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Subject: Alexfrog's Navegador Strategy Guide rss

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Alex Rockwell
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Alexfrog's Navegador Strategy Guide!

Introduction

This guide is primarily focused on 3-5 player. 2 player is kind of a different animal (mainly in terms of how the economy ends up working), but some of the advice will still apply.

In Navegador, one of the primary things you should learn is that finding your own Niche in the economy is important. If you are doing the same thing that two other players are doing, while one guy does the opposite, that one player will have a large advantage over you. (For example, three players buying colonies while one player buys factories. The factory player wins).

What this means is that you need to be careful early on to not commit to a strategy until it becomes clear that this strategy will not be over-represented among the players.

Being in the strategy that several people are competing for is bad for several reasons:
* You can get stuck with less privileges, because they will take yours.
* You will often face low prices/profit for your goods/factories, as they will have already driven them into a poor position.
* You will have a harder time exploring if others do, as they might outpace your ships.
* You will pay more for colonies/factories/shipyards/churches, as they may have built the cheaper ones already.

Ideally you want to maneuver yourself into a position of being in an underrepresented strategy.


Player Position Order

The strategy of the player directly in front of you (before you) in player order is the most critical to you. Generally, if the player after you copies you, that isn’t so bad, as you will forever have the advantage over him of going first (driving down his prices, taking the building he wants, etc). But if your income strategy is based around selling Gold, for example, and the player before you buys Gold colonies, then you will have a problem getting good prices the entire game.

Ideally you want to adopt a strategy which benefits from the player before you. So in the case where he bought Gold colonies, you would want to buy Gold factories. Whenever he goes to the market, Gold prices will drop, and then you will be the first player able to benefit from this by using your Gold factories.

This also means that you must copy the strategy of another player, that it is best to copy the strategy of the player who is after you (as you will then have the position advantage on him). As long as you are the only two players doing this strategy, this works well. And therefore it follows that it is best to wait for the player on your right to commit to a strategy first, before you commit to one, so that he doesn’t screw you in this way.


New Players

I have noticed a strong tendency of new players (having just been taught the game), to focus heavily on moving ships around the board, collecting colonies, and making money with market actions. They are distracted by the shininess of the board. This tends to lead to a game state where the colonies/exploration strategies are overrepresented, and prices for goods are low. Therefore, in a game against new players I would recommend focusing on a factory strategy to take advantage of this, and pretty much ignoring ships. Some people have noted that a factory/church strategy seemed dominant in Navegador. That is definitely the case when only one person does it and everyone else moves ships around the board, because the under-represented strategy is winning.

(However, this doesn’t work if you tell them this. One time at BGG Con the person teaching the game to the new players mentioned that he had seen all new players overvalue getting ships, moving them around to get colonies, and undervalue factories. What happened in that game? The new players all ignored ships and bought a bunch of factories. The player who sailed and colonized won.


The Importance of Privileges

In order to score well, you will need to collect a lot of privileges, probably in two primary types, which you will focus on acquiring. Depending on game length, sometimes you might get one primary and one secondary in a short game, or two primaries that are filled out and a secondary item in a long game.

Very often I have seen a player who appears to be ahead in the midgame, who is collecting large amounts of income from his market actions, actually lose to a more experienced or stronger player, because he gets less privileges. The experienced player, dealing with a much lower income, focuses on maxing out his privileges and moving quickly around the Rondel, and comes out ahead. Because of the nature of scoring, most things that you do during the game will score only a small number of points. A certain couple things that you focus on will score you a lot of points. Staying focused and not trying to do some of everything is very important. A balanced strategy will not win in Navegador.


In order to keep up with or get ahead of your opponents in Privilege count, it is important to do two things:

* Move fairly quickly around the Rondel. Its much better to be moving 2-3 spaces most turns and hitting Privilege often, rather than often moving only one space. Skipping spaces that are weak for you is critical.
* Don’t skip privilege, except for very early on when you need to build up more workers.
* Don’t skip workers, unless you can skip it and have sufficient workers to go to privilege (due to Churches, an earlier multiple worker buy, or because you are in the endgame and calculate that you can lose a worker each time around the Rondel without running out).

Based on what your strategy is, you will want to find a 3-4 move path around the Rondel that collects a Privilege each cycle. I will discuss this more later.


