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Subject: [POLLS] Who Are the Female Gamers and What Do They Think? rss

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Jean Rolfe
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Absolutely agree, I'm just more interested in the practical application than the gathering of information

Interesting point re creepy hadn't considered the fact that Tony's a bloke analyzing female gamers would be an issue, but then in my line of work we often come across organizations that only recruit from within their client group in order to ensure cooperation and buy in from those being targeted

It's a complex world and fascinating that a simple survey can cause such a diverse range of strong opinion

I'd like to see the analysis continue though, especially as so many of us have contributed

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Chief EGG Head
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Tony's polls and info don't seem creepy to me as most of it is game related and really just confirms what most women gamers already know-we like games. There are a lot more creepy things that go on here at BGG than this. I suppose I find them interesting for the same reason that many others do, being in the minority here on BGG it's always nice to find others like your self.
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Arne Thomi
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xethair wrote:
OK, at this point I am officially really tired of your incessant staticizing on BGG, and more importantly, feel collecting lists of females and polling/collating extensive personal information about them specifically is over the line, possibly even creepy and off-putting.

Back off please.


Ding Ding Ding Ding,

we have a winner in the category "Something bad happened and for the sake of it, I'm gonna piss on someone else's lawn". Of the trillion ways to phrase your criticism, you found the most offensive and inappropriate one by insinuating - almost accusing - a person you don't know (probably at all) with absurd because totally unbacked charges.
THAT is off-puting.
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Lynette
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1000rpm wrote:
I appreciate the comments (very much), but if 20% of people are upset by this then I don't want to continue, whatever I (or others) think of the people saying so.

This suddenly stopped being fun for me.

The data is public so anyone is welcome to carry on this thread and analysis.



I am sorry it stopped being fun for you.

*hugs*

I hope you later re-find the joy and continue though. Perhaps in a few months when the number of yes votes makes the percentage of no votes much smaller.

I look forward to the female analysis stuff with much more happy anticipation than the general everybody stuff. I always have. The main rankings mostly reflect the "male" perspective because active female BGGers are so out numbered. So your Geeklists were the only way ever see this kind of data.

I would also like to point out the person who found it "creepy" is a MAN. I wonder if the other 6 are also "guys" trying to out feminist the women. shake If so then yet again men will have taken away some of the fun for us here in the woman's forum. Which is a shame. Most men who lurk or contribute here are great. But sometimes.... *sigh* a few of them are beyond frustrating.

Thanks for the effort you have put in over the past several years here Tony. Really Really Really. Thank you.
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Lynette
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Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
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indigopotter wrote:
There have been 76 voluntary responses to your poll in just a few days - that says a lot!


Yes... just to highlight... it isn't 20% who object by a long shot.

Everybody who answered the poll obviously wanted you to continue as well. Those numbers are much higher than the other later poll would suggest.
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Faye Holliday

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I just wanted to say that I really ENJOY seeing the statistics of the women here on BGG. I love stats in general but because these included me, a part of the minority here on BGG I enjoyed knowing that much more. It was something fun and interesting. I am willing to bet it was a man who made that comment, and other men who joined in to vote for these polls to stop because they are "creepy" or whatever. That's a joke! I have no problem whatsoever and agree with what the majority of the other women have posted already in this thread.

I hope that it becomes fun for you again and you will continue doing stats such as these.

Also, I would like one of the 7 or however many of you that have voted against.... I would like to know your reasons on why these polls offend you in particular. I'm just sadden and confused why someone would think this is "creepy" or what have you.
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MMB
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1000rpm wrote:
I appreciate the comments (very much), but if 20% of people are upset by this then I don't want to continue, whatever I (or others) think of the people saying so.

This suddenly stopped being fun for me.

The data is public so anyone is welcome to carry on this thread and analysis.


Tony, I suspect that those that voted "yes" are not familiar with all your wonderful polls and the stats you contribute to this site and the gaming community.

I really wouldn't take those dissenters to heart.

I too would be curious to know what is wrong/offensive/whatever with this type of poll. So, any information from those voting "yes" would be welcome. You can gm me if you want to remain confidential.
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xethair wrote:
OK, at this point I am officially really tired of your incessant staticizing on BGG, and more importantly, feel collecting lists of females and polling/collating extensive personal information about them specifically is over the line, possibly even creepy and off-putting.

