Tibs
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Bridges
In the normal game, if you draw a tile that you are unable to place legally, you have to discard it from the game and draw a new tile.

But now, what if you draw a tile that cannot be legally placed except when a bridge is used? Are you required to place the tile and then to use the bridge as appropriate? Or is bridge placement always optional and you can declare the tile "illegal" and re-draw?


Castles
Can a player who makes a 2-tile city opt to turn it into a castle but not to occupy it? If he does not occupy it, is it considered completed? Wouldn't this be a cheap way to sabotage other players' castles, by constructing "unoccupied" 0-point castles in opponents' castles' vicinities?

It's difficult to determine when a castle is completed or not. I understand that you place a follower in the castle, and the castle is scored when the first feature in its vicinity is finished. But what if the follower is ejected beforehand? The owner has not scored any points, but is the castle completed or not?

Let's say two castles are in vicinity of one another. If a follower is ejected from a castle (dragon, plague), and that castle is immediately considered completed, does that mean that the other castle is considered completed for 0 points?

Let's again say two castles are in vicinity of one another. Suddenly, multiple features are completed, but the castles do not share the same features. For example, Castle A has in its vicinity a feature that scored 6 points that Castle B does not have in its vicinity. Castle B has in its vicinity a feature that scored 10 points that Castle A does not have in its vicinity. There is a third feature, 8 points, that is in both castles' vicinities. If Castle B chooses first, he could choose the 10 point feature, but then since Castle A has Castle B (now worth 10 points) in its vicinity, he could choose to take 10 points. But if Castle A chooses first, he can't score 10 points because he can only choose between the 6-point and 8-point feature. So, who chooses first?

At the end of the game, "unfinished" castles score no points. But does a farmer still score 4 points for each castle touching his farm, regardless of whether that castle scored any points during the game?


Bazaars
Can you opt to play your Abbey tile instead of the tile you acquired during the Bazaar auction?

What happens when there aren't enough tiles in the bag to satisfy the "one per player" condition? Does the game immediately end? Or does it end after the last tile is placed?

If there are only X tiles available, do only the next X players get to participate in the auction, or can all players participate, such that it's possible that a player in last place can win a tile for placement, and a player before him does not?

(dependent upon answers to the above):
If there aren't enough tiles in the bag to satisfy the "one per player" bazaar condition,
AND a player in last place won a tile for placement, but a player before him (named Jeff) did not,
when it is Jeff's turn, can he place his unplayed Abbey (because there are unplayed tiles left)? Or is he forced to skip his turn (because there are no tiles left in the bag)?
 
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Alastiar M
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Regarding the bridges question, I'd say that you do have to play it if it's legal with a bridge. It might seem unfair, but if it's possible you have to do it.
 
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brian
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Bridges - I'd let your friends determine this - as according to the rules,they have to confirm there is no legal placement. But as many times as I have played carc, I have never had to redraw because of and illegal placement so for me it is not a practical concern.

Castles. Rules state you place a castle and a follower. So you can't place a castle without placing a meeple. However, the castle it self does not score so you couldn't sabotage other castles anyway. The castle would score as normal once the first feature within its vicinity scores and that is the score that would transfer to the other castles if in range.

So far, meeples are exempt from the dragon and tower because they are not on a tile - the castle protects them. I am not sure how the plague works. But the meeple in the castle has no bearing on the scoring of the castle - just the completed feature.

As to choosing what score you take, the owner of the castle determines. So if I make my castle X points but the other player has a choice between my castle X and another feature Y he can choose what he wants. If there is a conflict, current player should probably choose first and then proceed clockwise in player order.

Farms score for castles regardless if the castles them selves ever scored.

Bazaars - I would say you cannot opt to play the Abbey first. With the Abbey, you must choose to use it OR draw. You cannot decide to draw, then go back to the Abbey. Likewise, the auction is a form of "drawing" and so would prevent use of the Abbey for this turn.

If there are not enough tiles for each player, I would say the auction does not take place. All the auction is doing is trying to change up how tiles are drawn for the next round. This should then end any further questions as the condition would not happen.

