Josiah Leis
United States Merino Colorado
I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
-
Session one of this campaign can be found here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/523665/down-with-sean-th...
Session two is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/563389/down-with-sean-th...
Session three is here, along with a kind of "mid-campaign recap" post at the bottom of the thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/564207/down-with-sean-th...
Session four is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5692065#5692065
Session five is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/576597/down-with-sean-th...
Session six is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/579547/down-with-sean-th...
And so we begin session number 7. This was a very short session, but a very important one. It lasted probably only an hour to an hour and a half, and was mainly taken up with a very important LT battle.
To continue from our last session, our overlord Sean, had just moved all 3 of his LTs into the city of Dawnsmoor in order to besiege it. Since he had siege engines, this meant he could be rolling for it the very next week. As he already had 2 cities razed for his Ascension plot, we figured we needed to stop them. The campaign had only recently switched into gold.
At the end of the last session the heroes had charged into Dawnsmoor and attacked Lady Eliza Farrow. After killing her, we then choose to attack Krieg the Relentless, which is where we pick up in this session. This was a bit of a risk, since all of the heroes except Ispher were pretty wounded, and we were almost out of potions.
Week 37 (continued)
Krieg the Relentless @ Frozen Pass
This was quite a good map for the overlord to draw. It is very long with little cover, and many manuveriblity issues. Perfect for Krieg's large number of Gold Skeletons to snipe down while blocking the narrow hallways. Sean also selected 2 Beastmen, using Krieg's Hordes of the Things.
Sean had 3 Trap Treachery and 1 Event. With those he built a hand consisting of 2x Dark Charm, 2x Crushing Block, Spiked Pit, and Enraged. The heroes then removed one of the Crushing Blocks. Our theory was that even if we took away 1 of the Dark Charms, we'd still have to be equipping and unequipping weapons all the time for the other one, so there wasn't much point.
Sean placed Krieg on the exit space, far away from the heroes. His monsters were then scattered out throughout the map, some in trees, though all of them were far away from the heroes.
The heroes moved cautiously to begin with, all of their weapons unequipped, they simply stepped forward, all of them but Laughin getting into trees. Sean managed to move 1 of his skeletons close enough to Laughin to make an attack, and inflicted minor wounds, while reposistioning several others into closer trees.
The heroes then ran forward, ending their turns on the ice (purposefully), while Laughin killed the lone skeleton close to them. Ispher and Laughin were the only ones very exposed, with the first having a Stealth potion on him, the latter a Dodge order.
Sean then attacked both Laughin and Ispher, again inflicting a few wounds. Ispher's Stealth did cause one of the attacks to miss.
On the heroes turn Landrec Spiritwalked through Laughin to battle and kill both of two of the nearby skeletons who had attacked the heroes on the previous turn. Runewitch and Ispher then ran forward into some tress, but not before a Crushing Block and a Spiked Pit were played on Ispher. Laughin moved up, and placed a Dodge on Runewitch who was at the front and unlike Ispher lacked a health potion.
Sean managed to get in a good many attacks on this turn, wounding Ispher further, but again his Stealth potion came through, cancelling at least one of the attacks. His cloak of mists also proved useful, negating several wounds.
At this point Ispher and Runewitch ran up and using there many attacks, managed to finish off most of the nearby foes. Sean was faced with an interesting decision at this time. If he discarded his entire hand, and used all of his available threat, he would just barely be able to play Dark Charm on Ispher, whom I had foolishly not left with enough movement to unequip his Silver weapon.
Ispher still had 10 or 12 wounds left, and was standing right next to Runewitch who had only 7 wounds remaining. However Runewitch was Dodging, and Ispher had a stealth potion. Plus it would clean Sean completely out of threat and all his cards. In the end he choose not to play the Dark Charm, and saved his threat and cards.
Ispher and Runewitch on the following turn managed to peak around the final corner and kill a few of Krieg's remaining minions, before stepping back around. Ispher however, was left in a pretty far forward posistion.