Strategies

Strategies in Navegador are generally based on combinations of two scoring items which you will attempt to collect, along with the associated privileges. Some combinations are better than others. Different strategies will find different sources of income during the game.

Colony Strategy:
The colony strategy will attempt to collect a large number of colonies, and make money through selling goods. This strategy can often make the biggest market sales. A colony strategy probably does best if it doesn’t explore a ton, instead keeping ships and following behind people, using its large income to buy more colonies.

The colony strategy combines poorly with Factories, and I would not recommend this combo at all.

The colony strategy combines decently with exploration, however the drawback here is that you will keep losing ships off the board, making it hard to acquire a large number of colonies. Your movement around the Rondel will need to make stops at: Colony, Privilege, Ships (to get ships to replace those lost), Market (to make income), Sailing (to explore), Workers (to replenish lost workers). You can reduce worker or ship actions by getting shipyards or churches, but generally this is too many Rondel spaces that you are hitting, to collect Privileges well. You will need to skip some of these each time around the Rondel.
One reason that new players often do poorly in Navegador is that they instinctively go for this strategy (its a game about sailing, go move ships around and colonize and make money!). But then they go too slowly around the Rondel and don’t collect enough Privileges.

The colony strategy combines well with Shipyards, as you can replenish ship supplies well. This will allow you to do some exploration as well.

The colony strategy combines well with Churches, as you can get enough workers to take many colonies at once, and then can sometimes skip workers. This works well if you don’t use up your ships exploring, but instead simply spread out a lot for colony access.


Colony Strategy Income source: You will make money going to the market. You would like to have a type of colony (Gold or Sugar), that players before you have factories in, to get good market prices. If all factors are equal between Gold and Sugar, go for Gold, as its price is higher by default. This strategy will likely pick up Spices later on, and may pick up both Gold and Sugar colonies. It probably wont build any factories, instead relying on other players. (Its better to get more colonies for better scoring, than mix colonies of one type and factories of another, if scoring based on colonies).

A Colony strategy is likely to not have a fixed cycle around the Rondel, as you want to do many different things, however you need to not do everything each cycle. Sometimes you will want to go around the Rondel with Priveledge/Market/Workers/Priveledge. You will mix in Market, Ships, and Sailing actions when necessary but try not to need this each time.

Factory Strategy:
The factory strategy will score via large amounts of Factories, which also produce its income via market actions. One possible twist to this strategy is that if you can get sufficient income from other sources such as exploration later in the game, you might be able to stop choosing the market action. Your abandonment of the market will cause all goods prices to tank, which could screw over all opponents if they were counting on you to drive up prices of their goods!

Factories combine poorly with colonies as primary scoring targets, as explained above.

Factories combine decently with exploration, as you do not mind the loss of ships because you aren’t taking colonies. But this will only work if not many opponents are exploring, as you don’t want to spend actions just trying to get your ships to catch up with the leaders.

Factories combine decently with shipyards, because you can then make money exploring, and buying extra ships with lots of shipyards (which are sold for $100 each). This can allow you to abandon the market spaces and screw your opponents with low prices for their goods. You can develop into a Rondel cycle of Privilege/Ships/Factory/Workers, which later shortens to Priveledge/Factory/Priveledge/Factory in the endgame, with a sacrifice of two extra ships per cycle.

Factories combine best with Churches, as you are able to move up to 9 workers and then can buy Church + Factory or multiple Factories for one action. You will have a Rondel cycle of Privilege/Factory/Worker with this cycle, making money on both workers (going over 9 workers) and Privileges to provide income.

Exploration strategy:
Exploration is generally a good secondary strategy to many types of strategies, and not a primary strategy. For a 'true' exploration strategy, the best Rondel path is probably Privilege/Ships/Sailing/Workers, with Shipyards thrown in to buy extra ships. Late in the game, this can shorten to Priveledge/Ships/Sail/Priveledge with the sacrifice of a ship per cycle. You will get much more opportunity to explore with less players in the game, so I would recommend this as a primary strategy only in a small game.

Exploration will combine best with Shipyards, to replenish the ships lost to explorations. (Acquire shipyards early, build many ships, and then focus on getting many late exploration markers).

