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Dominion: Alchemy» Forums » General

Subject: Will Dominion ever make new cards with potions? rss

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Mike Beiter
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Has there ever been any talk of further alchemy themed cards to be released in future Dominion expansions?
Like a sequel to Dominion Alchemy, or just simply release more cards with potions in their purchase costs in later expansions?
The potions introduce a great new aspect to the game and I would hope they continue to keep adding more cards to it to keep the potion themes fresh.
Or is the point of each Dominion expansion to add new and unique card themes to the game and not flesh out older ones, like the orange cards from Seaside for example, will we ever see more of those?
 
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Mike S.
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It has been said in a previews thread that there will be no future Potion related cards.
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Jeremy Volk
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I think Potions are annoying, so I'm alright with never seeing them again, but durations are what put the greatness into the best set of the pre-Prosperity age, so I kind of hope they aren't dead yet.
 
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Duncan
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I think one reason given that there are no more potion cards forth coming is that the set would either require Alchemy (and Dominion is to have no dependence between expansions) or would need to include more potions. I suppose in a few years people might be glad of the replacements for worn cards but otherwise this feels like a waste of space. It is frustatrating there is no plan to have more duration cards though, these are fully independant on Seaside and more of them would be welcome as the game grows.
I suppose at some distant point after 2012 (this is when Donald X. says his current plans extend to, from memory) when (not if) Dominion continues we might be fortunate (?) to get duration cards which cost potions.
 
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Phil Sauer
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johnweldy wrote:
BaconSnake wrote:
I think Potions are retarted,


Wow, that's extremely offensive! Do you regularly demean other races, religions and sexual orientations, too, or is it limited to those with unfortunate genetic conditions?

While I certainly don't agree with the choice of (or spelling of) words used by the referenced poster, you now have the freedom to discriminate accordingly and choose to never associate with him over this matter.

I may follow suit, however it is worth saying that I would never deny him the freedom to use any words he wishes to describe Potions. That is simply his opinion, and he's free to express it -- even if he did happen to demean other races, religions, or orientations (regularly or sparingly).

It's only my opinion, but we're far too sensitive about matters that are of trivial importance in our culture.

Peace out, man.
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aaxiom wrote:
johnweldy wrote:
BaconSnake wrote:
I think Potions are retarted,


Wow, that's extremely offensive! Do you regularly demean other races, religions and sexual orientations, too, or is it limited to those with unfortunate genetic conditions?

While I certainly don't agree with the choice of (or spelling of) words used by the referenced poster, you now have the freedom to discriminate accordingly and choose to never associate with him over this matter.

I may follow suit, however it is worth saying that I would never deny him the freedom to use any words he wishes to describe Potions. That is simply his opinion, and he's free to express it -- even if he did happen to demean other races, religions, or orientations (regularly or sparingly).

It's only my opinion, but we're far too sensitive about matters that are of trivial importance in our culture.

Peace out, man.


Just because he has the right to say something doesn't mean he's right to say it. It's a slur, and completely inappropriate. IMO, we're not nearly sensitive enough about matters such as this, but maybe I'm just sensitive to it because it's still "cool" to hate on people with my condition too.
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Phil Sauer
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Medusas wrote:
aaxiom wrote:
johnweldy wrote:
BaconSnake wrote:
I think Potions are retarted,


Wow, that's extremely offensive! Do you regularly demean other races, religions and sexual orientations, too, or is it limited to those with unfortunate genetic conditions?

While I certainly don't agree with the choice of (or spelling of) words used by the referenced poster, you now have the freedom to discriminate accordingly and choose to never associate with him over this matter.

I may follow suit, however it is worth saying that I would never deny him the freedom to use any words he wishes to describe Potions. That is simply his opinion, and he's free to express it -- even if he did happen to demean other races, religions, or orientations (regularly or sparingly).

It's only my opinion, but we're far too sensitive about matters that are of trivial importance in our culture.

Peace out, man.


Just because he has the right to say something doesn't mean he's right to say it. It's a slur, and completely inappropriate. IMO, we're not nearly sensitive enough about matters such as this, but maybe I'm just sensitive to it because it's still "cool" to hate on people with my condition too.