Sean then attacked with all of his remaining minions on Ispher. He brought him down to just 5 wounds remaining. Ispher who had been in full health at the start of this encounter, had been saved due to his Cloak of Mists, and the Stealth die causing a few misses on Sean's part.
However Sean did still have some cards and threat, dicarding a few and spending more threat he played Enraged on the boss who then declared a run action. This allowed Krieg to make two attacks and gave him a whopping 20 movement points! He was not interested in finishing Ispher though, instead he was after the one hero who could kill him permanently, Landrec.
Landrec was still wounded from the previous fight, having only 13 of his 20 wounds. Plus due to all the equpping and unequipping of his cursed weapon to avoid Dark Charm, he'd stacked up 4 curse tokens, making him worth 6 conquest!
Krieg zoomed across the map, past Ispher and Runewitch and attacked Landrec twice. The first attack hit and dealt 7 wounds to Landrec, all of which were posion and lost him all of his fatigue. The second attack then landed, dealing another 5 wounds, bringing Landrec down to having only 1 wound remaining!
Sean was again faced with a difficult decision, he could either use his threat to move Krieg farther away when he used his remaining movement, or drop 3 more dice to try and kill Landrec. Sean choose to spend the threat to kill the one hero who could permanently kill him......and proceeded to roll 3 surges in a row!
Failing to kill Landrec or Ispher, Sean then tried to move Krieg back away, but was limited because he had no threat. The heroes then surrounded and killed Krieg on the following turn, with the 1 wound 4 curse and 12 posion Landrec dealing the permanent killing blow through Spiritwalker!
This was a very tight LT encounter. Had Sean managed to inflict one more wound on Landrec, or hit Ispher instead, or finished off Runewitch whom he got down to just 4 wounds, things probably would have gone very differently. It took all of the heroes combined might to finish Krieg in 1 turn, the absence of even one of them would have meant that Krieg might have lived. Or even if Landrec was gone and the heroes still finished Krieg in one turn he would not have been permanently killed!
Instead however the heroes scored a huge victory. They decided not to press on with the attack against Sir Alric (Sean's only remaining LT), and just visited in Dawnsmoor. The city had no Alchemist and a terrible temple unfortuneately, but while shopping in the Market Laughin Buldar picked up Shield of the Warrior and Frost Axe, selling his Silver weapon and shield in the process.
Landrec also purchased two curse dolls in order to remove the now 5 curses he had on him and 1 poison token.
Week 38
Sean placed a siege token on Dawnsmoor and bought a point of Trap Treachery. The heroes returned to Tamalir, buying two Vitality potions and the Hammer of Doom upon their arrival, Runewitch also healed in the temple.
Week 39
Sean put his 2nd siege token on Dawnsmoor, while all 4 of the heroes trained in Tamalir, each purchasing two dice upgrades.
Week 40
Sean puts his 3rd and final siege token on Dawnsmoor and purchases his 2nd point of Event treachery. The heroes travel to Dawnsmoor, but have a yellow encounter on the way, which is where we choose to quit.
Summary
The heroes are heading for the showdown with the overlord's final LT. They've beaten the first two, but Alric seems significantly tougher than either Krieg or Eliza, plus Sean now has two more points of treachery at his disposal.
This LT battle was a tight, tense experience, and it felt in some ways as if the whole campaign hinged on it's outcome. To have it come down to the wire that way was very exciting. Both Landrec & Ispher\Runewitch could very easily have been killed had things gone even a little bit differently. Without even 1 of them I think the heroes might have been headed toward a TPK.
Still despite all of this fun tension, it now feels in some ways a bit of a letdown, like the campaign is over before it really is. I suppose the heroes' shouldn't count their chicks before they've hatched, since Alric is still alive and causing trouble, but it did kind of seem with Sean's failure 3 times in a row to get an extra point of damage on Landrec that all hope of him winning this campaign slipped away.
Very short, very intense, but very fun session this time. I hope to write more soon as the campaign comes to it's hopefully dramatic finish.
-
Slyvanian Frog
United States Lakeville Minnesota
-
Another great write-up.
-
Sebastian D.