If the majority of your sailings during a game got an exploration token, that’s awesome. If not, you wasted time and would’ve been better off ignoring sailing. (Either ignoring ships completely, or just moving them to colony locations and sitting there collecting colonies), thus wasting a lot less actions sailing without getting an exploration token and money benefit.

Shipyard strategy:
Shipyards combine pretty well with everything but churches. The main problem they have is if too many players attempt to buy one shipyard, driving up your prices. Shipyards combine best with Exploration and Colonies, as those items utilize the extra ships.

A shipyard strategy will have the endgame advantage of extra ships to sacrifice to move around the Rondel faster and acquire more privileges. Generally you will need to use this advantage in the late game to be competitive.

Church Strategy:
Churches combine pretty well with any strategy other than Shipyards. Like shipyards, they get pricy if too many players are going for them. They combine best with Factories, and second best with Colonies to help you buy 3+ colonies at once. The church/factory strategy will likely not do any ship movement after the early game. The church/colony strategy will try not to explore, instead moving its several ships occasionally into position to acquire new colonies.


Summary of strategy combos:

Top combos:
Factory/Church Income Source: Market actions with Factories. Alternate: Workers space (after hitting the cap), Privileges.
Midgame Rondel path: Privilege/Buildings/Workers, adding in Market when necessary for money only. This short Rondel path is an advantage of this strategy. Biggest drawback: Inability to use the Navegador effectively.

Colony/Shipyard Income Source: Market. Midgame Rondel path: Privilege/(Ships or Market or Build)/(Sailing or Workers or Market)/Colony. Sailing will be mostly to access new colonies, not to explore. Buying extra workers with your high income will enable skipping the workers space. Builds are done mostly early midgame to get shipyards. Endgame Rondel path: Privilege/X/Colony (burning ships to move extra).

Colony/Church Income Source: Market. Midgame Rondel path: Privilege/Market/(Sailing or Workers)/Colony
A buy of extra ships early is useful, and then maintaining those ships through the game. Builds will occur early/midgame to buy churches.

Exploration/Shipyard Do tons of exploring, using shipyards to replenish ships and allow extra Rondel movement. Income source: Exploration + Ships(extras) + Privileges. This strategy is interesting as it ignores the normal economy, ignoring factories and colonies and market! Midgame Rondel path: Privilege/Ships/Sailing (burn a ship). Earlier you need to fit in shipyard builds, and workers with an extra worker buy. You will probably need to get a couple colonies early and go to the market in order to get going. The goal is that once you get going, you never go to the market again, collecting money in small amounts from each action, and then occasionally spending it on a shipyard, or extra worker buy. Once you have enough shipyard, you don't need workers for anything, so you can skip workers and go down to 2.


The bad combos, any why they are bad
Colony/Factory is bad because you need to do everything. You need many workers to get lots of factories at once and you need ships plus sailing some to get colonies. This strategy will want to hit all 8 Rondel spaces at various times in the midgame and lategame, effectively going slow and getting insufficient priviliges. This is the "Strategy" that many new players adopt, and they will try to get one Shipyard and one Church too to allow them to not have to go to workers and ships every time, and they end up with some of everything and not many priviliges, and get crushed. Don't do this! Choose a couple things to ignore heavily!

Shipyard/Church is bad because all your scoring targets get expensive and you can acquire enough of them at once, with only one Rondel space giving you any of your scoring items. Also, neither of these provide good income. Combining one of these with Factories works better, as its easier to buy something like Factory+Church/Shipyard, and the Factories give income. Combining one of these with Colonies works well too.


Opening Moves
On the first turn, you can start anywhere on the Rondel, so what are the good starting spaces?

Privilege is bad, you get almost no money from it and go down to 2 workers which is terrible.

Market is bad, you get $30.

Workers would be nice, in that early on you need to build up workers, but it has the problem that your second move is bad, as none of Market, Colony or Privilege will be good at this time. The exception is that the player holding the Navegador card could go to workers, and then in the second action can use the Navegador to sail, followed by going to Colony.

Sailing is interesting, it gets you first shot at a new colony and the money to buy it. However, you are left with one ship, and therefore you will not be able to buy more than one colony with one action, making your colony action weak. But this can be a reasonable opening. It leaves you with lots of money. This is a good way to launch a shipyard strategy, with the opening line of Sailing, Worker, Colony, Market, Buildings(Shipyard).