Back off please.


I think it's interesting to read content on BGG that's directed to women gamers. I'm not creeped out by it all. I regularly read things on BGG where I just roll my eyes and move on to the next thread. It's refreshing to see your geeklists and stats.
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Sarah D
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I have really enjoyed reading the stats you have collected, and don't find it creepy at all. I was actually happy/ kind of excited to know that my collection/interests were counted.

I did feel like I cheated somehow, since my collection is listed under my ID with the exact same games as my other half, who has them listed under his ID also. I rate them differently, but it might look like there are 2 copies out there, when it really is only one copy with 2 different ratings.

I hope you decide to continue. The poll is now up to 84% who think it is ok.
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Lawson
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1000rpm wrote:
1000rpm wrote:
xethair wrote:
OK, at this point I am officially really tired of your incessant staticizing on BGG, and more importantly, feel collecting lists of females and polling/collating extensive personal information about them specifically is over the line, possibly even creepy and off-putting.

Back off please.

Nice. This is voluntary and lots of people (specifically women) seem to be interested.
But I'll open it up to a vote:
Poll
Should I cease doing female-only stats/analysis/polls?
Yes
No
Don't Know
      114 answers
Poll created by 1000rpm

Okay, a majority want me to continue. But the minority who don't is big enough that I don't want to continue if I'm going to irritate/annoy that many people.

Personally I thought people on BGG were more adult than this, but looks like I was wrong.

I will still be continuing my incessant staticizing, but won't do any more female-centric stuff.


I am so very sorry to hear this.

If continuing with female-centric things isn't something you want to do, I completely understand.

For what it's worth, though, it's something that I have always appreciated and enjoyed.

And I find it an especially bitter pill to swallow that the person who raised a voice in objection, and set off a chain of events that makes things worse, rather than better, for this particular woman, is a man. Ugh.
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Elizabeth
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Another woman piping in to say I really enjoy and appreciate your female-centered stats! I don't see how your poll would make people uncomfortable, since it was voluntary, after all. I was more than happy to fill it out and was looking forward to your future stats.

As others have said, the general BGG stats are male-centered, and it was refreshing when you started sharing stats specific to women, since that information is not available elsewhere. I appreciate all the trouble you went to in order to make that happen, and I'm sorry that a few people managed to take the fun out of it for you.

It's understandable that you don't want to pursue it anymore, but it makes me sad. I will continue to hope that you will come back to it eventually!
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Tony Ackroyd
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Having taken a break from this for a while I’m ready to carry on. The vast majority want me to do so and no-one else has stepped in to do the analysis, so I can’t let the data go to waste. I’m willing to accept that most of the people who objected are misguided male knights in shining armour or are infected with the paranoia of modern day western society/the unthinking rudeness that the internet can bring out in people.

I don't know why I'm taking the time to justify myself, but why am I doing this analysis?
- I have two daughters who I’d like to be board gamers so I’m interested in what female gamers think and the types of games the majority of them enjoy
- Some female gamers responded to my previous analysis and wanted these questions asked
- I just enjoy analysing stuff

So, on to the analysis....
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Tony Ackroyd
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Analysis

Obviously this analysis relates to the women who answered the poll and I’m making the assumption that I can treat that as a representative sample of female users on this website. This analysis is based on 94 users having answered the poll. As background, only about 5% of this site’s users are female. The BGG User poll 2010 numbers are used as the comparison data for male gamers.

Female gamers are aged 26-45 (80%) this mirrors male gamers (75%+).
They are from the US (66%) or Europe (26%), compared to 55% of male users being from the US.
In the US the highest population of female gamers is California, but the highest concentrations (per capita and these are of dubious statistical significance) are in Oregan, Wisconsin and Michigan! California also had the highest population of male gamers.
They live with a partner (72%) and most don't have children (59%), if they do have children it is one (17%) or two (16%). Only 8% have three or more children. These are very similar numbers to the male gamers.
The majority (55%) are a bigger gamer than their partner with only 9% having a partner who is a bigger gamer than them! Now where was that "what games to get for my non-gamer husband" thread?!