Germany Berlin
-
Ahh, nice evening you had there
. From what I've heard (not nearly enough own experience yet ), LT battles are where the game is won or lost. Losing almost all LTs like your OL did sounds like the road to a hero win to me. Let's just hope you willa ll still have fun, OL included, with the rest of the campaign.
One thing: kartigan wrote: However Sean did still have some cards and threat, dicarding a few and spending more threat he played Enraged on the boss who then declared a run action. This allowed Krieg to make two attacks and gave him a whopping 20 movement points! I don't think that'S how Enraged works on a LT. Might be in the GLoaQ or somewhere (can't look right now) but it was something like: Enraged doesn't double movement or attacks, it just gives you two attacks and twice your speed. Meaning that regular Rage or Charge cards are of better value for LTs, as the declare a Run and play Rage to have two attacks and twice their speed just as with Enraged.
-
Josiah Leis
United States Merino Colorado
I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
-
Thanks for the replies. The enraged card reads that it doubles the monsters speed for the activation, and grants him 2 attacks. Since a run lets you move up double what your speed is, we simply said the card took place first. Meaning that his speed of 5 gets doubled by the card to 10, and then he's granted 20 MP (double his new speed) by his run action.
The card then gives him 2 attacks no matter what kind of action he's taking. I know that's how Rage works on an LT, it give him 2 attacks no matter what so its most efficient to use it when the LT declares a run action.
I think we played that card correctly, but if there are others who have more opinions on the subject I'd be interested to hear them.
-
Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
-
Kartigan wrote: Thanks for the replies. The enraged card reads that it doubles the monsters speed for the activation, and grants him 2 attacks. Since a run lets you move up double what your speed is, we simply said the card took place first. Meaning that his speed of 5 gets doubled by the card to 10, and then he's granted 20 MP (double his new speed) by his run action.
The card then gives him 2 attacks no matter what kind of action he's taking. I know that's how Rage works on an LT, it give him 2 attacks no matter what so its most efficient to use it when the LT declares a run action.
I think we played that card correctly, but if there are others who have more opinions on the subject I'd be interested to hear them.
It is probably not as intended, but it does literally say double the monsters speed and give him 2 attacks, so I agree, you played it correctly.
Enraged Play when you activate a monster. Double the monster's speed for this activation. In addition, the monster may attack twice during this activation (4 times if it has Quick Shot).
BastiRand wrote: I don't think that'S how Enraged works on a LT. Might be in the GLoaQ or somewhere (can't look right now) but it was something like: Enraged doesn't double movement or attacks, it just gives you two attacks and twice your speed. Meaning that regular Rage or Charge cards are of better value for LTs, as the declare a Run and play Rage to have two attacks and twice their speed just as with Enraged. There is noting mentioning Enraged in the GLOAQ thread or current FAQ. I think you are misremembering the Charge/Rage entries.
-
Sebastian D.
Germany Berlin
-
Sorry about the confusion, you both are right of course.
This was where I remembered wrong:
Quote: If the Overlord plays RAGE on a Lieutenant during a battle action, how many attacks does he receive - 3 or 4?
Two, actually. "Rage" reads: "Play when you activate a monster. That monster may attack twice during this activation (four times if it has Quick Shot)." A lieutenant who has declared a Battle action may attack twice during his activation. "Rage" has no further effect - it is essentially granting the lieutenant an ability it already has. A much stronger play is to declare a Run action and then play "Rage," which would allow the lieutenant to move twice his speed and attack twice.
So, yeah, quadruple movement looks correct .
-
Adam Mitchell
United States Unspecified Unspecified
-
Kartigan wrote: Still despite all of this fun tension, it now feels in some ways a bit of a letdown, like the campaign is over before it really is. I suppose the heroes' shouldn't count their chicks before they've hatched, since Alric is still alive and causing trouble, but it did kind of seem with Sean's failure 3 times in a row to get an extra point of damage on Landrec that all hope of him winning this campaign slipped away.
