, implementing the SoB rule won't change the fact that Tamalir's fate and the campaign's issue will depend on a single die roll once the conditions are met.
IMOBO the Titan could win an Ascension campaign, as he could be more or less ready at early Gold, as cities fall easier to him. Just be careful to buy the Comet card when they are far from you, e.g. at Olmric's.
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