Daniel Stone
United States
Seattle
Washington
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I was a bit initially apprehensive about getting Dungeon lords because of Tom Vassal's less than favorable review of it. I really enjoy worker placement games, though and I loved the theme of Dungeon Lords.
First, I'll say that I love the game after having played it three times now (albeit slightly wrong the first time) and I'm finding myself sitting here wanting to play it again.
So that out of the way I hope you'll consider this to be an unbiased opinion... The components really suck. The little plastic imps and the wooden pieces are superb, but the cardboard tiles are made of a very lightweight stock, moreover the adhesive used to attach the outer layer of paper to the cardboard tiles was very weak and I needed to use a tiny bit of glue to secure some corners that peeled up while removing the tiles from their sprues. Since I'm used to the high quality components in Arkham Horror and Small World it was a bit of a shock.Additionally the cards included are very thin and flimsy and feel like they're in danger of being ruined when you shuffle them.
The rulebook is laid out wonderfully and is very easy to read, the little 'in character" text boxes even make it quite fun to read and I chuckled more than once at the content.
The game it's self is great fun, the mechanics include just about everything you might like to be there with elements of strategy, forethought, reading your opponents, bluffing, memory, problem solving and of course a bit of luck. While other worker placement games can often come down to repeating the same formulaic build for victory, the random elements of Dungeon Lords require a more fun and adaptive play-style that makes every game play out differently. Also, as with any good game it leaves you wanting more! And you can have more, because unlike a lot of games, this one only takes a short time to play through. I found games to last about an hour or so.
The artwork and adherence to theme of this game are superb, and I find myself unable to keep from throwing in an evil laugh here and there as I haul the paladin off to his cell where he'll learn the folly of tangling with such a great and mighty dungeon lord! The game is big on theme and that is probably it's greatest asset.
In short...
The pros:
Simple enough to teach people quickly
Complex enough to keep you interested
Fast-paced
Great art
Amazingly heavy on theme
Something for everyone in the mechanics
The cons:
TERRIBLE component quality.
My verdict:
 
I hate to give the game so low a score, but I also hate to think that in a few years of repeated playing I'll need to buy another copy while my other games that get as much love will still be going strong.
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Damien Seb. -leoskyangel-
Malaysia
Bangsar & PJ
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Thanks for the compact review Daniel. It's good to know that, many points were mentioned and I think they were all helpful.I myself haven't got the chance to buy it yet as it's a bit expensive in my country, plus I have many games that haven't even get it's 1st play.
Glad that you enjoy the game.
Regards
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Ægir Æx
Iceland
Reykjavik
Gullbringusysla
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I almost didn't buy this game either because of Toms review. It was the case with Endeavor as well. I guess I don't have a lot in common with him...
Anyways, thanks for the review.
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Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
The statement below is false.
The statement above is correct.
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I tend to enjoy all the games Tom Vasel doesn't like, too - it's interesting, yet not unheard of. Different tastes and all.
I wasn't that disappointed with the component quality myself - had nothing to fix or glue, and no iffy components that felt less-than-optimal. But, I got the German version, maybe that's made from a different cardstock altogether.
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I have played this more than once with different owners' sets and never had a problem with components, but I think the game is an awful snooze.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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haslo wrote: I tend to enjoy all the games Tom Vasel doesn't like, too - it's interesting, yet not unheard of. Different tastes and all.
I wasn't that disappointed with the component quality myself - had nothing to fix or glue, and no iffy components that felt less-than-optimal. But, I got the German version, maybe that's made from a different cardstock altogether.
I think the components were fine in the English version as well; I think many eurogamers have little affection for diecut counters generally, and anything other than extra large counters that fall from the sprue without pressure gets bad marks.
I don't understand why Vasel's reviews carry so much weight. I disagree with him more often than not, and seldom feel motivated to sit through them. I can spend a fraction of the time and get far better feedback from reading the comments of my GeekBuddies.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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I bought this for Christmas after a lot of research so I knew what I was letting myself in for, a Euro with a mathematical combat system. It is not a Dungeon crawl which many seem to think it is.
I knew it would be either a big hit or a big miss with my family so I deliberately underplayed the game (as I did with Agricola last year and it turned out to be a big hit with the family) I do think hype can damage a game long before it is given a chance. From that point of view I thought Tom's Vasel's review fair.
