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Subject: Should 2-Player be ABBA instead of ABAB? rss

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Robert Olesen
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I've played some 2-player games on Yucata and found that the starting player has a definite advantage. He gets the cheapest workers in round 1 and round 3, and if both players hoard their money (don't buy buildings at start) there won't be a lot of workers on offer in round 2 while there will ba a good deal in round 3.

Thus I find it difficult to get ahead in cashflow against a player trying to do the same if I go second. And getting ahead in cashflow does seem to be the best way to win this game.

It could be alleviated by going ABBA instead of ABAB. It's also possible that I'm overlooking something.

Comments?
 
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Luis Olcese
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But (at least in the rulebook), the order is random, it could be AABB, ABBA or ABAB.
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Gary Weinfurther
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West Bloomfield
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1603-1714
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lolcese wrote:
But (at least in the rulebook), the order is random, it could be AABB, ABBA or ABAB.

Don't forget BABA or BAAB or BBAA, right? Yes, it is random and it seems to me it can be balanced out with some careful card management. I've not really seen an issue with it in this game, though it might just be me.
 
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Robert Olesen
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I think you misunderstand me.

I want the first player to buy a card or pass (A)
Then the second player gets two chances to buy a card or pass (BB)
Then the first player gets two chances to buy a card or pass (AA)
and so on until both passes.

That way the cost of cards evens out.
 
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Chuck Parrott
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The assignment is random, but the order isn't. You swap your first player markers after each round so it will always follow ABAB for each specific part of the round, workers, buildings, nobles, specials.

In answer to the OP, card row management is a key aspect of the game that comes with experience. 1st round, starting worker player gets the cheaper workers generally, but since you know you will be 1st in workers next round, do what you can to make sure there are an odd number of slots to fill so you can get an extra worker ahead of your opponent. If you are to go second in workers in a round, do what you can the previous round to make sure an even number of slots are open. This same strategy works for any number of players, just a bit more tricky to manage with more players.

Getting behind early in the game on workers can certainly be a costly mistake.
 
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Robert Olesen
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cparrott wrote:
The assignment is random, but the order isn't. You swap your first player markers after each round so it will always follow ABAB for each specific part of the round, workers, buildings, nobles, specials.

In answer to the OP, card row management is a key aspect of the game that comes with experience. 1st round, starting worker player gets the cheaper workers generally, but since you know you will be 1st in workers next round, do what you can to make sure there are an odd number of slots to fill so you can get an extra worker ahead of your opponent. If you are to go second in workers in a round, do what you can the previous round to make sure an even number of slots are open. This same strategy works for any number of players, just a bit more tricky to manage with more players.

Getting behind early in the game on workers can certainly be a costly mistake.

Even when I do get an even number of slots in round 3, I will have to pay more than the player who goes first. That's a definite disadvantage of going second. My suggestion was simply a way to remedy that.
 
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Lewis Wagner
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Robert Olesen wrote:

Even when I do get an even number of slots in round 3, I will have to pay more than the player who goes first. That's a definite disadvantage of going second. My suggestion was simply a way to remedy that.


Workers are the worst segment to go first in, not the best. Don't try to fix problems that aren't there. Revisit any house rules after you've played several games and have a greater feel for strategy.

There is one house rule that experienced players consistently use, which is not to allow the Mistress (orange 18) to come out turn 1. This demonstrates experienced players aren't just averse to house rules.

That your rule isn't even considered by good players with experience should be a hint that it isn't addressing a real problem. Furthermore, that kind of change would radically alter hand management, which is a key aspect of the game.
 
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Chuck Parrott
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Robert Olesen wrote:
Even when I do get an even number of slots in round 3, I will have to pay more than the player who goes first. That's a definite disadvantage of going second. My suggestion was simply a way to remedy that.


Income is more important than cash spent. You could spend $6 more than your opponent in workers but if you have 1 worker more than him, you have made up the difference in 2 rounds. Don't neglect the stacking bonus too, sometimes it's more beneficial to deny your opponent a worker bonus. Upgraded workers are important, an early negative cash delta on workers can be made up there as well.
 
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Terry
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In my experience, turn order matters the least in 2 player games. It's a much bigger deal in 4 player (and the expansion 5 player game).

While first go on greens is nice, first go on blues is also potentially very nice (warehouse, observatory, debtors prison, 3/8 etc). A first round orange judge is a huge money advantage (secretary or warehouse manager are nice too). A first round upgrade-round bank upgrade or $5 donkey is also a nice money advantage.

So, there are money advantages to be gained in each round. I wouldn't worry about turn order at all in 2 player.

In 4 and 5 player it's actually WORST imo to start off as start player in the green round. It means in a 5 player game that in rounds 2-3-4 you'll be going last, second last, third last in the green round. Yuck. I'd much prefer to start as the 3rd player in the first round (going 3-2-1 in the first 3 rounds).

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Nick Case
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That's the name of the game.
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John Anderson
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There are more turns that just turn 1 and turn 3. OK your opponent may have an advantage in the worker phase in turn 3. But you will have an advantages in some phases too. It's all part of the game that you need to navigate.
 
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Randall Bart
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Robert Olesen wrote:
Even when I do get an even number of slots in round 3, I will have to pay more than the player who goes first. That's a definite disadvantage of going second. My suggestion was simply a way to remedy that.

Are you giving each player two of the four gold tokens, and swapping them at the end of the round?
 
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Robert Olesen
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Barticus88 wrote:
Are you giving each player two of the four gold tokens, and swapping them at the end of the round?

I have been playing online at yucata.de

Thanks for all the constructive criticism. I'll play some more and see how it works.
 
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Rufus Frog
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carlsbad wrote:

It means in a 5 player game that in rounds 2-3-4 you'll be going last, second last, third last in the green round. Yuck. I'd much prefer to start as the 3rd player in the first round (going 3-2-1 in the first 3 rounds).

I thought in the five player game the tokens moved 2 places to the left each round, so you will go 1st, 4th, 2nd, 5th, 3rd in order - presumably to avoid exactly this stinkage.
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