I fear you're right. Though I personally haven't played this game, I have read a LOT about it. Ascension is considered the hardest plot for the S-K to win, he's lost two Lieutenants already, and with the success of Twins, you've stripped him of the two cards essential for his triumph in the final battle. I hate to say it, since I've really enjoyed your session reports, but I think you have this one in the bag now.
-
Sebastian D.
Germany Berlin
-
According to your reports you drew the Twins rumor in week 22 (part 4), and placed it two trails away from Tamalir. You went to complete it in week 36 (part 6). Now that’s a lot of time, isn’t it? I certainly didn’t check for everything that was going on (it was almost all of the silver age). Why wasn’t your OL buying at least on of his “crucial” upgrades during that time? I mean, you managed to remove both Soul Ward and Phylactery, both only costing 5 XP. I remember you wrote he’s not very experienced (neither am I) but didn’t you tell him that especially for the sorcerer king there are two very powerful upgrades for the final fight?
Also, I asked earlier how his multiple monster category upgrades come into effect. I don’t remember reading anything about bigger troubles due to more upgraded monsters. Do you think a more common approach of one category plus treachery would have been better for him? On the other hand he certainly seems to have been improving rather quickly, but learning while playing seems to me not to be a great way to play an advanced campaign. Just an opinion, though, you sound like you’re all enjoying it anyway. 
-
Josiah Leis
United States Merino Colorado
I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
-
Hehe, learning while playing is definitely NOT a good way to play the advanced campaign. The heroes learned that in our other campaign game where they got smashed by me, mainly because they'd never done the advanced campaign before.
Sean after that campaign was very eager to try the overlord. I'd never been a hero in the advanced campaign and was looking forward to trying the other side as well. I did try to give him some advice and strategy tips, but I doubt it was enough. His play has improved as he has been learning, but it is probably too little to late in the scope of the campaign.
I don't know why he didn't purchase those upgrades before we reached the Twins. To be honest I was a bit suprised myself. I definitely warned Sean of what the rumor would do, and even said "You may want to buy any upgrades you for sure want now before we reach there." But I didn't specifically tell him to purchase those two, even though it's what I would have done. Perhaps that was a mistake.
There's definitely a balance in Descent when trying to teach new players between playing the game for them, and guiding them into good strategy. I usually try to take a more hands off approach when playing, kind of let people make their own mistakes and such. But I have been much more free with advice and tips to Sean while he's been trying the Overlord.
-
Josiah Leis
United States Merino Colorado
I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
-
Also I'd like to point out that just like Sebastian observed, we are all having a lot of fun playing the campaign, even Sean who's learning as he goes.
And as far as the upgrading multiple monster categories goes, I don't know what to think. I've only played 4 Advanced campaigns before this one, 3 of them I was the overlord. The one time I was the hero we never finished (only played one session), the rest the overlord won pretty early. Too early in fact for the issues of wheter to upgrade 1 category or multiples came into question.
I think I would have thought to upgrade 1 category to Diamond, and the other 2 to Silver, which is the approach Sean has been taking. However after seeing the incredible value of Treachery in LT fights, maybe the other categories should just be left at copper.
It has helped him in the dungeons though, there aren't really any "dud" monsters or bosses like their would be with Copper level creatures.
Bottom line, Sean is still learning, and that combined with his truly terrible luck has lead the campaign to this point. I thought we as heroes would still be learning to, but I think we have had quite a leg up on him. Still been a blast for all involved though.
-
Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
-
Kartigan wrote: I think I would have thought to upgrade 1 category to Diamond, and the other 2 to Silver, which is the approach Sean has been taking. However after seeing the incredible value of Treachery in LT fights, maybe the other categories should just be left at copper.
It has helped him in the dungeons though, there aren't really any "dud" monsters or bosses like their would be with Copper level creatures.
The OL wins games with his Lts, not in the dungeons. Treachery is far more important...
OTOH with the SoB OL's often having two cheap monster categories (and more expensive but less useful Treachery (no treachery in Lt fights)) We've found 'leapfrogging' monster types is quite useful - silver Eldritch in copper level, to take advantage of the big boost Eldritch get in killing power, then a double boost to gold Humanoids in silver, to take advantage of the big boost humanoids get silver->gold (humanoids are much better in SoB due to dungeon design breaking up LOS a lot more). Or Beasts, depending on OL Avatar, but Beasts seem to be a smoother power upgrade path.