I didn't say that he was "right" or that there weren't consequences for the guy to use the language he used. I don't mean to imply that we shouldn't impose such consequences... but he has the right to express himself and bear those consequences -- that's all. Do I support or endorse his position? No. Do I defend his right to speak freely? Yes.

As an aside, is it really "cool" to "hate" on people? I mean, really. Whatever condition you have does not DEFINE you. YOU define you. If others are too stupid to see that, you aren't going to fix that... that's all.

Again... you have value. The consequences of his words is that you don't associate with him. He loses as a result. This is most unfortunate, and the only point I'm really making.
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aaxiom wrote:
Medusas wrote:
aaxiom wrote:
johnweldy wrote:
BaconSnake wrote:
I think Potions are retarted,


Wow, that's extremely offensive! Do you regularly demean other races, religions and sexual orientations, too, or is it limited to those with unfortunate genetic conditions?

While I certainly don't agree with the choice of (or spelling of) words used by the referenced poster, you now have the freedom to discriminate accordingly and choose to never associate with him over this matter.

I may follow suit, however it is worth saying that I would never deny him the freedom to use any words he wishes to describe Potions. That is simply his opinion, and he's free to express it -- even if he did happen to demean other races, religions, or orientations (regularly or sparingly).

It's only my opinion, but we're far too sensitive about matters that are of trivial importance in our culture.

Peace out, man.


Just because he has the right to say something doesn't mean he's right to say it. It's a slur, and completely inappropriate. IMO, we're not nearly sensitive enough about matters such as this, but maybe I'm just sensitive to it because it's still "cool" to hate on people with my condition too.

I didn't say that he was "right" or that there weren't consequences for the guy to use the language he used. I don't mean to imply that we shouldn't impose such consequences... but he has the right to express himself and bear those consequences -- that's all. Do I support or endorse his position? No. Do I defend his right to speak freely? Yes.

As an aside, is it really "cool" to "hate" on people? I mean, really. Whatever condition you have does not DEFINE you. YOU define you. If others are too stupid to see that, you aren't going to fix that... that's all.

Again... you have value. The consequences of his words is that you don't associate with him. He loses as a result. This is most unfortunate, and the only point I'm really making.


Shunning him won't solve anything. He'll simply move on to another group and infect others with his ignorance. So yes, by not trying to correct his behavior, we all lose.

I do not define myself by my condition, but others do. Why? Unchallenged media stereotypes. They don't know that what they see on TV is in no way the reality of my life. That's what I meant by cool.
 
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David Moffett
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Guys... it's a word. You're putting way to much thought into something I'm sure he wrote without any thought at all. My sister is retarded, do I care that he used the word? No. Do you call people idiots or morons ever? Those are both classifications of intelligence, defunct classifications but classifications none-the-less, they both developed a derogatory meaning and fell out of favor but there are still people who would fall into both categories. It might be in bad taste to actually call an inanimate object retarded and yes, I'll agree, even unnecessary but to actually be offended by it?

People are so thin skinned these days. shake

Oh, uh on topic, I always thought the potions were kind of a bad idea. But I'm sure there are people who like them and it would seem odd to not expound on the idea.
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Phil Sauer
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Medusas wrote:
I do not define myself by my condition, but others do. Why?

Why permit the weaknesses and ignorance of others to have the immense power to screw your happiness on this planet up so much?

You grant them permission to do so... you give them the power to do so... they cannot without your consent.

Where your pride and feelings are concerned, you've been given thicker skin. Where your INTERESTS are concerned, you've been given attorneys. This is a pride and feeling issue, and as such (as another poster pointed out), a thicker skin is in order.

By the way, lest you think I'm singling you out here, I would feel equally comfortable addressing matters of race, sexual orientation, eye color, cereal brand preference, forehead slope, and the myriad ways in which people wish to clump themselves together -- in precisely the same way.
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Phil Sauer
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ReinhartTR wrote:
Oh, uh on topic, I always thought the potions were kind of a bad idea. But I'm sure there are people who like them and it would seem odd to not expound on the idea.

I thought that potions felt "shoehorned" into the game somehow... I have not liked playing with them, but I will continue to do so as there is probably some nuance I'm missing that will click for me.