Buildings is interesting, and is strong unless too many people do it. Its great if you’re the only one to start on buildings. If three or more people start here its horrible. This is a good start against new players who probably will sail and colonize too much (unless they simply copy you and all buy a factory). If you’re not first and others open up by sailing, this is the best way to go.

Ships is interesting, it allows you to launch a fleet and explore later, and then be able to buy two colonies at once (with a worker), and also enables exploring twice in the early game. The issue with this strategy is that you end up very poor, so while your sailing and colonizing are efficient, you may struggle for money. If you can manage to get two colonies in one action early on in the game, then this is an awesome start.

Your position relative to the Navegador card, and what the people before you do, is important to choosing your opening. Generally its better to do different things than the players before you. If you start with the Navegador, good paths are: Workers/(Navegador)+Colony, or Buildings/Workers/Market/(Navegador)+Colony. If you will be the second player to get the Navegador card, it could be good to play with a goal of getting two colonies early, via something like: Buildings/Workers/Market/(Navegador)+Colony. This works best if you move two ships somewhere that was just explored and snag the two cheap colonies.


A sample Shipyard (Sail first) strategy opening:
Sailing($200+X), Worker($150+X), Colony($150), Market($220), Buildings(Shipyard). Early midgame goals: Get more colonies and make good market income. Get a shipyard privilege. Build up ships. Perform an extra worker buy before age II hits. This is a strategy for someone not with the Navegador card.

A sample Factory (Build first) strategy opening:
Buildings(Gold or Sugar factory), Workers, Market($160), Privilege-Factory Privilege($220), Buildings(Factory)-$150 left, Workers(buy extra worker for $100!). You now have 5 workers, 3 factories and a privilege already, but need money.

A sample Colony (Ships first) strategy opening, 2nd player to receive Navegador:
Ships($150 left), Buildings($100), Workers($50), Market($110), (Navegador)+2 Colonies. This has more income due to the factory.

A sample Colony (Ships first) opening, not receiving Navegador early:
Ships($150), Sailing($150+X), Workers($100+X), Colony (2 colonies). The drawback here is that this leaves an opportunity for others to jump in and grab your colonies first. Alternately, both nearby starting areas might get explored before you do your Sailing action. If that occurs, you might do a quick loop around the Rondel followed by sailing again and then picking up two cheap colonies further away from everyone.

A sample Navegador card based opening:
Workers, (Navegador)+Colony, Market. You can continue with Buildings(Shipyard), or to Workers and then more colonies.

Note that many of these openings are still very flexible, having one colony or one factory does not commit you to going for more of that type. You can buy a colony and then go for factories of a different good, or vice versa, and while the one item of the opposite kind of your main strategy wont score well, it will provide early income which is very useful. Getting 4 Colonies and 4 factories on the other hand is kindof wasteful, as you wont score well.


Age changes and Extra Workers/Ships

When the age changes happen can have a big impact on the game. It is important to grab your privileges of the types you need BEFORE an age change, in order to have them get replenished. Often if Age I goes fast, it means people are out of ships and age II will go slowly, meaning the privileges run out! If age I goes slowly, age II will go fast, as ships will be built up and ready to explore. Being aware of this can tell you when you need to rush around the Rondel (3 turn paths), to grab privileges, instead of taking 4-5 turns to go around.

Also, if an age takes a long time, that is probably a sign that you might want to buy extras of whichever of Workers of Ships you need and don’t have Shipyards/Churches for. For example, if Age I goes long, look to grab an extra ship and build churches, or grab and extra worker and build shipyards.

Don’t buy an extra ship or worker on the first time around the Rondel, it will break you. You need to develop an income and pull in some money before doing this. If you get ahead of your opponents on income and are able to cash in at some point during the game, using this extra cash to buy a or multiple bonus workers/ships is a strong way to solidify your advantage. This will allow you to skip that space on the Rondel sometimes, enabling you to move faster around and get more Privileges!


Market avoidance strategies

In the late midgame and endgame, many strategies will do better to avoid the Market completely. This is especially true when prices for you are poor, and whenever you go to the market you give great prices to opponents. It is also especially true if the leader(s) in the game are dependant on your going to the market to give them good prices.