Most (84%) have at least one regular gaming group and sizes vary greatly, with 29% of gaming groups being 10+ people, 18% just two people. Again very similar numbers to the male gamers.
83% are playing at least once a week, over a quarter game at least once every 3 days - almost identical to the guys.

Female gamers favourite parts of the Geek are Geeklists (30%), Game Pages (25%) and Game Forums (19%). This is very similar to the guys, except they had geeklists in 3rd with 18%.
Just under half reliably log their game plays on BGG - very similar to the guys.
Just under half of them have 100+ games and 25% have 200+ (the same pattern as the guys).

Strategy, Co-op, Family, Standard Card games and Co-ops are the most popular, with Strategy the clear favourite game type, especially with non-US female gamers and those without children.

The US female gamers are slightly older on average, with 42% aged 40+. Rest of the World (ROW) gamers have 41% aged 21-30. No female gamers aged 20 or younger answered the poll.
Having children significantly reduces the playing of Strategy games, but had no impact on how often games got played and didn’t mean that most games that got played were children’s games.
US female gamers play less often than ROW (Rest of World) gamers
Living with a partner means you get to play games a lot more often, with a third of those not living with a partner playing less than once a week.

So overall a lot of the behaviours of female gamers are (in statistical terms) virtually identical to the male gamers on this site.

Lets look at game types and see the difference between male and female gamers.
Strategy games are clearly both sexes favourite (54%/55%) and virtually all enjoy them (97%/94%).

Game types more women like than men (absolute differences, i.e. 80% of female gamers enjoy co-ops, compared to 73% of men = +7%): Word (+25%), Abstract (+15%), Party (+13%), Family (+12%), Standard Card Games (+9%), Co-ops (+7%), Kids (+5%).

Dexterity is the same with 43% of both sexes enjoying it and Online games are only 2% different, Auction 5% different.

Game types more men like than women:
Wargames (-31%), RPGs (-17%), Video Games (-14%), CCGs (-14%), Negotiation (-10%), Ameritrash/Thematic (-7%).

These align with the results from the geeklist analysis.
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Diane H
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WAHOO!! Way to go Tony, I like the way you think, glad to see you are back. I would wager an easy bet that your daughters will be excellent game players, well, thats my analysis at least. Have fun!
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MMB
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YAY TONY!!!
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Elizabeth
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I'm so happy to see that you are back! It's very cool to see that the women who responded to your poll have so much in common with male gamers. And it was also interesting to see the differences.

(Another thought I had on your earlier question of whether to pursue this analysis--there is the possibility that a few of those discouraging voters didn't interpret the word "cease" correctly and voted the opposite of what they meant. I know some people who have misunderstood that word before. Of course, it's also possible that those voters really meant it and don't like this analysis, but obviously they can choose not to participate.)

Thanks for continuing your analysis!
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Judy Krauss
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but I'm not the only one
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1000rpm wrote:
The majority (55%) are a bigger gamer than their partner with only 9% having a partner who is a bigger gamer than them! Now where was that "what games to get for my non-gamer husband" thread?!


Partner does not necessarily mean "husband" or even "male".
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Tony Ackroyd
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Jude wrote:
1000rpm wrote:
The majority (55%) are a bigger gamer than their partner with only 9% having a partner who is a bigger gamer than them! Now where was that "what games to get for my non-gamer husband" thread?!


Partner does not necessarily mean "husband" or even "male".

True! But I was actually thinking of a real thread that I vaguely remembered seeing recently.... found it now:
What to do when the non-gamer is the husband?
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jood shine
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thanks for pointing that out jude!
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ellie collier
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Suggestions for future iterations:

#16 (where from) - I assumed you wanted to know my birth state, not where I'm currently living. You could make that clearer and/or add a question about where you currently live.

#17 (who's the bigger gamer) - I balked a little at what felt like a judgement to me (and this may just be my own insecurities). I wanted to add, "sure my husband may be a bigger gamer than I am, but I'm still a bigger gamer than many." Maybe there could be another question rating how seriously 'gamer' is part of your identity? But at the same time, I don't know if it's necessary. I guess it depends what it's trying to get at. After I voted I saw that I am in the minority though and that was interesting.

