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Jayson Smith
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Am I reading the rules correctly in that:
- you can have only 4 units in a formation without leaders (which Papacy never has, absent the Renegade leader)
- up to 4 units can remain in fortifications and stay there without fighting
- you have to have MORE than the units in fortifications to lay siege
..therefore..
- there is no way for the Papacy to take a 4-unit fortified enemy space back (say 4 French units in Florence) without the Renegade leader card.

Is that correct? This seems like a huge disadvantage.
 
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Russ Hewson
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Surbiton
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That's correct, the Pope is a lover, not a fighter.
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There are a few other possible ways, but all of them require cards as well.

You could reduce the four units somehow, either with the various mercenaries or with Unsanitary Camp, although this doesn't prevent the opponent from bulking back up on his own impulse.

That's about the only way you're doing it on your own.

Failing that, you could always ask your buddy the HRE for a bit of help. He's got leaders, and his hobbies involve taking keys.
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Jayson Smith
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OK got it. And in the 2P rules you can't build troops for other powers (presuming the French were occupying an Italian key), so any of those cards will likely open up the key for invasion. In our game the Papacy did try that but the Protestant nullified it with the "cancel an action" response card (forget the name).

Thanks for the help, both.
 
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Jayson Smith
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Not Sure wrote:
Failing that, you could always ask your buddy the HRE for a bit of help. He's got leaders, and his hobbies involve taking keys.


About that -- how best to do this? You're allied after the SL of course, then .. would you have the Haps lay siege with 5+ units, and then on the Papacy's impulse move in your own invading force of 4 and assault? Is that legal?

You'd have to do it on an impulse where you get to play an invasion card since their leaders disappear in winter, so still counting on drawing a card but I guess it's one more way to do it.
 
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I was mostly referring to paying Chuck V to beat up France in Italy, but a combined attack would also be possible.

This thread about allies assaulting keys explains how that would work. You'd need the Hapsburgs to knock down the defense a bit, since it appears that allied stacks don't combine for besieging numbers (although I might be wrong there). Chances are the Hapsburgs are still going to be the ones who end up taking the key, so you'll have to plan for that in your negotiations.

 
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Chris Montgomery
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Joliet
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In most games, you will not be facing down 4 CUs in Italy, anyway. Milan, maybe. But usually, you are looking at 2 or 3 CUs at the most.
 
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