Quote: Bottom line, Sean is still learning, and that combined with his truly terrible luck has lead the campaign to this point. I thought we as heroes would still be learning to, but I think we have had quite a leg up on him. Still been a blast for all involved though.
Right. The learning curve of the heroes is big and steep initially. But once they get to a certain point they plateau fairly quickly - then the OL needs to have kept his game at a competant level or he is in trouble. No disrespect intended, but your OL really seems to have made a lot of very basic mistakes. Some excusable (learning), but some... not so much. Still, as long as you are all having fun, that's much better than a hard-out group getting disillusioned!
-
Slyvanian Frog
United States Lakeville Minnesota
-
corbon wrote: No disrespect intended, but your OL really seems to have made a lot of very basic mistakes. Some excusable (learning), but some... not so much.
For those of us about to OL a new game (just in theory ), would you care to put a bit more detail around what those basic mistakes are?
-
Corbon Loughnan
Singapore
-
SlyFrog wrote: corbon wrote: No disrespect intended, but your OL really seems to have made a lot of very basic mistakes. Some excusable (learning), but some... not so much. For those of us about to OL a new game (just in theory :D), would you care to put a bit more detail around what those basic mistakes are?
First, let me just say that we all, no matter how experienced, make mistakes. At least once every session I play I'm 'duh' with some stupid move or some way I could have moved that figure better, etc. But this is an Advanced Campaign, and while beginners are expected to make some strategic errors, they shouldn't be making too many fundamental tactical errors and they should have some coherence to their strategy.
ok...
Kartigan wrote: The Sorcerer King (played by Sean): Siege Engines, Ascension Plot This is a mixed start. Seige Engines and Ascension is the correct combo for an OL trying to win. The two complement each other perfectly for a Map-win attempt. However the Sorceror King is the weakest Avatar on the Map, with poor location and Kreig is interesting, but vulnerable - skeletons are easily one-shotted, even silver skeletons with copper heroes. Eldritch are the. strongest (well, most common) monsters underground, but on the Map Beasts are the strongest and most useful overall. So its a map strategy upgrade choice and a dungeon strategy Avatar choice. Not a big mistake, but a typical learner mistake.
Kartigan wrote: Sean played a Beastman War Party spawn and attacked. He managed to kill Ispher [+3], but failed to kill Laughlin by 1 single wound! It was of course only after his turn was over I pointed out to him that if he'd kept the two master beastmen close to the boss their command would've allowed him to finish off Laughlin, :devil: painful lessons to learn as the Overlord!
This is a bad beginner OL mistake for a vanilla OL. An Advanced Campaign OL might consider strategic mistakes to be 'beginner' mistakes, but not something as basic to the tactical engine as this. Master Beatsmen's primary use to to boost other hard hitting monsters. Everything else comes second. To be fair though, by all reports the OL was having a terrible time luck wise in this dungeon - and that happens too.
Kartigan wrote: Time passed [+1], and Sean moved Alric toward Dawnsmoor (to the Misty Plains), while he purchased Lawlessness [-5]. I've always thought that it was a pretty crappy upgrade, but since he'd heard me tell the heroes that we wanted to avoid encounters at this stage, and so we should stick to trails with low chances of having encounters I think he was trying to counter that.
That is a beginner mistake. The OL is reacting to the heroes rather than keeping to his plan (and not reacting well, but that is another matter). This is not a beginner RtL player mistake, this is a beginner gamer mistake. The OL's first upgrade should 99% of the time be monsters (especially if he gets cheap Eldritch). Nothing has anywhere near the bonus punch, or bonus staying power of upgrading monsters. Extra Lts are still relatively vulnerable to even starting heroes - until you upgrade some of their monsters, then they become a proper threat to the heroes.
Sean has played as a hero so he has seen the difference it makes when the OL gets his first monster upgrade. If he'd never played the game before it would still be a bad mistake. All you have to do is look turn the monster cards over and see how much better they are, and play one dungeon to know what the value to the wounds, armour and dice/special ability upgrades are.