What I wanted/was worried about and what I found was:
1. Good components - They were very good except the cards are flimsy and will need sleeves, in particular the order cards which will see regular use. I do wish there was a way to buy new card sets easily, as you can with Catan. So the game fails for me there.
2. Game being fiddly and confusing- no, it was not in my opinion. There is a space for all the components and the turn phases are done very well. Everything is very clearly marked. A lot of thought was clearly put into making this game play as smooth as possible.
3. Complexity and speed of play - as I hoped the game sped along at a good pace. Like most Euros the rules are quite easy but they can be hidden in lots of rule waffle. This game is no exception although the rules are otherwise well written and very easy to follow as you play.
4. Depth of play - I assumed before I got it (mainly from negative reviews) that it would take a game or two to get a grip on the depth of the game rather than see it as a purely mechanical exercise. Even worse I was concerned the depth may be an illusion or just pasted on. But in our first play we soon started to see how we could manipulate other players and this was an important game element. I was happy this element came naturally out and was not an illusion. My 10 year old got it very quickly and was manipulating the evil meter and working out her likely position on the orders in no time, which which also shows the game is not as complex or dry as some seem to have made out. There were further subtle strategies starting to emerge as well. I was very happy about that. Solitaire gaming this is not.
5. Easy to learn - It's a game you can teach as you play. That suits my teaching style perfectly. I never talk for more than 5 minute's before we play a new game, it never works. The mechanics are intuitive and easy to teach.
6. Theme - The game is dripping with theme, the major reason I looked to buy in the first place. Myself and two of my children played and loved Dungeon Keeper. The game reflected this style very well.
After one play I agree with the Op. We had a lot of fun and we're looking forward to the next game. My fears for the game did not materialise and I am happy I bought it. The only remaining issue is replayability but as we have many games we play anyway I do not see this being an issue for some time, if ever.
I can understand why someone may find this game boring or disappointing. But that is true of all games. I do think some of the criticisms are due to not giving the game a chance to show what it can do or having the wrong expectations based on inadequate research before buying.
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Mark Chaplin
United Kingdom
Nottingham
Ice-choked tower, Mondavia, Nanglangka.
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Quote: Beautiful, Addictive, FUN
I found the game neither addictive nor capitals-fun, but the visuals have a certain cutesy charm.
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Bill Jones
United States
Niantic
Connecticut
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Sphere wrote: I don't understand why Vasel's reviews carry so much weight. I disagree with him more often than not, and seldom feel motivated to sit through them. I can spend a fraction of the time and get far better feedback from reading the comments of my GeekBuddies.
Sorry for being off-topic, but... 
I think it's quite simple why Tom's reviews carry the weight they do:
1. look at his collection of games - he has basically tried everything out there, and many of them to extremes (check out his collection of Heroscape expansions for instance). So he has a great comparison base.
2. he's very enthusiastic about the games he reviews, whether he likes them or not. Seems like a fun guy, who also happens to be persuasive.
3. he's got the most popular board game podcast in existence. So he's got a lot of people listening.
4. besides being informative, his video reviews are entertaining, with the theme music, his daughter in the background (and often featured), and often humorous bits with him throwing game pieces around, etc.
5. whether he likes the game or not, he always explains exactly what's good or bad about it in his opinion. And when gets a lot of feedback one way or another on a review, he'll often respond to it. So he's accountable.
6. the sheer number of reviews he's done is impressive, and the response is equally impressive. Most of his reviews on youtube have been viewed thousands of times and there are hundreds of them, so if you multiply the views by the number of reviews, you come up with a board game reviewer who has gotten millions of total views on YouTube.
7. a picture is worth 1000 words. I'll give an example - I've read many reviews on Pitchcar, some of them being wonderful reviews (Matt Drake's for example), but none of them can match the sudden and complete understanding the way Tom's video review does.
I could come up with more reasons why Tom's reviews carry the weight they do, but I think it's fairly obvious.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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wjones14 wrote: Sphere wrote: I don't understand why Vasel's reviews carry so much weight. I disagree with him more often than not, and seldom feel motivated to sit through them. I can spend a fraction of the time and get far better feedback from reading the comments of my GeekBuddies.