There are more ways to make money in the game than just the market. Especially later in the game, decent money can be made from Privileges and Exploration, and also a big Shipyard or Church player can make money on Ships/Workers respectively. Often if you make a big market sale while prices are great for you, you can ride that money for a long time, supplementing it with small gains from other sources.

The main goal of this strategy is to move around the Rondel faster and collect more privileges and items that score for you. The secondary benefit is the pain it causes your opponents by hurting their market prices. Look for the opportunity to do this in your games, when performing non-colony strategies.

This can be especially effective when other players don’t realize for a long time that you never need to go to the market again! If they keep waiting for you to go to the market before going, to get better prices, when they are desperate to go to the market, it can really hurt them. I played one game in which one player got way ahead of the other two of us on income. He had both Gold and Sugar colonies. I was the Factory player, and simply stopped going to the market, sending all his prices to a low value. While he needed money he avoided the market, waiting for me to improve his prices. By the time he finally went to market again we had caught up to him.


Miscellaneous advice

*Avoid Colonies and Factories of the same types:
Generally, you don’t want to have both a colony and a factory in the same good type, as only one will be usable each market action. Its perfectly fine to have Gold colonies and Sugar factories however. (Though you probably want to have only a couple, early ones of whichever of those is not your primary strategy. Getting 5 Sugar colonies and 5 Gold factories wont lead to good scoring.

*Grab the opposite type of colony as the player in front of you:
If the player in front of you gets a Gold colony, or moves ships into the region with Gold colonies, you'll want to go for Sugar.

*Grab the type of factories that the player in front of you got Colonies in:
So they player before you spend his first move doing Sailing->Move into the Gold region. What do you do? Start on Buildings->Gold factory! He will be buying a gold colony and probably more later, driving down gold prices for you.

Lets say you have the Navegador, and the player in front of you explores the Gold region. Lets say you now have an opportunity to Navegador and buy two cheap Gold colonies in that region. Should you do this? NO! He will buy one Gold colony and then be in front of you driving the Gold price down all game. Now, if you have the opportunity to jump on cheap Gold colonies opened up by the guy AFTER you, should you? Yes! Move in there and steal his colonies. If he buys one now, you’re in front of him, screwing his prices over all game!

*Ignore Spice colonies in non-Colony strategies:
New players often get distracted by the high $80 price of Spice midgame, and go for spice colonies when not playing a colony based strategy. This is a waste of time. Non colony strategies need to be focusing on their Privilege items midgame, and probably wont be taking market actions super often.

*Move around the Rondel quickly in the late midgame and endgame:
Even if others make way more money than you in the Market, getting more Privileges than them will often mean that you win anyways.

*Skip Privilege early to build up workers to the level you need (to buy a Church/Shipyard/Multiple Colonies at once), and then never skip it again. An extra worker buy early can mean one less skipping of Privilege, so look for the opportunity.


Conclusion

Here is a summary of these principles:

* For most of the game, focus heavily on Privileges and acquiring the items that score with those Privileges you have. Moves which acquire items that you don’t have privileges for are wasteful.

* Don’t go into a strategy that too many players are in. Choose an under-represented strategy.

* Don’t go into the strategy of the player in front of you. Instead, do the opposite (colonies of the type of his factories and vice versa, or colonies of opposite type).

* When duplicating an opponent's strategy, copy the player after you. You will have positional advantage on him all game.

* Some main combos: Factory/Church, Colony/Shipyard, Colony/Church, Exploration/Shipyard.

* Exploration is a good second strategy for pretty much anything, provided that there aren’t too many opponents doing it. When too many people compete for exploration, they spent a lot of time moving ships without exploring to simply catch up.

* Open on either Ships, Buildings, or Sailing. Its better to do an opening that not too many opponents do. With the Navegador card to start, you can open on Workers as well, followed by Navegador/Colony.

* Wait to see what the player in front of you commits to as his strategy before you commit to yours. Don’t duplicate his strategy. Its strong if your strategy benefits from his. (Factories after colonies of a good type or vice versa).

* The winner will generally be the player who has the best primary privilege/item combinations. Focus beats diversity in Navegador.