So not only is he reacting to the heroes rather than pressuring them with his plan, AND picking a bad upgrade to do it with, he's ALSO delaying his primary and most powerful upgrade.
Kartigan wrote: Sean also got Doom into play at some point in this level, rather early on IIRC.
This is a might be a beginner RtL OL mistake. Generally speaking Doom is a total waste of space in AC dungeons (except on first level of legendary dungeons). There simply isn't enough attacks that the OL isn't going to get in (much less spawning and the heroes can mostly limit 'starting' monster attacks a great deal), to make this card worth the cost most of the time. OTOH, the SK is the one Avatar who usually has enough threat, and you can only play the cards you are dealt, so it might not have been a mistake at all, depending on the exact circumstances.
Kartigan wrote: Sean collects another conquest [+1] and purchases Lord Merrick Farrow [-5]
Again, delaying the critical monster upgrade. The heroes are killing him in the dungeons and he is letting them get a flying start. This is slowing his critical point from coming, so he slows it even further by spending on other things. Note that Merrick will basically have to flee if he encounters the heroes, but if he had silver Eldritch then he can really put some hurt on them.
Kartigan wrote: ...and put Doom into play.
... Sean did finally manage to kill Laughlin, but still made a couple of mistakes (like forgetting about the Master Beastman's command once or twice).[/COLOR]
I've covered Doom already. There are some thing you forget, and some things you don't. Command from Master Beastmen is just one of the things you don't! It is basically the focus of your turn - almost everything revolves around making sure all your attacks possible are Commanded...
Kartigan wrote: I was a bit surprised to see Sean send Merrick to Vylenvale instead of Riverwatch, since with Siege engines Riverwatch would have a pathetic 2 defense, it was closer, and it would give one conquest per week which Vylenvale would not. But he'd heard us discussing how we needed to stop Alric and could do so with just 1 week's travel from Tamalir, and I think he wanted to get someplace farther away from us to besiege it. He'd also heard us talking about how badly we wanted the Leadership skill and how it was available in Vylenvale. Plus his plot gives him 5 conquest for any raised city so I think that's why he headed that direction.
It is a decision, not necessarily a mistake. But I get the impression he is again reacting to the heroes, rather than focusing on his game plan. He could be rolling to raze in three weeks from here, and forcing the heroes to choose which city to try to save. Plus, the Market at Riverwatch is very important in early Silver/Gold.
Kartigan wrote: Note that Sean could have spawned the Dark Priests back at the Glyph near Landrec due to an error on our part concerning LoS, but chose not to since he didn't want them getting killed. I think this was a mistake, since he probably could've done serious harm to Landrec and created more problems with them behind us rather than slowly advancing them behind a wall of Kobolds. Still, they did get in some attacks and put a curse on Laughlin when he later killed the master because they were too far from the pits to be thrown in.
I agree. It was a mistake, an inexperienced one. Monsters are expendable, you take what you can get when you can get it. And Dark Priest masters want to die, in a way, to put that Curse token on (effectively another CT, later, most of the time).
Kartigan wrote: After this the heroes assaulted Sir Alric. The battle ended with a victory for the heroes, with Sean slowing the heroes down with his minions and getting some shots in. When he ran out of minions though, Alric abandoned the siege and fled.
Sean did the right thing here, but this just shows the point about getting upgraded monsters. When Alric can reinforce a hard hitting Silver Sorceror every turn, it puts a different complexion on things...
Kartigan wrote: After completing the encounter and arriving in Vylenvale the heroes attacked Lord Merrick Farrow. Sean underestimated the speed with which the heroes could move, and left Lord Merrick too close. It started with Ishper and Runewitch managing to clear a path by killing several skeletons between the heroes and Merrick. That was followed up with an advance action with fatigue + a Vitality potion by Laughin, combined with a Hurry feat card meant that Merrick soon traveled 6 spaces backward, thanks the Hammer from the shop. Landrec then battled and finished off Merrick before Sean even had a turn. The loss of a Lieutenant was a huge victory for the heroes and a staggering loss for the overlord.