Sorry for being off-topic, but... :) I think it's quite simple why Tom's reviews carry the weight they do: 1. look at his collection of games - he has basically tried everything out there, and many of them to extremes (check out his collection of Heroscape expansions for instance). So he has a great comparison base. 2. he's very enthusiastic about the games he reviews, whether he likes them or not. Seems like a fun guy, who also happens to be persuasive. 3. he's got the most popular board game podcast in existence. So he's got a lot of people listening. 4. besides being informative, his video reviews are entertaining, with the theme music, his daughter in the background (and often featured), and often humorous bits with him throwing game pieces around, etc. 5. whether he likes the game or not, he always explains exactly what's good or bad about it in his opinion. And when gets a lot of feedback one way or another on a review, he'll often respond to it. So he's accountable. 6. the sheer number of reviews he's done is impressive, and the response is equally impressive. Most of his reviews on youtube have been viewed thousands of times and there are hundreds of them, so if you multiply the views by the number of reviews, you come up with a board game reviewer who has gotten millions of total views on YouTube. 7. a picture is worth 1000 words. I'll give an example - I've read many reviews on Pitchcar, some of them being wonderful reviews (Matt Drake's for example), but none of them can match the sudden and complete understanding the way Tom's video review does. I could come up with more reasons why Tom's reviews carry the weight they do, but I think it's fairly obvious.
That's why I like his reviews as well. I have far less interest in why someone likes or dislikes a game as that is always a matter of taste and largely irrelevant to me. Tom manages to give me enough feedback about a game to help me make an informed decision. It's like those who mark down a game because of its length despite it otherwise being a good game. That misses the whole point of reviews and game scoring in my opinion. Tom understands that so he always makes it clear it is his opinion and his summary is from his preferences and of course others will disagree. That does not make his reviews bad, in fact it makes them very balanced.
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Jamie Pollock
Scotland
Edinburgh
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I also agree with this review. Removing the monsters and adventurers from the card stock was painstaking and I eventually had to contact z-man to get some replacements for some that had torn sufficiently to affect gameplay.
The game itself I found enjoyable, although as a general rule of thumb, if I don't have 4 players I tend to prefer something else. The dummy players don't ruin gameplay but at the same time there's definitely an awkwardness to them. I find it hard to believe there couldn't have been a more elegant way to enable this to be functional for 2 and 3-players. Agricola did it better here.
I found the action phase part to be less enthralling than I expected, meanwhile the adventurer selection and adventurer battling parts were highly entertaining. The fact there's essentially two games for the price of one here shouldn't be sniffed at. I haven't yet tried the expansion tiles, but from my initial reading of the rules I must admit I'm not convinced they will add to the experience.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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Jambo wrote: I also agree with this review. Removing the monsters and adventurers from the card stock was painstaking and I eventually had to contact z-man to get some replacements for some that had torn sufficiently to affect gameplay.
The game itself I found enjoyable, although as a general rule of thumb, if I don't have 4 players I tend to prefer something else. The dummy players don't ruin gameplay but at the same time there's definitely an awkwardness to them. I find it hard to believe there couldn't have been a more elegant way to enable this to be functional for 2 and 3-players. Agricola did it better here.
I found the action phase part to be less enthralling than I expected, meanwhile the adventurer selection and adventurer battling parts were highly entertaining. The fact there's essentially two games for the price of one here shouldn't be sniffed at. I haven't yet tried the expansion tiles, but from my initial reading of the rules I must admit I'm not convinced they will add to the experience.
I find with these games you have to be very careful how you remove the parts. The actual surface seems to be very thin so even the slightest lack of cut with get you a tear. I agree for some they would not expect this as a possible issue and they may well damage the game. I always check and use a knife if I need to but as a wargamer I am used to it
I found the rounds dry at first but as we got more plays in and got used to reading other players boards and what they need it became a lot more interactive. It's definitely a game that has grown on me but I can fully appreciate those who dislike it, especially after the first play or two.
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Savino Palumbo
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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Nice concise review. I love this game.
I have to say though, I disagree with one of your pros: "simple enough to teach quickly"
It takes me a good half hour to teach this game. If the players are particularly prone to AP, then it could even be 40-45 minutes for teaching. I have found that new players get much more out of the game when you run through the four combat scenarios with them first. That way, when you teach building they will understand why they are trying to get traps, monsters, rooms, etc. The downside is that it takes forever to teach.
But yeah, I also had problems with torn pieces. That was definitely something I did not expect from such a high-profile game! Still, this is becoming one of my favorite games in my collection. After it's over, I usually want to jump back in and play all over again...
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