* Pronouncing the game as "Navegador" is infinitely superior to "Navigator". If you call the game by the correct name and lose to someone who doesn't, then you probably had more fun and thus were the real winner!
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Romain Jacques
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Excellent advices for this excellent game. Bravo Alex!
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Brian Brokaw
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Um, this forum post is FREAKING AWESOME!!! Informative, intelligent, succinct.

(As opposed to THIS (my) post which provides none of those things )
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Dave Kudzma
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I'm also of the mind that it's not an advantage to push for the Nagasaki ending yourself. You'd be far better off letting the game come to a building ending instead of trying to push the game to a close yourself.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Very nice. My only comment is that I'm not sure about colonies+factories necessarily being a bad idea, so long as they are both well-matched to the previous player, and going for a church or shipyard strategy. Especially church. The extra money early can be huge, and with extra workers from church, you can buy a church and a factory in one buy on last couple trips past the Buliding space. Likewise, you can buy many colonies in one buy, usually just limited by having enough ships in place (never discovering a new territory helps preserve ships). Huge market pulls can free you from making as many trips to the market, thus also helping to ensure that it is in a favorable state when you actually do go.
 
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Paul Lister
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Great article.

I am now 7 games in and love the fact that you need to focus on doing what others don't.
 
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Morgan Dontanville
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I played this last night. I went for the "Money Strategy" with Factories and Colonies and while I close in last place, I believe (as you also say above) it just isn't viable.
 
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Dave Kudzma
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sisteray wrote:
I played this last night. I went for the "Money Strategy" with Factories and Colonies and while I close in last place, I believe (as you also say above) it just isn't viable.


Yep, it's true. I've had MUCH more success with just one or the other.
 
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Joe Ganis
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This guide
Very well thought out. Thank you for posting this.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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curtc wrote:
Very nice. My only comment is that I'm not sure about colonies+factories necessarily being a bad idea, so long as they are both well-matched to the previous player, and going for a church or shipyard strategy. Especially church. The extra money early can be huge, and with extra workers from church, you can buy a church and a factory in one buy on last couple trips past the Buliding space. Likewise, you can buy many colonies in one buy, usually just limited by having enough ships in place (never discovering a new territory helps preserve ships). Huge market pulls can free you from making as many trips to the market, thus also helping to ensure that it is in a favorable state when you actually do go.


Well, my experience is that neither of these work. (I mean, some combos have to be weaker than other combos right?). These combos definitely seem weaker than most to me. For church+shipyard, if you want to buy both at once you had to skip Privilege that round, which should pretty much never happen later in the game. For the 'money strategy' of factories + colonies, even if you always get good market prices, the main issue is that you need every space on the Rondel.
 
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Morgan Dontanville
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Alexfrog wrote:
curtc wrote:
Very nice. My only comment is that I'm not sure about colonies+factories necessarily being a bad idea, so long as they are both well-matched to the previous player, and going for a church or shipyard strategy. Especially church. The extra money early can be huge, and with extra workers from church, you can buy a church and a factory in one buy on last couple trips past the Buliding space. Likewise, you can buy many colonies in one buy, usually just limited by having enough ships in place (never discovering a new territory helps preserve ships). Huge market pulls can free you from making as many trips to the market, thus also helping to ensure that it is in a favorable state when you actually do go.


Well, my experience is that neither of these work. (I mean, some combos have to be weaker than other combos right?). These combos definitely seem weaker than most to me. For church+shipyard, if you want to buy both at once you had to skip Privilege that round, which should pretty much never happen later in the game. For the 'money strategy' of factories + colonies, even if you always get good market prices, the main issue is that you need every space on the Rondel.


Also there isn't a multiplier on money.
 
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Dave Kudzma
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sisteray wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
curtc wrote:
Very nice. My only comment is that I'm not sure about colonies+factories necessarily being a bad idea, so long as they are both well-matched to the previous player, and going for a church or shipyard strategy. Especially church. The extra money early can be huge, and with extra workers from church, you can buy a church and a factory in one buy on last couple trips past the Buliding space. Likewise, you can buy many colonies in one buy, usually just limited by having enough ships in place (never discovering a new territory helps preserve ships). Huge market pulls can free you from making as many trips to the market, thus also helping to ensure that it is in a favorable state when you actually do go.