This is a beginner mistake. Lts should be on the furtherest away tree or furtherest away space on the map. And silver minions would have been harder to break through. Even Ispher can one-shot copper skeletons reliably! This is also about 4-5 weeks or more since Merrick didn't start seiging Riverwatch. So there is a reasonable chance we would have completed that seige by then already!
Kartigan wrote: Week 12
Sean gained a conquest [+1] and spent 25 of his experience to purchase Silver Eldritches gulp
Far, far too late. The score is something like 50-90, so copper is mostly gone already...
His next upgrade though was an Event Treachery, which was a very good move. Get that Crushing Blow in action as soon as possible.
Worth noting though, that he now has just 1 Lt, no cities seiged and Eliza Farrow costs more than she should due to Merrick dying. So teh Seige Engines/Acension is just wasting, doing nothing for him...
Kartigan wrote: Week 22
The overlord gained one conquest [+1] and the campaign entered the silver level. Sean immediately upgraded Eldritches to Gold, and had both of his LTs lay two siege tokens down on Riverwatch. With his Siege Engines upgrade, this meant he could start rolling for its destruction next turn.
This is not a mistake. This is exactly what the OL should be doing! Upgrading his primary monsters ASAP and making full use of his Lts (now more dangerous with Event and Trap Treachery) and additional upgrades.
He's also caught up in the CT values, showing what a different getting the monster upgrade meant. From 50-9ish down, the heroes are contemplating entering the Silver Legendary dungeon, which they can't do unless Sean is ahead in CT.
Kartigan wrote: Week 26
Sean agains collects his [+2], but fails on his siege roll for Vylenvale. He decides to leave both LTs there to protect the cities siege tokens. The heroes again train at Shika's Tree, with Landrec the Wise acquiring another black magic die and upgrading another to a silver .
Leave both LTs? It is a decision, but not, I think, a good one. He needs to get Alric back at Tamalir, or another city, putting the heat on the heroes, not have all his Lts sitting doing nothing in a corner of the board.
Kartigan wrote: Week 29
Sean gained [+2] and purchased Silver humanoids while moving his LTs to Moonglow Marsh. The heroes spent the week training in Tamalir, upgrading the Market again.
Landrec and Laughin both upgraded 2 dice to Silver, while Runewitch and Ispher went shopping for items and potions.
Week 30
Sean again gains [+2], and purchases Krieg the Relentless for 14 experience. While Krieg moves out to the Bitter Downs, the two Farrows enter into the Smokeblue Hills. The heroes again Train in Tamalir, upgrading the Temple this time. Runewitch gained a black die, while Ispher acquires a black and a silver.
Okay, so he bought a monster upgrade and a Lt. Nothing wrong there. But he must have had a fair idea that the heroes were going to train that week. They have a bunch of money, a bunch of XP, and nothing pressuring them time-wise. So he should buy the Lt first, then the monster upgrade. He can get something (movement) out of the Lt the first week, but nothing out of the monster upgrade. This is not a beginner mistake, nor 'reacting to the opposition' it is simply not thinking. Personally I would be adding more treachery rather than a minor monster upgrade, but that's a choice.
Kartigan wrote: The two Farrows then moved away from the heroes and the city of Dawnsmoor into the Smokeblue Hills. They were now 3 trails away from the heroes, too far to reach in a single turn.
I thought this move was a bit odd, I would have moved toward Dawnsmoor, daring the heroes to attack me. But Sean feared his LTs were too weak to win though, and wanted to protect them. I think even fleeing on the first turn would have been a victory for Sean though, since it could have given more time to Krieg.
Regardless, the heroes were now in the annoying position of having two sets of LTs on opposite sides of the map, just as they were about to start LT hunting! They decided to head for Frostgate straight away in order to prevent Sean from getting a siege roll against it.