#18 (how big is your group) - I have 3 separate main groups, each of different size. I erred on the large size. Not sure of an easy fix for this one.

#20 (where do you bgg) - I thought this should have been a checkbox rather than a radio button. My answer is really RSS feeds for specific threads and individual game pages, but since RSS is the thing I use the most, I chose other. I also wasn't sure whether 'game forums' was what I just consider the forums, or whether it was a specific subsection or delineation I was less aware of. I didn't know what RSP was either. I tend to use the site sporadically. In my RSS I follow my local area threads, then I come on to check specific games either after playing or before buying. Then even less often I spend several hours updating my collection and ratings, looking at suggestions, reading reviews and reading women in gaming related threads like this one :).

#23 (what types) - I was not super confident in my knowledge of each of those descriptors. I think some example games after each type would have been helpful.

#24 (which fave) - It was odd for me to see Ameritrash but not Euro since those are typically used in conjunction in my circles. I assumed strategy was getting at the same thing. Also it seemed some types were called out while others weren't. E.g. no specific option for 'worker placement,' or 'games that have a traitor' (which I'm pretty sure are my husband's two favorites. Not sure what differentiates a 'video game' from an 'online game' (where do MMORPGs fall? Were you trying to get at things like Farmville? Or just whether we own consoles? What about cell phone games? And I realize this is more about boardgames, but since there were some video game questions it made me think of these distinctions too.)

Thanks for all your work!
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ellie collier
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Follow up on #23/24 - Were you using the categories from bgg and I just didn't notice? I'm looking at some games now and see that there are set tags for subdomain, category and mechanics. It might be cool to have 3 questions, one for each, and use the bgg vocabulary. Then you can also just use their descriptors:

Which of the following BEST characterizes this game?
Abstract Strategy Games (like Chess or Go)
Customizable Games (CCGs, CMGs, LCGs, etc)
Thematic Games (emphasis on narrative)
Family Games (fun for kids and adults)
Children's Games (best for younger kids)
Party Games (few rules, lots of laughs)
Strategy Games (more complex games)
Wargames (conflict simulation, etc.)
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Victoria Osborne
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actually i think that getting information about female gamers is very useful. I enjoy looking at the stastics, but even more to the point. Game developers can use the information to develope games that will appeal more to both men and women and maybe draw in more women.


I have no problem with it at all. We are still different rare and unique in this subculture. do not stop taking polls
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Julia Ziobro
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I hear you're maintaining a list of female gamers on the Geek. Please add me. meeple
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Julia Ziobro
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1000rpm wrote:
Having taken a break from this for a while I’m ready to carry on. The vast majority want me to do so and no-one else has stepped in to do the analysis, so I can’t let the data go to waste. I’m willing to accept that most of the people who objected are misguided male knights in shining armour or are infected with the paranoia of modern day western society/the unthinking rudeness that the internet can bring out in people.

I don't know why I'm taking the time to justify myself, but why am I doing this analysis?
- I have two daughters who I’d like to be board gamers so I’m interested in what female gamers think and the types of games the majority of them enjoy
- Some female gamers responded to my previous analysis and wanted these questions asked
- I just enjoy analysing stuff

So, on to the analysis....

Thanks, Tony. I just found this forum and this thread yesterday (and why didn't I go looking for this forum a long time ago? I don't know... but for years the only way I used the Geek was to see what other people thought about games I was considering buying).

It is really obvious to me that you are one of the good guys out there meeple who are interested in these issues for the "right" reasons.

I have a 12-year old daughter who is NOT a big gamer and I'm always trying to figure out why. I think a lot of it is being very busy with school and being a perfectionist about that work, and then being a perfectionist about dressage and the (silly) horses owned by her trainer, and therefore, not having time and energy for much else, so I haven't yet given up hope.

I love the analysis you're providing and appreciate it very much. Carry on, good sir!
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Mrs Smith
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This is my chance to convey something meaningful! Darn. Wasted it.
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Tahanet09 wrote:
Hi, Tony. You can add me to your list of lady gamers.


Me too
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