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Tibs
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
So far, meeples are exempt from the dragon and tower because they are not on a tile - the castle protects them. I am not sure how the plague works. But the meeple in the castle has no bearing on the scoring of the castle - just the completed feature.

Well, fleas also remove followers from the board so if castles followers are exempt from the Tower and the Dragon, they might as well be exempt from the Plague as well.

Quote:
If there are not enough tiles for each player, I would say the auction does not take place. All the auction is doing is trying to change up how tiles are drawn for the next round. This should then end any further questions as the condition would not happen.

The problem with this is that you may not even know how many tiles are left in the bag. Drawing them first and finding out there are too few will reveal the remaining tiles to all players, but not auction them off. If the Bazaar round is just an alternative to drawing them normally, shouldn't the auction still go through, with only the remaining X players allowed to participate (all others are out)?
 
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Christof Tisch
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kungfro wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
So far, meeples are exempt from the dragon and tower because they are not on a tile - the castle protects them. I am not sure how the plague works. But the meeple in the castle has no bearing on the scoring of the castle - just the completed feature.

Well, fleas also remove followers from the board so if castles followers are exempt from the Tower and the Dragon, they might as well be exempt from the Plague as well.

The editor decided that meeples wont be removed be either the dragon nor the plague.

Quote:
If there are not enough tiles for each player, I would say the auction does not take place. All the auction is doing is trying to change up how tiles are drawn for the next round. This should then end any further questions as the condition would not happen.

The problem with this is that you may not even know how many tiles are left in the bag. Drawing them first and finding out there are too few will reveal the remaining tiles to all players, but not auction them off. If the Bazaar round is just an alternative to drawing them normally, shouldn't the auction still go through, with only the remaining X players allowed to participate (all others are out)?


Well if you play with the bag it is really not so easy to see of the number is sufficient for all the players. Often people play with stacks of tiles or the card tower, so there it is good to see. The official rule is (like said) that the bazaar does not take place and is only laid out as a normal card.

In the other matters Brian also did say it like it is official.
Regarding the unfitting cards, I would say that you do not have to play a bridge, it ist always voluntarily.

Also the question about so many buildings being finished with one card in the vicity of two castles, but not being in both of them is quite theoretically. But in a case like this Brian has written the solution.

Regards

Christof
 
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Tibs
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I thought it was a recommendation, and not official. I'll be careful to feel inside the bag whenever there's a late game bazaar.
 
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brian
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You can't (officially) have more than 6 players. It is not difficult to count 6 tiles in a bag without drawing them first. You will know when you are getting close to the end.

But not everyone plays with a bag to draw tiles, some use the tower, others, like myself, just stack them on the table. So this is not a problem for them.

The rules say draw enough tiles for all players. So if you don't have enough tiles, I don't think you should be able to auction.

Only allowing X number of players in the auction and the rest just to sit out might work as a houserule. it would be interesting to see what kind of impact the bidding would have though.
 
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Tibs
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Well I have enough pieces to support up to 11 players, so I can go beyond 6. No rules will change, except for the fact that players will be dealt only 1 castle and 1 bridge (and no abbeys). But this is irrelevant to the "run out of tiles" situation.

I use the bag because I don't have the tower, and stacking will take too long.
 
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brian
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That is why I said "officially" as I too can host up to 12 but don't like going beyond 8 in extreme cases. Regardless, it isn't a monumental task to count 12 tiles out. Again, you will have an idea of when you are close and when counting become necessary.

Stacking shouldn't take very long. Especially with 12. I store all mine in a Plano box so they are all facing the same way. Just toss them on the table, mix them up and every one grab to form a couple stacks in front of them. Less wear on the tiles too.
 
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Gabriele Pezzato
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Quote:
Bazaars
Can you opt to play your Abbey tile instead of the tile you acquired during the Bazaar auction?

What happens when there aren't enough tiles in the bag to satisfy the "one per player" condition? Does the game immediately end? Or does it end after the last tile is placed?

If there are only X tiles available, do only the next X players get to participate in the auction, or can all players participate, such that it's possible that a player in last place can win a tile for placement, and a player before him does not?