I recall disliking Dominion when I first was introduced to it. After half a year away from it, I played it again and saw a great game. Perhaps potions are that way... thus I persist.
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aaxiom wrote:
Medusas wrote:
I do not define myself by my condition, but others do. Why?

Why permit the weaknesses and ignorance of others to have the immense power to screw your happiness on this planet up so much?

You grant them permission to do so... you give them the power to do so... they cannot without your consent.

Where your pride and feelings are concerned, you've been given thicker skin. Where your INTERESTS are concerned, you've been given attorneys. This is a pride and feeling issue, and as such (as another poster pointed out), a thicker skin is in order.

By the way, lest you think I'm singling you out here, I would feel equally comfortable addressing matters of race, sexual orientation, eye color, cereal brand preference, forehead slope, and the myriad ways in which people wish to clump themselves together -- in precisely the same way.


I am not offended or insulted by this discussion. Believe it or not, I agree with most of what you are saying.

I am simply trying to better people. Most people use slurs out of ignorance; no one ever bothered to tell them such behavior is inappropriate. Using words such as "stupid", "retarded" or "gay" as slang for unpleasant or undesirable is not acceptable, because the user is disparaging an entire group by doing so.

As to a "thicker skin", the ability to ignore insults is an inherent personality trait. One can't simply toughen up; maybe he can change with serious long-term effort, maybe not at all. Some people can laugh off insults, others react with violence, and others run home and cry. None of these characteristics makes one better or worse than anyone else. We are all different and thus react differently to different provocations.
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Max Maloney
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"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
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I think Alchemy is underrated. When it came out, it didn't live up to expectations and people didn't much enjoy "Alchemy" games (which they were probably playing because they were the new cards). However, we always just mix them into the fully randomized process. We don't even use the "3-5 cards" forced distribution. If one comes up, we include it without worrying about whether there are "enough" cards with Potion costs.

The result? We've found the Alchemy cards work great. Sometimes one comes up that nobody wants and it doesn't get bought. But that happens with cards from every set, depending on the kingdom layout. Other times there are cards that are very effective. Getting Herbalist and Alchemist in the same game is a great, easy combo. I recently won using a University to accumulate Laboratories. It was worth buying a potion! And so forth.

I like Alchemy cards and enjoy mixing them into our random rotation.
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Phil Sauer
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Medusas wrote:

I am simply trying to better people.

How's that working out for you? There's a whole world that has a lot of folks out there trying to better them. It's not working very well. I believe these people aren't interested in your (or my) brand of "better." Also, I have found that my personal life is more than enough for me to focus on without having to "fix" others (yourself included)... but that's just my view.

Medusas wrote:
Most people use slurs out of ignorance; no one ever bothered to tell them such behavior is inappropriate.

Oh, I'm quite certain that's not true. I personally believe they simply don't care what others think (which means they care VERY MUCH what others think -- which is why they act as they do... to provoke response).

Medusas wrote:
Using words such as "stupid", "retarded" or "gay" as slang for unpleasant or undesirable is not acceptable, because the user is disparaging an entire group by doing so.

So? Again, giving the unimportant the pedestal upon which to control one's happiness is absurd. People like this are simply rain to me. I have mental umbrellas that keep my dry around such environmental factors (they're not people at that point, they're simply environmental factors that can have no effect because I refuse to allow it).[/q]

Medusas wrote:
...maybe he can change with serious long-term effort, maybe not at all.

This sounds like religious proselytizing... I believe that's almost as bad. It's possible he's not into your religious views.

Medusas wrote:
Some people can laugh off insults, others react with violence, and others run home and cry. None of these characteristics makes one better or worse than anyone else. We are all different and thus react differently to different provocations.

Mature people simply do not permit ignorant people the license to affect their happiness. When people DO permit it, they are struggling with their own immaturity -- the problem is rarely "out there." It's almost always "in here."

Just my view on the matter... To remain on topic, I'm going to continue to give potions a try in my Dominion games. There... that should help.
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ok, we've hijacked this thread long enough. I just have one thing to clarify, and then I'm moving on.

Quote:
Medusas wrote:
...maybe he can change with serious long-term effort, maybe not at all.

This sounds like religious proselytizing... I believe that's almost as bad. It's possible he's not into your religious views.