Well, my experience is that neither of these work. (I mean, some combos have to be weaker than other combos right?). These combos definitely seem weaker than most to me. For church+shipyard, if you want to buy both at once you had to skip Privilege that round, which should pretty much never happen later in the game. For the 'money strategy' of factories + colonies, even if you always get good market prices, the main issue is that you need every space on the Rondel.


Also there isn't a multiplier on money.


There is absolutely no reason to try and earn VP's directly from money.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Alexfrog wrote:
For church+shipyard, ...

Clearly that's bad. I hope you didn't think I was saying that.

Alexfrog wrote:
For the 'money strategy' of factories + colonies, even if you always get good market prices, the main issue is that you need every space on the Rondel.

I'm not saying money is the primary strategy. I'm saying a couple colonies and factories (and not necessarily balanced) can aid in a church or ship strategy. You never need to stop on ships, sailing very rarely (relying on the free sail to move into locations to buy colonies, which only happens a couple times). You have to hit Buildings with any strategy. The only extra space you hit is Colony, and you only do that twice, for usually 3 colonies. And you go to Market fewer times. But you gain more points for the colonies/factories vs getting the same money by going to market. Anyway, I think you've thought about this more than I have, so I'm not emphatically disagreeing with you, just sharing my experience. Full disclosure: I've only played with mostly the same group. There could be a bit of group think. But I'll keep in mind what you're saying and compare. Also, as I mentioned in another thread, I was playing wrong (adding, not replenishing privileges, AND using 1/2/3 for all numbers of players--oops).
 
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Lacombe
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Alexfrog wrote:
The bad combos, any why they are bad
Colony/Factory is bad because you need to do everything. You need many workers to get lots of factories at once and you need ships plus sailing some to get colonies. This strategy will want to hit all 8 Rondel spaces at various times in the midgame and lategame, effectively going slow and getting insufficient priviliges. This is the "Strategy" that many new players adopt, and they will try to get one Shipyard and one Church too to allow them to not have to go to workers and ships every time, and they end up with some of everything and not many priviliges, and get crushed. Don't do this! Choose a couple things to ignore heavily!

Shipyard/Church is bad because all your scoring targets get expensive and you can acquire enough of them at once, with only one Rondel space giving you any of your scoring items. Also, neither of these provide good income. Combining one of these with Factories works better, as its easier to buy something like Factory+Church/Shipyard, and the Factories give income. Combining one of these with Colonies works well too.


I'm almost positive these were the two winning strategies in a 5p game last night, if I'm remembering how it played out. It was two new players adopting these strategies, too, with the two experienced players at the table pursuing something like Colony/Shipyard and Explore/Shipyard [it's hard to really remember all 5 game positions, my being totally new to the game].

I was the Factory/Colony and got very few privileges [3, I think]. I ended with 77 points, I think, 36 of which came from colonies, 18 from factories, and a full 5 from money. I didn't buy a single shipyard or church. I bought maybe 3 ships throughout the game; explored twice for chips, picked up a nice double-whammy free-sail=>colony action in the middle, and sat at 3 workers to buy factories.

The game winner edged me out by about 5 or 6 points. He was extremely heavy in Churches [5 at game end, I think?] and had a few Shipyards to boot, if I recall. He was crazy full of workers and got money from a few colonies and his privilege actions. I'm pretty sure he had the most privileges at the table. He was very clearly the runaway leader for about the latter half of the game. No one was even close to catching him.
 
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NateStraight wrote:

The game winner edged me out by about 5 or 6 points. He was extremely heavy in Churches [5 at game end, I think?] and had a few Shipyards to boot, if I recall. He was crazy full of workers and got money from a few colonies and his privilege actions. I'm pretty sure he had the most privileges at the table. He was very clearly the runaway leader for about the latter half of the game. No one was even close to catching him.


He won because he had more privileges it seems. Was it a church+shipyard straegy, or was it a church + colony strategy that happened to have a couple extra shipyards?
 
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curtc wrote:

I'm not saying money is the primary strategy. I'm saying a couple colonies and factories (and not necessarily balanced) can aid in a church or ship strategy.


I think thats always a good idea. You need some amount of colonies+factories early on in order to get going.