Exactly. Because he doesn't trust his Lts to even survive the first turn (which is due to the mistakes he made earlier - he should be able to choke the routes to the Lts with enough monsters to guarantee the Lt survives to flee) he is failing all 3 Lts. Here. Alrica and Eliza are wasting time and will waste even more getting back into position, and Kreig isn't being bought the time he needs to finish his siege.
Having sieges on opposite sides of the map is perfect. But you still have to finesse the heroes properly, not run screaming before they even get in range - that way they effectively cover a much vaster area so you'll never get any sieges done.
Kartigan wrote: I believe his hand started with, Crushing Block, 2 Dark Charms, Scything Blades, and Crushing Blow, with Wind Pact removing Crushing Blow. The heroes then began the slow painful advance toward Eliza.... The heroes were also constantly unequipping their weapons to prevent a Dark Charm from being played.
The second Dark Charm (which costs a full treachery) is wasted. The heroes have used this tactic in the past and will use it again. SO one Dark Charm is useful to keep them spending MP to unequip each turn (and they can't risk a guard), while the other is better spent on more Crushing Blocks or Spiked Pits - more things to mess with the hero's movement and LOS and make them cautious - not to mention the extra wounds that can finish off a badly hurt hero.
Kartigan wrote: Sean was 2 threat short of being able to walk Lady Eliza off of the map using threat, and so he choose to battle, thinking that with two attacks he could kill Ispher, or possibly Astarra and gain the threat he needed. Instead he missed on the first attack, and gained only 1 threat on the 2nd.
No, no, no, I can't look.... no!
Dude, you've been burnt once, don't risk it! Lady Eliza goes down...
Worse, this is the first battle in a series as the heroes try to stop 3 Lts in one place at a seige. The best thing he can possibly do is actually leave badly wounded heroes alive, as they get no chance to heal before the next encounter (if they die, they come back at full strength).
And of course, the error that started the conversation, which was not purchasing the cheap Phylactery and Soul Ward upgrades despite the Twins rumour being in play for multiple weeks.
I hope personally Sean doesn't read this, because it sounds bad for him. But others should be able to learn from this. He did do some good things, and noticeably improved through the campaign, but there are still some errors there that are simply due to thoughtlessness (Kreig/monster upgrade), inattention to what should be the primary basics (Command) and noticeably being reactive rather than proactive - which is a much deeper level of gameplay, as well as the most fundamental mistake of not getting that silver upgrade ASAP - which makes a huge difference and he really should have known, having been on the other side of that difference before. But this is an Advanced Campaign, so the grading level is higher... ;)
-
Slyvanian Frog
United States Lakeville Minnesota
-
Thanks. I don't think anyone will take your comments in the wrong way; you were just responding to my request for more detail, which will be helpful for other Overlord players as well.
Thanks for the detailed feedback!
-
Josiah Leis
United States Merino Colorado
I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
-
Aye, thanks for the point by point feedback Corbon, it was very useful. I think even if Sean did read that I don't think he'd be offended or anything.
I agree that he has made some beginner mistakes, but then again that is exactly what he was when he started this campaign as Overlord, a beginner. So that is my fault for throwing him into the role. To be fair he did ask to do it, but I should have given him more preperation. Playing the Invader in a Doom campaign is very different from playing the Overlord in a Descent campaign, and experience as a hero only takes you so far in the role of Overlord.
I also think his play has improved as the campaign has gone on, he's gotten better both with large scale strategic decisions and tactical ones in the dungeon (let's just say he never forgets about Command now ). He still has a lot to learn, but he has come a long way.
But I also agree it's too little too late. This is the advanced campaign and you need to go into it prepared because even if your play improves, poor decisions at the beginning or middle of the campaign can quickly seal your fate. You don't want to try and "learn as you go" in a 40-50 hour game .
Maybe to make it up to him the next time we do an AC I'll let him be overlord again and we'll play Sea of Blood where the heroes can't win no matter how bad the OL plays .
-
joel cuthbert
United States fort collins Colorado
-
just purchase siren and win for SoB right?
Thanks Kartigan for your AC session reports, and to Sean too. Although he lost, I am sure he learned a ton to smash you guys in the next campaign.
Good luck!
-
|
|