You completely misinterpreted what I wrote there. How someone reacts to provocation is determined by their life experiences. A person cannot will themselves a thicker skin easily.

I have no idea why you brought up religion. I am a lifelong atheist. The he was the hypothetical thinned skinned person.
 
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Jeremy Volk
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Whoah, easy guys. The word "retarded" doesn't inherently apply to people. To retard simply means to slow down or hinder. That's what I think Potions do to the game, and that's why I chose that particular word. I did not mean to offend anyone, or to make any kind of statement about retarded people, but if you really mind it I will try to avoid using it again. Sincerest apologies.
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Jonas Milke
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BACK TO TOPIC:


I would like to see a duration promo card.
 
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David Moffett
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Haha, yes back on topic. I have little experience with duration cards as I have not been able to table Seaside very much, however, I found them to be delightful in the possibilities for enormous and powerful buys, among other things. I would also like to see a duration promo card (if anyone is listening).
 
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Mike Young
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I know that many of you think that fan made cards don't count and perhaps they don't but I currently working on my second fan made print and play expansion and its focus is duration cards.

The next fan made expansion after that will likely have more potion cards because I don't think there are enough of them in Alchemy.
 
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Len
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I'm pretty sure Donald wrote he used half (or part) of his original Alchemy set to make the smaller Alchemy expansion we have today.

I imagine the original Alchemy set had some other potion-cost cards in them, so we may see those one day?

 
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Paul W
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LSMB wrote:

I'm pretty sure Donald wrote he used half (or part) of his original Alchemy set to make the smaller Alchemy expansion we have today.

I imagine the original Alchemy set had some other potion-cost cards in them, so we may see those one day?



From the Secret History of the Alchemy Cards:

donaldx wrote:
After we finished working on Seaside, we moved on to the 3rd set. We finished that up, or so we thought, and were soon to begin work on the 4th set.

Meanwhile, people were clamoring for smaller sets. And when I say people I don't mean players, although maybe they were too; I mean, some of the publishers of the game wanted smaller sets. They talked to Jay and Jay talked to me; maybe we should do some small sets here too. Not that we wouldn't keep doing the large ones. But you know. Give the people something that's not the full price of the main game. And the ideal timing would be, next. It would squeeze ahead of the now-misnumbered 3rd expansion.

Since we had just finished the set that was due, shortly before it was due, there wasn't much time. In order to have something that was as polished as possible, as soon as possible, it had to be a subset of one of the existing large sets. Only the 6th set leant itself to this. It had a theme that was just the right size and could stand by itself, and a sub-theme that could be expanded for another small set. And the set was missing some cards, due to stealing them for earlier sets, so it didn't feel like I was breaking up something finished.

So I broke up the 6th set. The Potions part went into this set, Alchemy.


So yes, Alchemy came from a larger set, but all of the potions cards went into Alchemy. Given that so far Alchemy has been the least well received of the Dominion sets, I think that returning to the potion theme is not likely to be a high priority.
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Len
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Cool, I was looking for that entry from Donald and could not find it. So it seems he used all of the potion cards.

I think there are many players who really like Alchemy, but I agree it is not likely a high priority. While I would love to see more Alchemy/potion cards, I do think that expansion stands on its own well enough.
 
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sgt stiffler
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I also believe the Alchemy set is underrated. We play with the randomizer, and it seems that the potion cards are almost always the first to be snatched up when in play. Personally, my favorite card in all of Dominion is 'Possession'. Followed closely by Alchemist. And when Vineyard is in play, it changes the whole dynamic of the game. I believe Alchemy was a great way to spice things up a bit. And it revitalized my gaming group to playing more Dominion. Having not played Prosperity yet, Alchemy is my favorite expansion so far.
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Alchemy is underrated. The cards would be too powerful without the potion cost, and would be underpowered if their cost in coins was 8 or greater. So to introduce those cards the potion is a fairly necessary mechanic.

I guess I just never saw Dominion as a quick, light filler to begin with. If a turn takes a long time, it takes a long time. I prefer meatier, heavier play out of my Dominion and Alchemy delivers that. Maybe Alchemy just is to Dominion what Brink of War is to RFTG: The expansion that is "too much" for all but the most devoted fans. I'm sure someone out there feels that Prestige was "shoehorned".
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