By colony+factory strategy, I'm talking about getting like 8 colonies and 8 factories and 3 privileges in each. Not getting a couple of one of them for income early.
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Alexfrog wrote:
NateStraight wrote:

The game winner edged me out by about 5 or 6 points. He was extremely heavy in Churches [5 at game end, I think?] and had a few Shipyards to boot, if I recall. He was crazy full of workers and got money from a few colonies and his privilege actions. I'm pretty sure he had the most privileges at the table. He was very clearly the runaway leader for about the latter half of the game. No one was even close to catching him.


He won because he had more privileges it seems. Was it a church+shipyard straegy, or was it a church + colony strategy that happened to have a couple extra shipyards?


He had very few colonies and built very few ships during the game, as I recall. I think he might have had 3 or 4 colonies, and then he built a couple of ships near the end with his spare cash [and shipyard discounts] to rack up some last minute points.
 
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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I wish I could be a part of this conversation... but I haven't yet had a chance to play this game! soblue

This used to be the #1 game on my WANT TO PLAY list. Now I want to play it even more. I'm drooling with excitement. I don't know whether to thank you or to curse you!
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Curt Carpenter
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domcrap wrote:
This used to be the #1 game on my WANT TO PLAY list.

Now you have made me very curious. If this USED to be #1 on your want to play list, and you still haven't played it, but are are drooling with excitement, what has displaced it as your #1 want to play game???
 
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Adam O'Brien
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An opening I like being the player to start with the Navegador:

First action = Ships, buying 2, $50 left.

Second action = Navegador + Sailing (i.e. double sail). This will gain you two exploration tokens and two discovery $ payouts.

Third action = Worker, buying 1

Fourth action = Colony, gaining two colonies (using the money you got from the colonies to buy them). If the player that received the Navegador snaked one of the colonies from you, you could do a weak market as your fourth action if it affords you two colonies in your fifth.

This leaves you after four turns with: 2 ships, 4 workers, 2 different colonies, 2 exploration tokens, and in position on the rondel to take a privilege. I feel like this is a pretty strong start. Having a gold and a sugar plantation allows you to sell-sell-process as your first market action, which will be a nice early cash injection as well.
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Sean McCarthy
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3dicebombers wrote:
Second action = Navegador + Sailing (i.e. double sail). This will gain you two exploration tokens and two discovery $ payouts.


... but it only works if two other players don't sail on turn one or two. My experience is still that the people earlier in the turn order will not leave this type of opportunity there for you.
 
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Paul Lister
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SevenSpirits wrote:
3dicebombers wrote:
Second action = Navegador + Sailing (i.e. double sail). This will gain you two exploration tokens and two discovery $ payouts.


... but it only works if two other players don't sail on turn one or two. My experience is still that the people earlier in the turn order will not leave this type of opportunity there for you.


With a double sail you go through the areas already discovered with the first sail and to undiscovered areas with the second sail
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Sean McCarthy
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Sorp222 wrote:
With a double sail you go through the areas already discovered with the first sail and to undiscovered areas with the second sail


You must have missed where he said you get two exploration tokens and two colony payouts. Doing so requires you to get one on your navegador sail.
 
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Paul Lister
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SevenSpirits wrote:
Sorp222 wrote:
With a double sail you go through the areas already discovered with the first sail and to undiscovered areas with the second sail


You must have missed where he said you get two exploration tokens and two colony payouts. Doing so requires you to get one on your navegador sail.


Nope I think you missed the bit where he said he had purchased 2 ships, making four i.e 2 fleets which sail twice ;- hence 2 discoveries and 2 payouts
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Adam O'Brien
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SevenSpirits wrote:
3dicebombers wrote:
Second action = Navegador + Sailing (i.e. double sail). This will gain you two exploration tokens and two discovery $ payouts.


... but it only works if two other players don't sail on turn one or two. My experience is still that the people earlier in the turn order will not leave this type of opportunity there for you.



No. You have 4 ships. Use the Navegador action to move all of them into Guine. Then use your sail action to move two to Angola and two to Rio de Janeiro. It would be impossible for other players to have reached those spaces by your second turn.

If other players haven't sailed in their first two turns, you could possibly discover the closer sea spaces (Bahia and Guine), but Angola and Rio will definitely be available, and result in the scenario I described above.
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