(dependent upon answers to the above):
If there aren't enough tiles in the bag to satisfy the "one per player" bazaar condition,
AND a player in last place won a tile for placement, but a player before him (named Jeff) did not,
when it is Jeff's turn, can he place his unplayed Abbey (because there are unplayed tiles left)? Or is he forced to skip his turn (because there are no tiles left in the bag)?


From the official Big Box 3 rules (page 13):

Too few tiles: if a player places a bazaar and there are not enough face-down tiles for all players, no tile auction
occurs. The players ignore the bazaar on the tile and the tile is played as normal.


 
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brian
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Thanks for the quote. I know I had read this as an official answer but wasn't sure where.
 
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Tibs
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Thank you! I don't have any of the big-boxes. It's cool to know that at least one big-box has extra rules to cover extra situations.

Also, any word back on whether the inns on tiles function as inns? I'm playing it that way no matter what, because that's ridiculous, but I'm still curious.
 
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brian
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kungfro wrote:
Thank you! I don't have any of the big-boxes. It's cool to know that at least one big-box has extra rules to cover extra situations.

Also, any word back on whether the inns on tiles function as inns? I'm playing it that way no matter what, because that's ridiculous, but I'm still curious.

I play them that way. We had an issue with the mini-expansion a long time ago. A pig farm appeared on it. We all played it as a pig farm. Jay said it wasn't and that he was just filling out the tile with artwork. I always thought that a lame answer and ignored him.

Since this is coming directly from HiG, I don't think they just filled up the tile with spare art. So I am pretty sure they are meant to be Inns. If you don't have Inns & Cathedrals, you can ignore them. But if you have it, use it.
 
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Tibs
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That's a good answer. I wanted to play the pigs as pigs, but I figured it would be easier on everyone's sanity if I just made a new tile depicting the grass patch without the pigs. I used one of the tiles from the "Creativity" expansion (the other was also used to re-print a confusing tile). Unfortunately I had difficulty getting the color to match just right so I've gone back to using the pig tile and have pretty much said "screw it; they're pigs."

I mean, an all-grass tile? What else is that going to be used for but farming?
 
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Gabriele Pezzato
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kungfro wrote:
Thank you! I don't have any of the big-boxes. It's cool to know that at least one big-box has extra rules to cover extra situations.

Also, any word back on whether the inns on tiles function as inns? I'm playing it that way no matter what, because that's ridiculous, but I'm still curious.


They indeed look like inns. Besides, there's a tile summary sheet in the big box. There are two tiles with a vertical road and a bazaar in the middle: the summary treats them as two different tiles, whereas normally similar tiles are usually grouped. Guess what, the only difference between the two tiles is the inn on the lake...
 
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Gabriele Pezzato
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Anyway, all 3 big boxes instruction booklets are available as pdf files on the RGG website
 
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Christof Tisch
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kungfro wrote:
Well I have enough pieces to support up to 11 players, so I can go beyond 6. No rules will change, except for the fact that players will be dealt only 1 castle and 1 bridge (and no abbeys). But this is irrelevant to the "run out of tiles" situation.

I use the bag because I don't have the tower, and stacking will take too long.


A tip for easy handling:

If you use the Bazaar and play with that many players you could easily count 12 (or any other number of players) random tiles and stack them outside the bag. These cards are played at the end of the game, if the bag is empty. So you can always see if there are enough cards for a bazaar.
 
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Tibs
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Actually, I decided that the entire "auction" mechanic wasn't for me, as it was too complicated to explain and broke the gameplay too much.

So I've been using this variant:

A Bazaar can be occupied, like a Cloister. A Bazaar is finished when it is fully surrounded, like a Cloister. A finished Bazaar scores its owner 2 point per completed city involved in its 9-space "neighborhood," and 1 point for each of the 9 tiles in its neighborhood that depicts at least one house on grass or at a road intersection.

Unfinished Bazaars at game end score the same, except completed cities are 1 point instead of 2.


The one Bazaar I scored with these rules managed to net me 6 points: it contained 3 cities and 0 houses. Seems promising, since it can score more points than a Cloister, but an opponent can partially "sabotage" it by surrounding it with "worthless" tiles.
 
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brian
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Yeah, the Bazaars were a big FAIL in my book as well.
 
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