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Subject: ASL "Classic" vs "Modern" - What's Worth Updating? rss

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Doug Cooley
United States
Portland
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I'm thinking about getting into ASL after having the "last gasp" original AH modules sitting on my shelf for the past twelve years. All my modules are the original "core" modules with the exception of Doomed Battalions (the first MMP version) and the Armies of Oblivion edition with the cardboard maps. I also have several annuals, journals, action packs, and scenario packs, as well as VotG (the only historical part I own). And, of course, the starter kits which will be my entry point. I do have the 2nd edition rules, also the maps from SL and it's offspring.

My question is this: There's been a lot of water under the stone bridge in hex B23 on map 4 (made you look!) and I'm not sure if it's worth it for me to buy the newer editions, especially Beyond Valor.

Here are a few parameters to consider:

1) Mounted maps, schmounted maps. I really have no dog in this particular hunt, although I will say that I don't mind the "thin" maps as they line up better and work in a poster frame nicely. If this was the sole reason to upgrade, I'd strongly consider getting the full set from MMP if and when they publish. While I'd have to look, I think I've got every map MMP has published, at least the geomorphic ones.

2) I like my errata all in one place, but again if I can get the changed pages direct from MMP (they did this for a while, maybe not any more) I'd consider doing that if it was the sole reason to upgrade.

3) I'm aware that FKaC has a bunch of different scenarios, and I will probably buy it when they reprint in the near future for that reason alone.

4) I'm aware that BV has a bunch of new scenarios, and I think I have some of them. However, I already have a *lot* of scenarios, probably more than 200, so perhaps not the primary reason to upgrade.

Now, these are all issues that, on their own, are not compelling enough, but could be if enough other players felt it was worth it. And, of course, you get to clip all of those counters, which I'm always up for. Hey, it's therapeutic and I can do it while watching The Daily Show.

So, ASL people, any thoughts on whether buying BV 3rd ed (the only one I can get my hands on easily right now) is worth doing if I already have 1st ed?

Thanks.
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Richard Weiley
Australia
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Doug, given the description of your current set I don't see any "must buy" items that you are missing unless you have an interest in particular nartionality/battle/campaign etc.

The questions that I'd ask are:

Is your first edition BV unpunched? If you've got a module with pristine unpunched counters it seems unnecessary to purchase the third edition.

And secondly, do you mind mixing old style maps with the new starter kit style.

I prefer not to where possible so I've been buying the updated MMP modules as they become available (I've come to the view that the map set is virtually redundant as most of the maps will be available via modules by the time it becomes available).

Again this may not be an issue for you in which case you can stick with your first edition.
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Ernst Knauth
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I've had a similar situation:
The complete AH set was unplayed in my shelves from 1992-2006.
Early 2006 I've started with the ASL Starter Kits and switched to Full ASL late 2006.
Until now I've played about 180 ASLSK scenarios and about 180 Full ASL scenarios.

Beyond Valor 1ed has 12 Countersheets and scenarios ##1-10.
Beyond Valor 3ed has 14 Countersheets and scenarios ##1-10 plus 123-136.

For me that was reason enough to go for the 3ed.
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Jay Richardson
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Lindsborg
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I'm still using the first edition BV that I bought in 1986, and I have no plans to ever replace it. That means there are some scenarios from BV3 that I don't own, but I still own more scenarios than I'll ever get a chance to play, so that's not an issue for me.

If money is not a concern, then yes, BV3 is a bigger and better product than your BV1... but you don't *need* BV3 as long as you also have the AH edition of Yanks (which has the Chapter E counters that were added to BV3).
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Paul Franklin-Bihary
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You don't need anything. You can play the game well, for a long, long time, with what you already have. Just get new stuff. Yes, some of the newer editions have a lot more scenarios, but many of them are reprints of ASL Annual scenarios and the like. The mixing of new and old boards is not ideal, but manageable. And the errata...well, I doubt you will be playing at the level of having most of that minutia matter for a long, long time if you haven't even entered the starter kits yet! I'm still a relative noob, and I haven't noticed any glaring errata yet other than on the OBA flowchart (although I'm sure there is some that I haven't noticed).

Don't waste your money. Use what you have. And love it like the rest of as ASL-heads do!
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Doug Cooley
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Excellent! Thanks for the advice. I may buy BV but leave it in shrink (I'm doing that with VotG as well *just* in case...) and I figure it will be worth something someday.

My 1st ed BV is punched, clipped, and trimmed, but I'm fairly certain it's all there as I've been the only owner and I'm fairly OCD about these things. I wish I could say the same for the Brits from WoA, as a couple of squads took a suicide mission through the GI track of my terrier. When you have to pick up your dog's excrement, you tend to see what's in it. I'm fairly sure I still have the counters somewhere in their own baggie!

Whoops, TMI...whistle

I'm also very glad to hear about the errata. I can see why MMP doesn't put out a PDF file with the rules in it (or a set of PDF files), but it would sure make incorporating errata easier. I *love* using my iPad to read wargame rules, the ability to make annotations to PDF files (and highlight the ruleset) is awesome.

Thanks again. I'll probably take the plunge right after Christmas, and there's a group that plays regularly in Portland, OR, my general area (the Bezerk Commissars, I think).

Doug
 
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Dan Owsen
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The Berserk Commissars are good guys, you should definitely hook up with them if you can.
 
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Whip Cracker
United Kingdom
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dcooley wrote:
I'm thinking about getting into ASL after having the "last gasp" original AH modules sitting on my shelf for the past twelve years. All my modules are the original "core" modules with the exception of Doomed Battalions (the first MMP version) and the Armies of Oblivion edition with the cardboard maps. I also have several annuals, journals, action packs, and scenario packs, as well as VotG (the only historical part I own). And, of course, the starter kits which will be my entry point. I do have the 2nd edition rules, also the maps from SL and it's offspring.

My question is this: There's been a lot of water under the stone bridge in hex B23 on map 4 (made you look!) and I'm not sure if it's worth it for me to buy the newer editions, especially Beyond Valor.

Here are a few parameters to consider:

1) Mounted maps, schmounted maps. I really have no dog in this particular hunt, although I will say that I don't mind the "thin" maps as they line up better and work in a poster frame nicely. If this was the sole reason to upgrade, I'd strongly consider getting the full set from MMP if and when they publish. While I'd have to look, I think I've got every map MMP has published, at least the geomorphic ones.

2) I like my errata all in one place, but again if I can get the changed pages direct from MMP (they did this for a while, maybe not any more) I'd consider doing that if it was the sole reason to upgrade.

3) I'm aware that FKaC has a bunch of different scenarios, and I will probably buy it when they reprint in the near future for that reason alone.

4) I'm aware that BV has a bunch of new scenarios, and I think I have some of them. However, I already have a *lot* of scenarios, probably more than 200, so perhaps not the primary reason to upgrade.

Now, these are all issues that, on their own, are not compelling enough, but could be if enough other players felt it was worth it. And, of course, you get to clip all of those counters, which I'm always up for. Hey, it's therapeutic and I can do it while watching The Daily Show.

So, ASL people, any thoughts on whether buying BV 3rd ed (the only one I can get my hands on easily right now) is worth doing if I already have 1st ed?

Thanks.


as a newbie one of the things that really strikes me is the contrast in counter quality. The 5% increase in size and the clean cut new look really makes a world of difference. The mounted boards are old school but I still love them - look after them and they will still look new after 25 years. The starter style - we will see but I still think they are great as well. The larger font for rule pages is a great change as are the amended scenarios. I would buy one copy of any MMP 'new age' module to see what you think.
 
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